Sky rocketing fuel prices

Floater said:
In that case, there should be a higher than normal rate of cancer among Hydro workers and people in the industry.

No such thing exists.

Anyway, off topic.
Click to expand...

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/dac9/0ae5ad76709e04f9392cbf5928f0c565a345.pdf

Not sure you can be absolute in saying no such thing exists given there are studies like this one looking at 31,000 Ontario Electric Utility Workers and cancer rates. Lots of research and debate and dug in position on both sides of it. You are right however, it is off topic so I am out on further debate.
 
Rockfish said:
In the long term it would also be a driving force in increasing the price of fuel to the average BC'er, to the extent we currently get a significant chunk of our fuel from Alberta, as the people of BC and Alberta would be competing more with Asia for the cost of fuel. You can see why BC'ers are conflicted. In exchange for being good neighbors to our friends to the east, we get to accept the risks and costs associated with the expanded pipeline and increased tanker traffic and get to pay higher fuel costs once it is all in place because of the increased competition, without the offsetting benefit to our economy that Alberta would get.

On the other hand BC has been happy to benefit from and to let the people of Alberta accept the heavy environmental damage and costs, like effects on health, in order to do all that extensive hydro carbon extraction without having to screw up our own province tapping much of our own oil and gas reserves, although the oil would be cleaner than Alberta's Tar Sands. I am not sure people know BC has oil and gas reserves both on land and off shore that are going undeveloped, I suspect because of environmental concerns.

I am happy to leave it in the ground and under the sea as in a 100 years or so our children's children's children may well want it for things that have not even been invented yet such as new plastics and medications. As some have indicated fuel is the least valuable use for it. If we ever really needed it however, I think there is enough to keep BC fuel self sufficient for a long time although we currently lack the refining capacity to be self reliant. Long term our transportation needs will increasingly be met by electricity and BC has world class potential to develop additional hydro, wind, tidal and even some geothermal power, which one day we may be exporting to Alberta, assuming they are not protesting new power lines, after all, they do cause cancer if you live close to them.
Click to expand...
I think you hit the nail right on the head Rockfish. B.C. should start musing about drilling our vast offshore reserves thereby making the Alberta tarsands uneconomical. Why should we let them ruin our coastal environment when we could do it ourselves and at least reap the rewards for the risk. A good neighbor doesn't **** in the others front lawn.
 
terrin said:
I think you hit the nail right on the head Rockfish. B.C. should start musing about drilling our vast offshore reserves thereby making the Alberta tarsands uneconomical. Why should we let them ruin our coastal environment when we could do it ourselves and at least reap the rewards for the risk. A good neighbor doesn't **** in the others front lawn.
Click to expand...



200w.gif
 
 
All this talk about keeping Alberta’s dirty oil out of B.C. is rediculous, you guys plan on buying aviation fuel from China and build a pipeline under the Fraser River for frig sake, increasing tanker traffic and all other environmental concerns and no one in B.C. is protesting or bad mouthing that?

Anyways this thread was not started to **** and moan over a pipeline etc.... just wanted to see how this huge increase is affecting the average guy this fishing season is all.
 
Drink said:
Good question.
I have a call into the Canadian border for clarification. Will get back to you with the official policy.
Click to expand...

Finally received a response from Canadian Border Services. Called them as well for clarification about built in gas tanks in a boat.

In short everything from Jerry cans to telling them you filled up your trailered boat with built in gas tanks faces an excise duty often between $0.10 – $0.11/per litre. As for the boat not worth it unless you enter the USA by water which is not practical for me. There seems in my view to be some leeway for jerry cans for the number of people I see who transport extra fuel this way. 1 jerry can I expect would be simply ignored and possibly 2 but CBSA of course won't officially tell you that. The lineup would be out the door and CBSA would be overwhelmed with the process.

In accordance with the Customs Act, the Customs Tariff, and the Excise Tax Act, gasoline acquired in the United States, whether imported in a vehicle tank, a slip tank, containers commonly known as “jerry cans”, or any container other than the manufacturer-installed fuel tank(s), is subject to full assessment of duty and taxes by the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA). It is recommended that you keep a separate receipt for the cost of the fuel pumped in the slip tank or other non-manufacturer-installed containers to facilitate the assessment of taxes.


Fuel/Gas is duty-free, regardless of where it was manufactured.


Please note that, where applicable, the goods and services tax (GST), the provincial sales tax (PST), or the harmonized sales tax (HST), are calculated on the duty-paid value of the price you have paid for the goods converted into Canadian currency. An excise duty often between $0.10 – $0.11/per litre would also be applied:

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-commerce/tariff-tarif/archive/tn-amt/tn31-eng.html

(Please note that although the publication has been archived, the information is still relevant)


In addition, please be advised that Transport Canada puts conditions on the manner of transporting dangerous goods. Therefore, it is recommended that you contact Transport Canada for information on transporting excess fuel in a safe and approved method.


For more information on what you can bring back with you when returning to Canada, we recommend that you consult the CBSA’s publication entitled I Declare, which can be found on the CBSA’s Web site at:

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/declare-eng.html


Should you require additional assistance with your inquiry, we recommend that you contact the Border Information Service (BIS). You can access the BIS line free of charge throughout Canada by calling 1-800-461-9999. If you are calling from outside Canada, you can access the BIS line by calling either 204-983-3500 or 506-636-5064 (long-distance charges will apply). If you call during regular business hours (8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Monday to Friday, except holidays), you can speak to an officer by pressing “0” at any time after you have made a selection of either English or French.


Thank you for contacting the Canada Border Services Agency.


-----Original Message-----
 
I find it ridiculous that our country has a huge resource that is in demand that we cannot benefit from. All the special interest groups have far too much influence in Canada. Anywhere else and the product would be getting to market and benefiting all citizens at the same time. What a joke.
 
What it shows is Canadian and US refiners that use Alberta as a crude source are making huge margins on gasoline sales right now. Getting their crude for nothing and selling their gasoline at the same prices as the refiners that are forced to use WTI.

Then of course transportation and taxes account for any pricing discrepancies between Alberta gasoline/ Northern BC gasoline and Coastal gasoline prices.

No big conspiracies just supply/demand dynamics on a world scale.

What should be abundantly clear is if we are going to rape the environment with the TAR sands then we should have pipelines so we can get world prices and maximise our resource profitability.

Also is crude by rail a better alternative??? here is a snippet from an oil company im invested in. Increasing crude by rail, down the fraser river does not sound like a better alternative to me, This will also increase the tanker traffic!!!!

"The price received for our heavy oil sales in Canada is based on the Western Canadian Select ("WCS") benchmark price which trades
at a discount to WTI due to the quality and lack of egress for Canadian grades of crude oil. Pipeline outages in late 2017 have
compounded existing transportation constraints and have resulted in increased crude inventories in Western Canada and a widening
of the WCS heavy oil differential during Q1/2018. The WCS heavy oil differential averaged US$24.28/bbl in Q1/2018 as compared to
US$14.57/bbl in Q1/2017. Increased crude by rail volumes will help to mitigate this recent widening of the WCS differential which is
now estimated to average approximately US$20/bbl for the remainder of 2018."
 
wildmanyeah said:
What it shows is Canadian and US refiners that use Alberta as a crude source are making huge margins on gasoline sales right now. Getting their crude for nothing and selling their gasoline at the same prices as the refiners that are forced to use WTI.

Then of course transportation and taxes account for any pricing discrepancies between Alberta gasoline/ Northern BC gasoline and Coastal gasoline prices.

No big conspiracies just supply/demand dynamics on a world scale.

What should be abundantly clear is if we are going to rape the environment with the TAR sands then we should have pipelines so we can get world prices and maximise our resource profitability.

Also is crude by rail a better alternative??? here is a snippet from an oil company im invested in. Increasing crude by rail, down the fraser river does not sound like a better alternative to me, This will also increase the tanker traffic!!!!

"The price received for our heavy oil sales in Canada is based on the Western Canadian Select ("WCS") benchmark price which trades
at a discount to WTI due to the quality and lack of egress for Canadian grades of crude oil. Pipeline outages in late 2017 have
compounded existing transportation constraints and have resulted in increased crude inventories in Western Canada and a widening
of the WCS heavy oil differential during Q1/2018. The WCS heavy oil differential averaged US$24.28/bbl in Q1/2018 as compared to
US$14.57/bbl in Q1/2017. Increased crude by rail volumes will help to mitigate this recent widening of the WCS differential which is
now estimated to average approximately US$20/bbl for the remainder of 2018."
Click to expand...




Exactly! That's why there is so much foreign funding going into the "Against KMP" there are Billions of dollars at stake for the US refineries.
 
Drink said:
Finally received a response from Canadian Border Services. Called them as well for clarification about built in gas tanks in a boat.

In short everything from Jerry cans to telling them you filled up your trailered boat with built in gas tanks faces an excise duty often between $0.10 – $0.11/per litre. As for the boat not worth it unless you enter the USA by water which is not practical for me. There seems in my view to be some leeway for jerry cans for the number of people I see who transport extra fuel this way. 1 jerry can I expect would be simply ignored and possibly 2 but CBSA of course won't officially tell you that. The lineup would be out the door and CBSA would be overwhelmed with the process.

In accordance with the Customs Act, the Customs Tariff, and the Excise Tax Act, gasoline acquired in the United States, whether imported in a vehicle tank, a slip tank, containers commonly known as “jerry cans”, or any container other than the manufacturer-installed fuel tank(s), is subject to full assessment of duty and taxes by the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA). It is recommended that you keep a separate receipt for the cost of the fuel pumped in the slip tank or other non-manufacturer-installed containers to facilitate the assessment of taxes.


Fuel/Gas is duty-free, regardless of where it was manufactured.


Please note that, where applicable, the goods and services tax (GST), the provincial sales tax (PST), or the harmonized sales tax (HST), are calculated on the duty-paid value of the price you have paid for the goods converted into Canadian currency. An excise duty often between $0.10 – $0.11/per litre would also be applied:

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-commerce/tariff-tarif/archive/tn-amt/tn31-eng.html

(Please note that although the publication has been archived, the information is still relevant)


In addition, please be advised that Transport Canada puts conditions on the manner of transporting dangerous goods. Therefore, it is recommended that you contact Transport Canada for information on transporting excess fuel in a safe and approved method.


For more information on what you can bring back with you when returning to Canada, we recommend that you consult the CBSA’s publication entitled I Declare, which can be found on the CBSA’s Web site at:

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/declare-eng.html


Should you require additional assistance with your inquiry, we recommend that you contact the Border Information Service (BIS). You can access the BIS line free of charge throughout Canada by calling 1-800-461-9999. If you are calling from outside Canada, you can access the BIS line by calling either 204-983-3500 or 506-636-5064 (long-distance charges will apply). If you call during regular business hours (8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Monday to Friday, except holidays), you can speak to an officer by pressing “0” at any time after you have made a selection of either English or French.


Thank you for contacting the Canada Border Services Agency.


-----Original Message-----
Click to expand...


I was asked once by canadian border security if I had filled up my truck on my way back from Sumas. I hadn't and replied as such... not sure what they would have done if I had said I had filled it up....
Seems pretty petty. Last time I went through and paid taxes and duty on some stuff I picked up, they made me aware that I had to include the US tax paid on the goods in the US as well on the value of the goods. Nice... We get to pay tax on the amount of foreign tax charged as well...
Free trade? Not for the average Joe imo...
 
wildmanyeah said:
What it shows is Canadian and US refiners that use Alberta as a crude source are making huge margins on gasoline sales right now. Getting their crude for nothing and selling their gasoline at the same prices as the refiners that are forced to use WTI.

Then of course transportation and taxes account for any pricing discrepancies between Alberta gasoline/ Northern BC gasoline and Coastal gasoline prices.

No big conspiracies just supply/demand dynamics on a world scale.

What should be abundantly clear is if we are going to rape the environment with the TAR sands then we should have pipelines so we can get world prices and maximise our resource profitability.

Also is crude by rail a better alternative??? here is a snippet from an oil company im invested in. Increasing crude by rail, down the fraser river does not sound like a better alternative to me, This will also increase the tanker traffic!!!!

"The price received for our heavy oil sales in Canada is based on the Western Canadian Select ("WCS") benchmark price which trades
at a discount to WTI due to the quality and lack of egress for Canadian grades of crude oil. Pipeline outages in late 2017 have
compounded existing transportation constraints and have resulted in increased crude inventories in Western Canada and a widening
of the WCS heavy oil differential during Q1/2018. The WCS heavy oil differential averaged US$24.28/bbl in Q1/2018 as compared to
US$14.57/bbl in Q1/2017. Increased crude by rail volumes will help to mitigate this recent widening of the WCS differential which is
now estimated to average approximately US$20/bbl for the remainder of 2018."
Click to expand...

So we should increase the supply of cheap bitumen? If there was ever an argument that we don’t need even more oil flowing out of country this post proves it.
 
Clint r said:
So we should increase the supply of cheap bitumen? If there was ever an argument that we don’t need even more oil flowing out of country this post proves it.
Click to expand...


New markets will recive better pricing. Once at tide water pricing will be WTI at a minimum.

When you only have one customer..... They set the pricing
 
ILHG said:
New markets will recive better pricing. Once at tide water pricing will be WTI at a minimum.

When you only have one customer..... They set the pricing
Click to expand...

Yep I agree. That statement also reafirms my belief we (bc) need to find an alternate source to purchase refined products from. (Like south of the border) Somewhere where we won’t be held hostage when an opposing govt doesn’t agree with our environmental/business standards. Shut them right out of the loop. Lower prices for us and a lesson taught that you do what you want in your province but keep your mess out of mine.

It’s not about KM for me anymore. It’s about notleys big mouth and smear campaign against MY ELECTED GOVT.
 
Last edited:
Clint r said:
Yep I agree. That statement also reafirms my belief we (bc) need to find an alternate source to purchase refined products from. (Like south of the border)
Click to expand...

Where do you propose we put a new refinery in BC to supply the lower mainland? What crude source do you propose to use? and delivery method do you want to use to get it to market (lower mainland)?
 
wildmanyeah said:
Where do you propose we put a new refinery in BC to supply the lower mainland? What crude source do you propose to use? and delivery method do you want to use to get it to market (lower mainland)?
Click to expand...

Buy refined product from theUS. It’s obvious. No supply problems and no dealing with a wing nut. Only Id stay buying from the US from now on. Hit em where it hurts like they’re threatening to do to us.
 
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