Should I ground wire on my Kicker Motor?
- Thread starter JAC
- Start date
Island Fish Lifter
Well-Known Member
Black boxes are a waste of $. Spend it on zincs and youll be fine. Not sure what you mean about grounding your kicker.... Is it elec start and/or have a charging system? If so yes.. If not, whats the point.
Fill the dam tub!
Fill the dam tub!
Charlie
Well-Known Member
Grounding your kicker, why? Like IFL asked, is it charging your battery? If not, NO! [:0]
It pobably would do more harm than good and just sets you up more for potential Electrolysis.</u>
Yea, this is a quote!
"In the old days, the technique of bonding everything together worked okay. In its defense, the "bond everything together" approach makes your boat less sensitive to electrolytic corrosion that can result from faulty wiring on your own boat</u>. The problem is, the "bond everything" approach leaves your boat totally defenseless to wiring errors in nearby boats and nearby industry, that cause stray DC currents to run through the water</u>.
Today the technique of bonding everything together would still work fine if your boat spent all of its time on the high seas, in remote anchorages, or in marinas that were wired perfectly and in which all of the nearby yachts were wired perfectly. Having underwater metal bonded together in crowded marina's today, however, is asking for expensive trouble.</u> As outlined above, it is avoidable trouble. It is possible, with careful wiring and a few capacitors, to have the best of all worlds, good RF and lightning grounds, ABYC approved DC and AC grounds, and security against electrolytic corrosion caused by hot marinas."
The whole article is here: http://www.sailmail.com/grounds.htm
Black Box? I have a friend that will probably "sell" you his? As he never bothers to turn it on? Have you tested to see if you even have a problem? Most people don't! One of the best things you can do is... believe it or not... keep your zincs above 50 percent. I change my zincs prior to July 1 every year. I went almost 2 years once, as I didn't think they needed it... it took me 6 months to figure out why I wasn't catching fish? I couldn't catch a fish to save my life. Changed my zincs... wella, problem solved! [:I]
How To Measure the Natural Electrolysis Voltage on Your Boat
Yea, another quote!
"A voltmeter with a scale of zero to one volt will measure the natural electrolysis. Place the ground lead of the meter on the motor or the battery ground. Place the positive lead on the stainless steel downrigger cable while it is in the water. The downrigger must be unplugged. The voltage you measure on the volt meter is your boat’s natural electrolysis voltage. When the stainless steel downrigger cable is lowered into the water, the natural ionization between the cable and the boat creates a positive charge of 0.7 to 0.9 volts in saltwater and 0.3 to 0.6 volts in fresh water. This natural voltage is dependent upon salinity and mineral content of the water. Your actual voltage may vary. "
A positive is a good thing, if its not at least 0.7 the first thing you want to do is check, clean or change those zincs! After that if it isn't in that range you could have lot more of a problem than needing a black box! [B)]
It pobably would do more harm than good and just sets you up more for potential Electrolysis.</u>
Yea, this is a quote!
"In the old days, the technique of bonding everything together worked okay. In its defense, the "bond everything together" approach makes your boat less sensitive to electrolytic corrosion that can result from faulty wiring on your own boat</u>. The problem is, the "bond everything" approach leaves your boat totally defenseless to wiring errors in nearby boats and nearby industry, that cause stray DC currents to run through the water</u>.
Today the technique of bonding everything together would still work fine if your boat spent all of its time on the high seas, in remote anchorages, or in marinas that were wired perfectly and in which all of the nearby yachts were wired perfectly. Having underwater metal bonded together in crowded marina's today, however, is asking for expensive trouble.</u> As outlined above, it is avoidable trouble. It is possible, with careful wiring and a few capacitors, to have the best of all worlds, good RF and lightning grounds, ABYC approved DC and AC grounds, and security against electrolytic corrosion caused by hot marinas."
The whole article is here: http://www.sailmail.com/grounds.htm
Black Box? I have a friend that will probably "sell" you his? As he never bothers to turn it on? Have you tested to see if you even have a problem? Most people don't! One of the best things you can do is... believe it or not... keep your zincs above 50 percent. I change my zincs prior to July 1 every year. I went almost 2 years once, as I didn't think they needed it... it took me 6 months to figure out why I wasn't catching fish? I couldn't catch a fish to save my life. Changed my zincs... wella, problem solved! [:I]
How To Measure the Natural Electrolysis Voltage on Your Boat
Yea, another quote!
"A voltmeter with a scale of zero to one volt will measure the natural electrolysis. Place the ground lead of the meter on the motor or the battery ground. Place the positive lead on the stainless steel downrigger cable while it is in the water. The downrigger must be unplugged. The voltage you measure on the volt meter is your boat’s natural electrolysis voltage. When the stainless steel downrigger cable is lowered into the water, the natural ionization between the cable and the boat creates a positive charge of 0.7 to 0.9 volts in saltwater and 0.3 to 0.6 volts in fresh water. This natural voltage is dependent upon salinity and mineral content of the water. Your actual voltage may vary. "
A positive is a good thing, if its not at least 0.7 the first thing you want to do is check, clean or change those zincs! After that if it isn't in that range you could have lot more of a problem than needing a black box! [B)]
Peahead
Well-Known Member
Those are interesting quotes that Charlie has brought forward, and its especially interesting because its another point of view that is quite different from the "must bond" everything thought.
I totally agree that changing zincs regularily is the best advice anyone can give. My marina used to have pretty bad electrical leakage into the water and the marina customers were losing their zincs really fast. Its clear that the zincs were working for them and protecting them as long as they were aware and replaced the zincs regularily. That situation was remedied and now the zinc anodes on boats in the marina last much longer, before they need repacement. Should a boat's good bonding be eliminated because the marina ( or other boat) is leaking electrical into the water......hmmmm, I am not sure that makes sense to me. My understanding is that other boats would have to be fairly close to you to effect your boat ? Why wouldn't you just go the route of keeping a well bonded boat and monitor the zincs regularily and replacing as necessary?
Here's a quote from a book written by Dick Pool titled "Downriggers". Here's what he says:
"Every boat operated in saltwater should have two features to protect the critical metal parts from electrolytic corrosion. The first is a good bonding and the second is a good set of sacrificial zinc anodes. Bonding means that all the metal parts which are in contact with saltwater are connected together with a wire. If you look in the bildge of most modern boats you will usually see a large copper wire that connects the engine to each metal fitting on the boat. This is bonding. If you don't have it you are in for lots of problems besides not catching fish"
I totally agree that changing zincs regularily is the best advice anyone can give. My marina used to have pretty bad electrical leakage into the water and the marina customers were losing their zincs really fast. Its clear that the zincs were working for them and protecting them as long as they were aware and replaced the zincs regularily. That situation was remedied and now the zinc anodes on boats in the marina last much longer, before they need repacement. Should a boat's good bonding be eliminated because the marina ( or other boat) is leaking electrical into the water......hmmmm, I am not sure that makes sense to me. My understanding is that other boats would have to be fairly close to you to effect your boat ? Why wouldn't you just go the route of keeping a well bonded boat and monitor the zincs regularily and replacing as necessary?
Here's a quote from a book written by Dick Pool titled "Downriggers". Here's what he says:
"Every boat operated in saltwater should have two features to protect the critical metal parts from electrolytic corrosion. The first is a good bonding and the second is a good set of sacrificial zinc anodes. Bonding means that all the metal parts which are in contact with saltwater are connected together with a wire. If you look in the bildge of most modern boats you will usually see a large copper wire that connects the engine to each metal fitting on the boat. This is bonding. If you don't have it you are in for lots of problems besides not catching fish"
danthewire
Active Member
So what about the boats that don't sit in a marina and are taken out and home every time? I can understand where he is coming from,its an interesting observation.BUT The whole idea is for your zincs to be sacrificed not your boat parts.Dan
directmule
Member
Quote: (How To Measure the Natural Electrolysis Voltage on Your Boat
Yea, another quote!
"A voltmeter with a scale of zero to one volt will measure the natural electrolysis. Place the ground lead of the meter on the motor or the battery ground. Place the positive lead on the stainless steel downrigger cable while it is in the water. The downrigger must be unplugged. The voltage you measure on the volt meter is your boat’s natural electrolysis voltage. When the stainless steel downrigger cable is lowered into the water, the natural ionization between the cable and the boat creates a positive charge of 0.7 to 0.9 volts in saltwater and 0.3 to 0.6 volts in fresh water. This natural voltage is dependent upon salinity and mineral content of the water. Your actual voltage may vary. "
A positive is a good thing, if its not at least 0.7 the first thing you want to do is check, clean or change those zincs! After that if it isn't in that range you could have lot more of a problem than needing a black box! )
Question: Does this apply to an aluminum boat?
Yea, another quote!
"A voltmeter with a scale of zero to one volt will measure the natural electrolysis. Place the ground lead of the meter on the motor or the battery ground. Place the positive lead on the stainless steel downrigger cable while it is in the water. The downrigger must be unplugged. The voltage you measure on the volt meter is your boat’s natural electrolysis voltage. When the stainless steel downrigger cable is lowered into the water, the natural ionization between the cable and the boat creates a positive charge of 0.7 to 0.9 volts in saltwater and 0.3 to 0.6 volts in fresh water. This natural voltage is dependent upon salinity and mineral content of the water. Your actual voltage may vary. "
A positive is a good thing, if its not at least 0.7 the first thing you want to do is check, clean or change those zincs! After that if it isn't in that range you could have lot more of a problem than needing a black box! )
Question: Does this apply to an aluminum boat?
Peahead
Well-Known Member
Ok fair enough Charlie. I was reading Dick Pool's stuff and you read Stan Honey's whole article . I hadn't so I did - just now. OK OK OK .....I see what you mean. The whole article explains things well. For others reading this , both Stan Honey and Dick Pool are Engineers according to their credit info.
It was great info and even though I am not a marine electrician or engineer ,I got most of it. It does answer my earlier question about a boats zincs protecting the submerged metal parts from "hot" marinas. It explains that " your zinc is incapable of supplying enough galvanic potential to protect against substantial DC currents that may be flowing in the water in a marina", from other sources. It explains that in these "hot" marinas "the electric current will take the lower resistance path offered by your boat in preference to the water near your boat, and the current will flow into one of your bits of metal, through your bonding wires, and then out another bit of metal. The anodic bit of metal or thru-hull that has the misfortune to be on the "out current" side of the current running through your bonding system will also become "out metal" and will disappear".I beleive my boat may already have the best of both worlds as it is properly bonded for out at sea and with motors down but it should be also be fine when it is at rest in the marina as it rests with no metal touching water ( except for one small bit of engine bracket that has no other "out current" side ) I'd rather not have to get into the soldering of capacitors thing:
("By using capacitors to block DC connections in a few key areas, it is possible to have perfect ground systems for AC, DC, RF, lightning, and corrosion, and have a boat that is immune to stray DC currents that are traveling through the water in "hot marinas.")
Charlie
Well-Known Member
Yep,
And, anyone with a Bravo III lower unit, needs to be aware of this. My Bravo III lower unit had the "misfortune" of being the "out current" side and it did try to "literly" disappear! I had an opportunity of finding this out the hard way in 2000; Mercury had the privledge of replacing my lower unit twice. After the second time Mercury and I had a VERY long chat! I also, sold that boat, due to this specific reason! But, I wanted a larger boat anyway!
P
poco
Guest
not sure about electrolysis,zinc on leg of outboard but lift leg when left at moorage,is this the best move. also does fresh water help. and does it make a differance if im plugged in or is it the boats around me
P
phnapa
Guest
If you are looking at a box go back a few weeks on the posts there was alot of discussion about it, and bonding. U will get every view on them
wolf
Well-Known Member
poco if your leg will COMPLETLY come out of the water go ahead BUT if it is touching the water in any way its pointless as now you dont have the zincs working at all and your going to have grief,.
I personally leave my leg left in the water and just clean it every week or so as mine wont completlly come out.
It really makes me laugh when you see all these motors lifted out touching water the its the worst thing you can do!!!!all of you that do are you flushing with fresh water???? me thinks not.
All your doing is letting the salt water crystalize and will have cooling problems later on because every day you lift it out without flushing, it just keeps building up of salt in all the tubes and cooling ports which in turn creates our worst enemy CORROSION!!!.
My best friend who works on every marine engine has always told me leave it in the water as the water stays in and doesnt drain out.So you have to clean your leg now and then small chore compared to a wrecked engine electrolisis not only pits outside but will pit the internal parts of your leg as well. let your zincs work for you thats what there there for!!!!
Good luck Wolf
Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com
I personally leave my leg left in the water and just clean it every week or so as mine wont completlly come out.
It really makes me laugh when you see all these motors lifted out touching water the its the worst thing you can do!!!!all of you that do are you flushing with fresh water???? me thinks not.
All your doing is letting the salt water crystalize and will have cooling problems later on because every day you lift it out without flushing, it just keeps building up of salt in all the tubes and cooling ports which in turn creates our worst enemy CORROSION!!!.
My best friend who works on every marine engine has always told me leave it in the water as the water stays in and doesnt drain out.So you have to clean your leg now and then small chore compared to a wrecked engine electrolisis not only pits outside but will pit the internal parts of your leg as well. let your zincs work for you thats what there there for!!!!
Good luck Wolf
Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com
TenMile
Well-Known Member
Amen brother!!! I own a Bravo III and enjoy the pleasure of replacing the aluminum anodes every 6 months!!! Great leg in many ways and that is the only maintenance it requires but its a pain.
I did learn however that Merc makes a unit for these legs that can be affixed to any hull called a Mercathode. It works on the exact principle of the Black Box but runs all of the time. It makes sure that the boat's voltage is between 850mV and 1100mV while in the water. Voltage above 1100mV causes electrolysis and below 850mV causes pitting from an under voltage condition. The Mercathode can be attached to any hull and runs off your battery full time (shore power or a charger is required to maintain it or it will drain the battery). One of the interesting benefits of the Mercathode is that it also provides you with the capability of testing the actual in-water voltage surrounding your boat.
Finally there is a great Corrosion Protection Service Bulletin that Mercruiser published. It details how to test any boat, step by step for proper protection (email me if you want it or Google Mercruiser Corrosion Protection). It is a great read for any boat owner regardless if you are an I/O or OB owner.
TenMile
<'((((><
Similar threads
