seal cull

beemer

Well-Known Member
"find a way to control the impact of these animals on our fish stocks!" Hey searun your attitude exemplifies why nature is so screwed up right now! Humans have tinkered so badly with the food chain in the last 50 years that the oceans are dying and completely out of balance. Let old mother nature take its course and things will sort themselves out. I am the last guy that likes getting a nice fish ripped off my line , but I can go to Thriftys and buy one , seals can't.
 
I think that is one of the problems - sometimes mother nature can't run its course the way it is supposed to. Problem is, with the transient whale population so thin, the seals have essentially no predators - so their population can explode and salmon take the heat. There is an imbalance in nature and it won't be solved without us IMH

You think its bad now, if all the tree hugger types have their way with this don't mess with nature thing, the seals will probably 10 fold in 10 years.

That's just me though, based on what I've seen in the last 25 years in the water...what do I know?????
 
beemer, we are part of nature. It is a good thing we do not let mother nature run her course because the techniquue she uses is feast or famine. Long slow deaths are the tools she uses. While mankind is responsible for some "extinctions" we are not responsible for the the majority of them.
 
Agreed Islandboy we are part of nature and the food chain . In my opinion we often over react to problems that can be easily solved by doing nothing. I am by no means a tree hugger , but I have seen firsthand the decimation we have done to the ocean in the last 25 years because we thought we could "manage" it. Overharvesting , pollution and just plain ignorance have led us to where we are.

Hey searun I apoligize for the strong words , bad cup of coffee.
 
Islandboy,

You wrote, "While mankind is responsible for some "extinctions" we are not responsible for the the majority of them."

Aside from the ice age, peer-reviewed scientific research disasgrees with you.

Current extinction rates are 1000 times higher than they were prior to the industrialization of the Western World.
 
No worries Beemer. Purpose of the post was to spark some healthy debate on both sides of the issue. By no means do I pretend to have the answers. But I have seen the population grow out of control over the past 2 decades, and not a lot of natural balance. The Puntledge situation is probably the best documented example. Another example was this season on the Stamp there were up to 5 seals working the river all the way up to the falls picking off loads of steelhead. I've never seen this level of predation in-river. Yes, there has been the occasional seal that makes it's way into the river for a few days, but they never before appeared to spend weeks/months in the river. Perhaps this is a sign that they are starving out in the ocean which doesn't have the carrying capacity for that many animals. Whatever the case we may have to consider some form of selective management.
 
xavier - So if you include "mother natures" ice age do the scientists still disagree? :D Does the "peer-reviewed scientific research" include species that they have no fossil record of? They are also discovring many new species they had no clue existed. Me thinks I stand by my suggestion. [8D] We are far from being all knowing.

beemer, as one the planets top omnivores I like to think we are improving through our scientific efforts, though they are often derailled by our political efforts.
 
Valid point islandboy, that is compared to all species of which we have fossil record. ;)

I too am by no-means a tree hugger. It is just an interesting ethical dilemma. Us humans, the ones responsible for the depleting salmon resources have caused a species dependant on salmon for survival to act more aggressively in their methods to catch salmon, and our solution is to kill them too?

Responsible fishing practices coupled with salmon enhancement programs are more appropriate responses than a seal cull. Culling the seals does not address the root of the problem.
 
If 100 hungry seals block entrance to a river, how many fish will get through without their tails chewed off? Cull em' all.
 
Beemer: I cant' speak to the causes and impacts of your Seals Eh. BUT, the California Sea Lion population that has been protected by the Seal Hugging radical left in my neck of the woods poses a potential disaster. While the King Salmon get all the press and attention these runs can recover as they have in the past. Near Bonneville Dam on the mighty Columbia River there is a looming problem with the potential to permanently devastate a fishery that I love. White Sturgeon are being targeted by these Sea Lions. Not just Sturgeon, breeding age fish. These fish do not reach breeding age until they are 72 inches long and that takes up to 60 years. These Giants of the deep are being ripped up for fun by these Fur Bags that only eat a portion and leave the rest to rot. The lack of NAD by the Game Commissions in Oregon and Washington and failure to act on this will have disastrous consequences for the fishery. Management of other species too help the species that we value so much makes common sense. There are always consequences to getting involved. To allow the Loud Left extremists to dictate the terms and conditions of game management is ludicrous. Sportsman and Women should unite for the common good. To allow our fish stocks to be devastated by Seals, Sea Lions, Birds or others will have a long lasting impact. As intelligent beings we have a responsibility to protect and improve the fisheries that we value with responsible stewardship. To stand back and watch this type of tragedy would be a huge mistake. Bad idea my friend.
 
I worke d in the arctic for 11 years the ice is not as thick and its hard for the polar bears to get grub so I say we kill the seals take up north feed the polar bears they get fat and happy have more babys and the seals sown here get dealt with
 
Konezone wrote "To allow our fish stocks to be devastated by Seals, Sea Lions, Birds or others will have a long lasting impact. As intelligent beings we have a responsibility to protect and improve the fisheries that we value with responsible stewardship. To stand back and watch this type of tragedy would be a huge mistake. Bad idea my friend."

I agree in part. Responsible stewardhsip is the key, but "we" are the ones who have brought the fish stocks down to levels which are not sustainable, not the sea lions, seals and birds. If we are all willing to make some sacrifices instead of pointing the fingers at evryone and everything else, than a cull may be justified.
 
Here is some DFO History on seal culling in B.C.

"Harbour seal populations in B. C have been increasing in all areas surveyed by DFO. The increases, believed to be occurring province-wide, represent the recovery of populations that had been depleted by bounties and hunting.

the morning, and toward the end of the pupping season. Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO) surveys conducted under these conditions indicate that the harbour seal population in Georgia Strait has grown from about 2,100 in 1973 to 12,500 in 1987, a rate of increase of 12.4% per year. Similar increases have occured in all other areas censused. For example, in the lower Skeena River counts have increased from about 400 in 1977 to 1,250 in 1987. It is estimated that the total population in B.C. currently numbers about 65,000 and may be approaching historical levels.

This recent increase in numbers in B.C. represents the recovery of a depleted population, which in the late 1960s had probably been reduced to less than 15,000. A bounty offered by DFO for each seal killed between 1913 and 1964 reduced populations to about half historic levels. Harbour seals were also intensively hunted for their pelts between 1962 and 1969. The population could not withstand this additional hunting and declined sharply during the mid 1960s.

Researchers at the Pacific Biological Station in Nanaimo recently began examining the impact of the growing harbour seal population on fisheries. Data are presently being collected on diet, seasonal movements and abundance in conflict areas to establish the extent to which seals interfere with fishing activities and their impact on important fish stocks, such as salmon and herring.

One of the main topics now being studied is the amount of salmon consumed by harbour seals. The amount of food eaten by a seal depends on its size and sex, the season and the caloric content of the prey. On average, harbour seals consume about 1.8-3.2 kg (4-7 lbs) of fish daily. At present not enough is known about the diet of harbour seals to accurately estimate the amount of salmon eaten. Preliminary findings indicate that in most localities, harbour seals prey mainly on a wide variety of small fishes that occur in shallow water around reefs. These include sculpins, small flatfishes and rockfishes, greenlings, smelts and perches. During winter their diet consists mainly of hake and, to a lesser degree, herring. However, salmon may constitute an important part of the diet in some rivers and estuaries while salmon are spawning.

Harbour seals also create problems for fishermen by removing salmon from gear. Gillnetters and sport fishermen experience the greatest losses.

Harbour seals create problems for commercial fishermen by removing and damaging salmon in gillnets. Harbour seals also take salmon from the lines of recreational fishermen."

Sure seals suck , but do we want to even make a effort to get the balance back in nature or are we going to continue on the haphazard road we have travelled for the last 100 years ?
 
Beemer - I'd be curious how old that article is - stating 65000 seals currently, well this article here:

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/Story/quebec/killerwhales_e.htm

says there are 130000 (not even including sea lions)! So that means they are double their historic average from how I read it. THAT is called imbalance and why something should be done.

4-7 lbs of salmon a day means 190 million to 332 million pounds a year of salmon devoured by seals!?!? Where will we be at in 5, 10 years? Sure humans have been a big part of the problem, but imbalance should be dealt with or we are screwed IMH
 
I see on the American News tonight that 4 sea lions were found shot in the Columbia , interesting to hear that the announcer had information that the biologists down there had blamed the seal lions for the wiping out of the steelhead run , gotta admire our American cousins , no B.S. there you got a problem ............. shoot it !
Charlton Heston will be proud of those boys !

AL
 
I see on the American News tonight that 4 sea lions were found shot in the Columbia , interesting to hear that the announcer had information that the biologists down there had blamed the seal lions for the wiping out of the steelhead run , gotta admire our American cousins , no B.S. there you got a problem ............. shoot it !
Charlton Heston will be proud of those boys !

AL
 
4 California Sea Lions and 2 Stellar Sea Lions. I blame it on DB Cooper. [8D][8D][8D] WOW [:0] its a little Harsh I agree. I would rather it be done with a little more tact but the end result is what matters. I hope the worst offenders were eliminated. The breeding age Sturgeon are well worth defending. From what I hear it takes 60 years to reach breeding age for a White Sturgeon and a Sea Lion can end it in 60 seconds. Now thats a shame. [V][V][V]
 
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