Salt-water wash-down ---hazard or convenience?

Sharphooks

Well-Known Member
Not sure how salt-water wash-down systems are plumbed out---I presume a through-hull fitting, with a poly hose clamped off to the barbed fitting on the inside of the through-hull, leading up to the intake of the pump, correct?

So, if the poly hose clamp failed, or the hose itself sprung a leak, is that an automatic invitation to swamping or sinking a boat if the bilge pumps short-out or can't keep up with the in-coming water?

What other components are there in the salt-water wash down system to prevent that type of catastrophic failure?

I decided not to install through-hull transducers to protect hull integrity---then I started thinking about the wash-down pump in my 21 footer and what could happen if the hose failed.

Any comments on how these wash-down systems guard against that type of failure?

thanks
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I am installing a S.S. ball valve on mine, of course that doesn't adress the hose blowing off issue though.
I have thought of running the pick-up hose down the stern, not sure if it would allow the pump to pull water up that high though, will have to give it a try.
 
Mine SS shutoff valve is mounted on a pipe nipple direct to the through hull fitting (one piece unit). It's flex hosed after that point to the pump intake and then on to the nozzle. There is no real safety sytem in place on my rig other than regular maintenance. I do however tend to just use mine at the end of the day when I'm cleaning up and then shut off the valve after I'm done. Not a fix if the nipple breaks off or valve fails but I use mine enough to keep an eye on it. Just my two cents......:)
 
I've mounted mine out the back of the transom and down the back with a piece of ploy pipe with a back flow preventer on it. This way the hull is never comprised and I can still use the wash down.
 
Mine SS shutoff valve is mounted on a pipe nipple direct to the through hull fitting (one piece unit). It's flex hosed after that point to the pump intake and then on to the nozzle. There is no real safety sytem in place on my rig other than regular maintenance. I do however tend to just use mine at the end of the day when I'm cleaning up and then shut off the valve after I'm done. Not a fix if the nipple breaks off or valve fails but I use mine enough to keep an eye on it. Just my two cents......:)

Mine is set up similar to yours except the pipe is welded to the hull.

IMG_1246.jpg


Everything above it is flexible.

It used to be that the pipe went right up through the deck and was welded around at deck level as well. I have a self bailing deck so this was ideal. When I put the new cabinet in I had to cut it down to fit the battery's in there. That is why I added the ss ball valve.

I have seen some boats with an out side system in place. I have seen pipes coming up through the swim grid. It might not look as pretty but there is one less through hull fitting to worry about.


Oh yeah I use mine all the time and find it a major convenience.

Cheers,
John
 
Last edited by a moderator:
My ball valve is solid to the thru hull fitting as well, then good quality hose to a three way valve then on to the pump, which is above sea level.
 
My understanding is that ABYC rule requires the hose leading from thru-hull to pump be steel reinforced hosepipe with double clamps. Also, one should carry some wood cone plugs to have in the event of emergency. some mariners tether the appropriate sized wood cone plug with cord or nylon to location very near thru-hull, so if in the event of thru-hull emergency, said plug is handy and ready for action. good luck. DAJ
 
ABYC Standards for seacocks and thru-hulls

Think of it like this: The only thing standing between your safety on a seaworthy dry-bilged boat, and a disastrous 50-gal/89-l-per-minute leak through a 1″/25.4mm through-hull, is a properly installed and secure seacock.

Since each seacock is vital to a boat’s watertight integrity, by selecting the valve and its connectors and components based solely on expense, ease of installation, or because “that’s the way we’ve always done it,” you will put the boat at unnecessary risk. Indeed, if you choose the incorrect seacock materials, they will be impossible to properly install for a given application.

The guidelines set forth in the American Boat & Yacht Council’s Standards and Technical Information Reports for Small Craft, Standard,
H-27: Through-Hull Fittings and Drain Plugs, revised in July 2008, make it clear that seacock installations must be robust and durable. It specifies that each penetration below the waterline should be fitted with a through-hull and a seacock valve. In this context, “below the waterline” means any fitting that is submerged when the vessel heels 7° for powerboats; and to the level of the sheer amidships on sailboats.
Seacock 01.jpg
A single exception is detailed below. While the standard is important and a quick read, a few passages are particularly relevant and potentially tricky for builders and repair yards:

27.5.1 “All piping, tubing or hose lines penetrating the hull below the maximum heeled waterline, shall be equipped with a seacock to stop the admission of water in the event of failure of pipes, tubing or hose. (Exception 2) Hull penetrations that discharge above the waterline in its static floating position and below the maximum heeled waterline and meet requirements H-27.5.3.”

Therefore, some above-the-static-waterline through-hull fittings might comply while not using a valve per se.

27.5.3 “Hull penetrations that are not equipped with a seacock[remember, these may only be above the static waterline—D’Antonio] shall use reinforced piping or hose that resists kinking or collapse.”
Seacock 02.jpg
If you opt to forgo the seacock on any fitting above the static waterline, the hose must be reinforced. While “reinforced” is not defined in the standard, to me it means a heavy-walled hose such as one designed for marine wet exhaust and carrying the J2006R designation. Wire-reinforced wet-exhaust hose—a common designation for durable raw-water hoses—would also meet the criteria, although I wouldn’t consider the wire a prerequisite unless the installation risked kinking. My preference is to avoid installing a through-hull fitting within less than 12″ (304 mm) of the static waterline without a seacock, power or sail—regardless of whether the region is submerged during a 7° heel or when heeled down to the sheer amidships. (The term static floating position is defined in detail in the standard, and should be well understood by those carrying out this work.)

27.5.4 “Seacocks shall be designed and constructed to meet ANSI/UL 1121, Marine Through-Hull Fittings and Sea-Valves.”

This does not say that just any UL rating or labeling ensures compliance. Valves can be UL listed for countless applications—fuel, LP gas, potable water, and even seawater. Only a few are designated as “sea valves.” Typically, UL-listed sea valves include a flange, although it’s not specified in the standard.

27.6.1 The seacock must be able to withstand “a 500 pound static force applied for 30 seconds to the inboard end the assembly, without the assembly failing to stop the ingress of water.”

This means the more hard plumbing directly attached to the seacock, the greater its vulnerability to failure during that test and in service. I recommend a pipe-to-hose adapter, straight or 90°, as the only fitting that should be directly attached to a seacock. A length of hose should separate any additional hard plumbing fittings from the seacock to isolate it from a lever-arm effect. My personal standard is: any raw-water plumbing must pass “the stand-on-it test.” Meaning, if a raw-water plumbing hose, fitting, or fixture is too fragile to be stepped upon without failing or leaking, it’s either too fragile, period; or not well enough protected.
Seacock 03.jpg

27.6.1.2 “Threads used in seacock installations shall be compatible (e.g., NPT to NPT, NPS to NPS).”

This entry, which specifically prohibits the mixing of incompatible thread types, was added to the standard in 2008. While it’s inconceivable to me that any experienced boat builder or mechanic would knowingly attach plumbing components whose threads were incompatible, it’s an all-too-frequent occurrence; thus the specific prohibition.

Hardware throughout the raw-water system should be fully compatible with exposure to seawater. Usually this means bronze (brass should never be installed, because of its zinc content); however, proprietary glass-reinforced plastics such as Marelon are also well suited to seacock and raw-water applications. Avoid PVC; its tensile strength is not high enough to rely on to keep a vessel afloat. Also, conventional 300-series stainless steel is not ideal because of its propensity for crevice corrosion.
Seacock 04.jpg
Here is a through-hull fitting attached to an inline ball valve—two components that were never designed to be attached to each other. They do not constitute a proper seacock, and are not compliant with ABYC standards. Because the ball valve’s threads are tapered, and the through-hull’s are straight, they do not properly interface, and make a weak joint at best. Moreover, seacocks are typically flanged to provide adequate load distribution, and on FRP vessels, they often rest on encapsulated marine plywood, GPO 3, or some other suitable composite material backing block. (Never install solid wood of any species for this application.) If the seacock flange includes mounting holes, it must be through-bolted or lagged into the backing block with bronze, not stainless, fasteners.

BTW: I really like having the washdown - keeps blood and guts off the deck while fishing and easy boat clean-up later.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes mine looks like most in the pic HUGE ball valve then hose tell you one thing id never have a baot with out a washdown pump helps my job sooooo much easier ive got fresh and salt water wash down pumps on her......

Wolf
 
ABYC Electric Bilge Pumps

H-22: Electric Bilge Pump Systems
22.2 SCOPE

These standards apply to all boats equipped with electric bilge pump systems intended for control of spray, rain water, and normal accumulation of water due to seepage and spillage.
EXCEPTIONS:
1. Pumps intended for damage control.
2. Damage control systems.
Note that bilge pumps are not designed for damage control such as a breach in the hull. The capacities are generally low and there is insufficient attention paid to screening debris in their design and location to handle a hull breach.

22.4.6 Normal Accumulation of Bilge Water - minor amounts of water collecting in the bilge from spray, rain, seepage, and spillage that can be removed by the bilge pumps.
22.4.7 Maximum Bilge Water Level - tThe level above which electrical or mechanical systems will be adversely affected by bilge water, with the vessel in the static floating position or underway.
22.4.8 Maximum Heeled Waterline - tThe level of the water on the hull when the hull is inclined to 22.4.8.1 a. an angle of 7°, for powerboats, or
22.4.9 Readily Accessible - Capable of being reached quickly and safely for effective use under emergency conditions without the use of tools.

22.5 GENERAL REQUIREMENTS - PUMPS
22.5.2.2 Mounting - The pump assembly shall provide a means to secure the pump to the boat to resist pump movement
22.5.2.3 Grounding - Metallic parts of the pump that, when exposed to contact with bilge water may become a source of stray current leakage, shall have provision for the connection of a grounding conductor.
EXCEPTION: A pump designed with a double insulated electrical system, which requires a break in two distinct insulation systems before electrical leakage can reach exposed metallic parts, does not require abonding connection.

22.5.3 Installation Instructions - Complete installation and operating instructions shall be provided, including at
least the following information:
22.5.3.1 an electrical diagram identifying each conductor, the proper circuit location of the control switch, and the bonding connection if applicable;
22.5.3.2 the recommended over-current protection for running overload and locked rotor conditions;
*22.5.3.4 the as installed factors that limit the stated pump rating including:
*22.5.3.4.1 the length of discharge piping, and *22.5.3.4.2 the number and radius of bends, and *22.5.3.4.3 the roughness of the interior surfaces of piping and fittings, and *22.5.3.4.4 the reduction in cross-sectional area of discharge system components such as check valves and thru-hulls;
22.5.3.5 the recommended method of securing the unit;
22.5.3.6 any other data necessary for the use, installation, or connection of the pump, including recommended screening, location of discharge fittings, and method of securing piping connections;
*22.5.3.7 conductor size.

*The ABYC Standard is voluntary so most manufacturers provide little of the above, important information. Conductors, piping, fittings and installation should be designed for minimum resistance to flow. DO NOT under-design components.

22.5.5 Pumps shall be capable of operating at their design voltage and maximum amperage for a continuous 24-hour period without failure and without creating a hazardous situation.
22.6.5 Materials shall be suitable for the marine environment, and shall not be adversely affected by gasoline, diesel fuel, cleaners identified as bilge cleaners, lube oil, kerosene, and salt water.

22.7 DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION - BILGE PUMP SYSTEM
22.7.1 The pump and system shall be designed and constructioned shall be such that the pump and system will towithstand the pressures, temperatures, and stresses likely to be encountered in normal marine service.
22.7.2 The pump and system shall be designed and constructed in accordance with the following provisions:
22.7.2.1 Piping connections, whether designed for rigid piping, tubing, or hose, shall be designed to prevent failure from stresses likely to be imposed on such connections. Hose connections shall be designed to provide support, and permit the use of clamps.
22.7.2.2 All potential sources of ignition located in spaces containing gasoline powered machinery, or gasoline
fuel tank(s), or joint fitting(s), or other connection(s) between components of a gasoline system, shall be ignition protected
NOTE: The use of a length of water resistant electrical cable, sealed at the pump connection, is recommended so that all electrical connections can be made above the maximum bilge water level.

22.7.3 On boats with an enclosed accommodation compartment, an audible alarm shall be installed indicating that
bilge water is approaching the maximum bilge water level.

22.8 22.8 LOCATION AND INSTALLATION

22.8.1 22.8.1 Bilge pumps shall be mounted in accordance with the pump manufacturer instructions, and in an accessible location to permit servicing and cleaning of the intake and/or screening.
22.8.2 The bilge pump inlet shall be located so that excess bilge water can be removed from the bilge at static floating position, and at maximum conditions created by the boat’s motion, heel, and trim.
22.8.3 Pump intakes shall be protected to prevent ingestion of debris likely to cause pump failure.
22.8.4 Intake hose or tubing shall not collapse under maximum pump suction.
22.8.5 Pump discharge systems shall be as nonrestrictive as practicable.

NOTE: As installed, pump discharge capacity may be reduced by such factors as
a. length of discharge piping, and/or (shorter is better)
b. number and radius of bends, and/or (few bends with large radius)
c. roughness of the interior surfaces of piping and fittings, and/or (do not use corrugated tubing)
d. reduction in cross-sectional area of discharge system components such as check valves and thru-hulls. (slightly larger than the pump discharge diameter is better)

The capacity of all bilge pumps is determined by the manufacturer under ideal conditions – no vertical head unless otherwise stated, no hose attached so no bends and with maximum design voltage supplied to the pump. In actual operational conditions, with long, undersized wiring runs, 2 or more meters of hose, with bends and fittings, the design discharge could be reduced 50% or more (if with corrugated tubing and undersized fittings) from that specification supplied by the manufacturer.


22.8.7 the discharge may be located below the maximum heeled waterline (7 degrees for powerboats) if the discharge line is provided with both of the following:
22.8.7.1 a seacock installed in accordance with the requirements of ABYC H-27,
22.8.7.2 a vented loop or other means to prevent siphoning into the boat. A check valve shall not be used for this purpose.
22.8.9 A check valve may be used only when necessary to prevent an automatic bilge pump from cycling on and off due to back flow from the discharge line.
22.8.10 Hose connections shall be secured with a non-corrosive type of clamp, or be mechanically fastened with permanently attached end fittings, such as swaged sleeve. Threaded inserts shall be attached with metallic clamps.
22.8.11 Motors of non-submersible bilge pumps shall be located above the maximum anticipated bilge water level.22.8.12 Bilge pumps with automatic controls shall be provided with a readily accessible manual switch to activate the pump.
22.8.13 Manual switches for bilge pumps shall be readily accessible.
22.8.14 Pumps with automatic controls shall be provided with a visual indication that power is being supplied to the pump.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
On TC Certified or compliant boats you are required to have a ONE-WAY Valve on all thru hulls below the down flooding point in case the hose lets go. It is supposed to stop the flow of water in. Funny enough I have heard of one guy that had these installed in his boat and the one-way gave way and the boat partially sank!! So much for TC regs!
 
One thing nobody has mentioned in regard thru hulls-especially washdowns-most of them have a filter-which can act like a broken thru hull if the glass (plastic) cracks or you leave off the O ring or don't tighten well enough! Lots of things to think on.
 
Mine has a very robust wire grating across the intake---I was thinking how handy that would be if the glass cracked or the hose started leaking or the hose clamp worked free---impossible to bung it off from the outside, impossible to get to it from the inside.

Slim compensation that the brochure insists my boat is "unsinkable"....
 
If you mount the pump well above the water line you don't have to worry as much about a broken fitting or filter causing a problem.
 
This is one of the reasons I love my Whaler. I have three compartments in the floor that flood when you stop moving and drain out when on step. I just put a builge pump with a hose on it in one of them . Never have to worry about clamps letting go and they make great holding tanks for the crabs also :)
 
My two cents... if you run your intake hose from the shut off ( which in the end, you WILL leave on...) up vertically above your waterline, then put in whatever loop or full circle you can fit, THEN connect to the pump, the hose should never siphon ( short of complete failure of clamps/hose/fittings )
 
Back
Top