20 hours for the coast guard vessels to get there and they wernt even capable of towing this small commercial vessel. Had to call in an American tug to tow a vessel in Canadian waters, what a joke. And according to the minister in charge "everything was under control" hahahaha wow, don't think this govnt is capable of speaking without lying through their teeth. Unfortunately I don't think anything will change until there actually is a disaster, truly sad.
Russian tanker adrift off Haida Gwaii
- Thread starter lazoman
- Start date
spring time
Well-Known Member
Just to play devils advocate for a moment. So then are we suppose to have an ocean going tug on stand by in a bunch of harbours up and down the coast. with in a six hour window of getting to the broke down freighter. So that would mean two or three on the west coast of the island, one in Haida Gwaii, one in port hardy, and I probably forgot a couple of spots. Don't forget these are all on standby time, with crews and boat getting paid while sitting there.who will pick up that bill, provincal or federal. There is only one tax payer in canada, and that is us. I can't recall the last time a freight was broken down on the coast and was close to the rocks, by nine miles. we are not set up for oil tankers. so what should we do move them further out to sea.
I am confused at why people jump to blame governments. Has any other previous BC Government had standby tugs stationed up and down the coast? This is an opportunity for current powers to learn. We all know what cuts the coast guard has seen, again not a Government problem, a reflection of hard decisions. I say good for the Coast Guard guys that went out and tried their hardest with the vessel and equipment they had. There are no easy answers. Lets hope BC learns from this, before the next one.
HM
HM
Putting enough tugs on the coast to respond in a more timely manner may not be a bad idea. First, crews could be flown in or brought by high speed boat so they wouldn't need to be sitting there all the time but obviously the vessel would need to be sitting and available. I think one would need to model the likelihood of an accident and the cost of the cleanup to see what makes economic sense. However, I'd note that the cost of cleaning up the Exxon Valdez spill was >$7B US so one could pay for a lot of tug services with that amount of money. Also, if you start to think about many, many oil tankers coming through the area, you can require the companies who are shipping the oil to foot the bill for a reasonable disaster preparedness plan. Sure that will drive up the cost of the oil BUT, that cost will be borne by those both within and outside of BC with most of the cost being passed onto consumers outside of Canada. The cost of a potential disaster will be borne by those within BC. One of the issues with oil (and many other sources of fuel) is that the full costs of the product are often not borne by the consumer but are rather covered by other sources of funds (often governmental).
cuttlefish
Well-Known Member
Incidents happens all the time. http://www.vancouversun.com/Second+...eway+project/7601958/story.html#ixzz2DBBTH99H
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ier-runs-aground-near-prince-rupert-1.2707580
We've benn lucky to dodge the spil bulletso far.
Americans have oceangoing rescue tugs on standby in Neah Bay and somewhere in Prince William Sound. Big hole in between.
Bent-Tip
Well-Known Member
I guess we should just let them spill away if it's going to cost people more tax dollars to have the capacity to respond to a disaster. Is that devil's advocate enough ??
Novel thought here, why not make industry pay for that infrastructure to respond to a potential marine disaster.... But they won't, wouldn't and never will.
Novel thought here, why not make industry pay for that infrastructure to respond to a potential marine disaster.... But they won't, wouldn't and never will.
http://thetyee.ca/News/2014/10/22/S...ce=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=221014
Danger Adrift: Fed Panel Warned of Simushir Scenario in 2013
Under cross-exam, shipping safety expert admitted flaws in data backing Enbridge case for Northern Gateway.
By David P. Ball, Today, TheTyee.ca
Share article via email Print this article
SimushirAdrift_300px.jpg
Russian vessel Simushir's near disaster off Haida Gwaii's pristine shores proves feds aren't adequately patrolling Canada's coastal seaway, says BC Chamber of Commerce president and CEO. (MARPAC/Facebook)
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Read more: Energy, Federal Politics, BC Politics, Environment
With an 135-metre Russian container ship now safely at port in Prince Rupert, a top environmental lawyer says that 19 months ago he warned the federal government precisely such an incident could occur to oil tankers on open waters off the West Coast.
The Simushir lost power in severe winds Friday and drifted within 14 kilometres of the rocky shores of Haida Gwaii carrying 500 tonnes of bunker fuel. The beleaguered vessel's captain was evacuated by helicopter after suffering a "cardiac event," a high-placed government source confirmed.
Even the head of one of the $6.5-billion Northern Gateway's most vocal backers, the B.C. Chamber of Commerce, expressed concern about the delayed response to the incident and questioned whether Canada's marine safety systems are adequate -- suggesting federal authorities displayed a "lack of concern" for its West Coast shipping traffic that must be addressed if oilsands pipelines are to proceed.
For Chris Tollefson, executive director of the University of Victoria's Environmental Law Centre, the Simushir's near-miss in stormy northern seas was not a surprise. The incident took him back to March 18, 2013, when he cross-examined Enbridge Northern Gateway's expert witnesses about what he argued were flaws in their data.
Tollefson represented two environmental groups, B.C. Nature and Nature Canada, at Joint Review Panel hearings in Prince Rupert examining the Northern Gateway proposal.
"We were concerned that the proponent had underestimated the risks associated with navigation and shipping, not just in the confined channel -- the Douglas Channel -- but in the open water area adjacent to it," he said in a phone interview. "That is exactly where this incident took place."
According to review panel transcripts, Tollefson questioned Northern Gateway's expert witness Audun Brandsaeter, senior principal engineer at Norwegian firm Det Norske Veritas, about the data he used to support the company's marine safety plan for the 220 oil tankers a year predicted to use its Kitimat terminal.
But when presented on the stand with two peer-reviewed articles from the journal Accident Analysis and Prevention, in 2010 and 2011, Brandsaeter acknowledged the shipping database used in assessing B.C. tanker risks -- Lloyd's Register-Fairplay -- significantly underrepresented accident statistics, despite being "one of the most recognized databases of marine casualties," Brandsaeter testified.
On the stand in Prince Rupert, Brandsaeter accepted the articles' conclusions that the database saw only 30 per cent of shipping accidents actually reported -- and only those that fell into four categories: grounding (hitting shore), collision (hitting an object or vessel), foundering (tipping or sinking) and fire or explosion.
Loss of power or crew injuries, as occurred with the Simushir, are excluded from the reports despite presenting an obvious danger of an oil tanker accident, Tollefson said. However, presumably a grounding or foundering originally caused by a loss of power would be accounted for in the data.
Brandsaeter told the review panel he was aware of "significant under-reporting" and "deficiencies in the reporting" of marine accidents, but added that "we are confident that is taken care of" within the final calculations used in the Northern Gateway tanker report.
In addition, the Norwegian expert said that oil spills are better reported than other types of accident, partly because they cannot be as easily "hidden" from view.
"You can have a very serious episode arising from a loss of power, which is exactly what happened here, and if you lose power in an open water location in heavy seas, that can lead to dire consequences," Tollefson said in the wake of the Simushir.
US tug rescue a 'fluke'
Tollefson argued that having a U.S. tugboat at port in Prince Rupert come to the Simushir's rescue "was just a fluke," and that the two tugs Enbridge has vowed will accompany its oil tankers navigating the tight waters out to open sea are likely going to be "too small" to deal with a Simushir-like incident "let alone a huge oil tanker in distress."
"Happily," he said, there was no damage or spill from the drifting Simushir, its crew and ship towed to safety by a U.S. tugboat, despite that several attempts to attach towlines failed.
"But it really underscores the need for us to be aware of how risky and how challenging this coast is in terms of the transit of large vessels," he added. "This could have easily turned out differently -- the fact that it didn't is more just good luck than anything else."
The federal minister of Fisheries and Oceans, Gail Shea, admitted the Simushir incident was a "very serious situation" but told the House of Commons on Monday that it was the authorities' response, not chance, that saved the day.
Shea praised the Canadian Coast Guard's response and said the federal government has boosted funding for Coast Guard "renewal" by $6.8 billion.
"Luck had nothing to do with the situation," Shea told parliamentarians, after New Democrat MP Nathan Cullen (Skeena-Bulkley Valley) accused her department's marine safety plan of being "based on a U.S. tugboat and blind luck."
Shea emphasized that the private sector often provides towing service to the marine industry. "We are grateful that the Canadian Coast Guard was able to keep the situation under control, which was very difficult conditions... until the tug arrived from Prince Rupert."
Enbridge Northern Gateway did not return interview requests Monday, but the company has promised its loaded oil tankers will be escorted to open sea by two tugboats, one of them tethered to the ship and both carrying spill response gear. It has also vowed that departing ships would carry a licensed B.C. Coast Pilot.
"We have the most comprehensive set of marine safeguards ever established in B.C.," the website states, including claims that it is three times more prepared for an accident than required by Canadian law.
BC Chamber of Commerce CEO: 'wake-up call' to feds
But one of the project's most vocal supporters said the Simushir incident is "a wake-up call, for sure." John Winter, president and CEO of the B.C. Chamber of Commerce, questioned delays in the rescue operations for the Russian vessel.
"If Canada is concerned about what's going on its coast regardless of the Northern Gateway, they should be dealing with it," he said in a phone interview. "They don't seem to be concerned.
JohnWinterCEO_300px.jpg
BC Chamber of Commerce CEO John Winter: 'There is a shipping lane out there that Canada doesn't seem interested in enforcing.'
"If Canada is prepared to allow these ships to ply their trade up and down coast, they need to be prepared for the implications.... There is a shipping lane out there that Canada doesn't seem interested in enforcing -- or if they are enforcing it, how come this one got away?"
But despite his criticisms, Winter insisted there's not "really much relevance" to the proposed bitumen pipeline from Alberta and its accompanying oil tankers. The B.C. government has demanded five conditions be met before it endorses the pipeline, including creating a "world class" system for oil tanker safety along the coast, conditions he said have not yet been addressed.
"It's only when that project is a go that those processes would be put in place," he said.
Fisheries and Oceans spokesman David Walters insisted that Canada "already has a strong tanker safety system." He said authorities are nonetheless working on improving the system, including "taking a collaborative and co-operative approach with industry" to prevent and respond to incidents at sea, as well as adding real-time information including "environmental and hydrographic conditions" to mariners' existing navigation systems.
"This incident demonstrates that although Canada hasn't had a major spill in 30 years, the best way to minimize the risk of a spill is a strong prevention regime and strict oversight of safety regulations that are in place," Walters said. "In the case of a spill, what is critical is being prepared to respond quickly and start the cleanup with the appropriate resources close at hand.
https://docs.neb-one.gc.ca/ll-eng/l...lume_155_-_A3G1L2.pdf?nodeid=936065&vernum=-2
Danger Adrift: Fed Panel Warned of Simushir Scenario in 2013
Under cross-exam, shipping safety expert admitted flaws in data backing Enbridge case for Northern Gateway.
By David P. Ball, Today, TheTyee.ca
Share article via email Print this article
SimushirAdrift_300px.jpg
Russian vessel Simushir's near disaster off Haida Gwaii's pristine shores proves feds aren't adequately patrolling Canada's coastal seaway, says BC Chamber of Commerce president and CEO. (MARPAC/Facebook)
Related
If Drifting Ship Hits Haida Gwaii, 'It's Going to Be a Mess'
Officials says powerless, fuel-laden Russian vessel not currently headed towards land.
Harper Gov't Changes to NEB Make First Nations' Concerns 'Irrelevant': Lawyer
Energy board overhaul speeds up oil and gas projects.
Feds Undercut BC's Oil Spill Prevention Panel
Tories rewriting safety regs with no input from their own expert panel, says member.
Read more: Energy, Federal Politics, BC Politics, Environment
With an 135-metre Russian container ship now safely at port in Prince Rupert, a top environmental lawyer says that 19 months ago he warned the federal government precisely such an incident could occur to oil tankers on open waters off the West Coast.
The Simushir lost power in severe winds Friday and drifted within 14 kilometres of the rocky shores of Haida Gwaii carrying 500 tonnes of bunker fuel. The beleaguered vessel's captain was evacuated by helicopter after suffering a "cardiac event," a high-placed government source confirmed.
Even the head of one of the $6.5-billion Northern Gateway's most vocal backers, the B.C. Chamber of Commerce, expressed concern about the delayed response to the incident and questioned whether Canada's marine safety systems are adequate -- suggesting federal authorities displayed a "lack of concern" for its West Coast shipping traffic that must be addressed if oilsands pipelines are to proceed.
For Chris Tollefson, executive director of the University of Victoria's Environmental Law Centre, the Simushir's near-miss in stormy northern seas was not a surprise. The incident took him back to March 18, 2013, when he cross-examined Enbridge Northern Gateway's expert witnesses about what he argued were flaws in their data.
Tollefson represented two environmental groups, B.C. Nature and Nature Canada, at Joint Review Panel hearings in Prince Rupert examining the Northern Gateway proposal.
"We were concerned that the proponent had underestimated the risks associated with navigation and shipping, not just in the confined channel -- the Douglas Channel -- but in the open water area adjacent to it," he said in a phone interview. "That is exactly where this incident took place."
According to review panel transcripts, Tollefson questioned Northern Gateway's expert witness Audun Brandsaeter, senior principal engineer at Norwegian firm Det Norske Veritas, about the data he used to support the company's marine safety plan for the 220 oil tankers a year predicted to use its Kitimat terminal.
But when presented on the stand with two peer-reviewed articles from the journal Accident Analysis and Prevention, in 2010 and 2011, Brandsaeter acknowledged the shipping database used in assessing B.C. tanker risks -- Lloyd's Register-Fairplay -- significantly underrepresented accident statistics, despite being "one of the most recognized databases of marine casualties," Brandsaeter testified.
On the stand in Prince Rupert, Brandsaeter accepted the articles' conclusions that the database saw only 30 per cent of shipping accidents actually reported -- and only those that fell into four categories: grounding (hitting shore), collision (hitting an object or vessel), foundering (tipping or sinking) and fire or explosion.
Loss of power or crew injuries, as occurred with the Simushir, are excluded from the reports despite presenting an obvious danger of an oil tanker accident, Tollefson said. However, presumably a grounding or foundering originally caused by a loss of power would be accounted for in the data.
Brandsaeter told the review panel he was aware of "significant under-reporting" and "deficiencies in the reporting" of marine accidents, but added that "we are confident that is taken care of" within the final calculations used in the Northern Gateway tanker report.
In addition, the Norwegian expert said that oil spills are better reported than other types of accident, partly because they cannot be as easily "hidden" from view.
"You can have a very serious episode arising from a loss of power, which is exactly what happened here, and if you lose power in an open water location in heavy seas, that can lead to dire consequences," Tollefson said in the wake of the Simushir.
US tug rescue a 'fluke'
Tollefson argued that having a U.S. tugboat at port in Prince Rupert come to the Simushir's rescue "was just a fluke," and that the two tugs Enbridge has vowed will accompany its oil tankers navigating the tight waters out to open sea are likely going to be "too small" to deal with a Simushir-like incident "let alone a huge oil tanker in distress."
"Happily," he said, there was no damage or spill from the drifting Simushir, its crew and ship towed to safety by a U.S. tugboat, despite that several attempts to attach towlines failed.
"But it really underscores the need for us to be aware of how risky and how challenging this coast is in terms of the transit of large vessels," he added. "This could have easily turned out differently -- the fact that it didn't is more just good luck than anything else."
The federal minister of Fisheries and Oceans, Gail Shea, admitted the Simushir incident was a "very serious situation" but told the House of Commons on Monday that it was the authorities' response, not chance, that saved the day.
Shea praised the Canadian Coast Guard's response and said the federal government has boosted funding for Coast Guard "renewal" by $6.8 billion.
"Luck had nothing to do with the situation," Shea told parliamentarians, after New Democrat MP Nathan Cullen (Skeena-Bulkley Valley) accused her department's marine safety plan of being "based on a U.S. tugboat and blind luck."
Shea emphasized that the private sector often provides towing service to the marine industry. "We are grateful that the Canadian Coast Guard was able to keep the situation under control, which was very difficult conditions... until the tug arrived from Prince Rupert."
Enbridge Northern Gateway did not return interview requests Monday, but the company has promised its loaded oil tankers will be escorted to open sea by two tugboats, one of them tethered to the ship and both carrying spill response gear. It has also vowed that departing ships would carry a licensed B.C. Coast Pilot.
"We have the most comprehensive set of marine safeguards ever established in B.C.," the website states, including claims that it is three times more prepared for an accident than required by Canadian law.
BC Chamber of Commerce CEO: 'wake-up call' to feds
But one of the project's most vocal supporters said the Simushir incident is "a wake-up call, for sure." John Winter, president and CEO of the B.C. Chamber of Commerce, questioned delays in the rescue operations for the Russian vessel.
"If Canada is concerned about what's going on its coast regardless of the Northern Gateway, they should be dealing with it," he said in a phone interview. "They don't seem to be concerned.
JohnWinterCEO_300px.jpg
BC Chamber of Commerce CEO John Winter: 'There is a shipping lane out there that Canada doesn't seem interested in enforcing.'
"If Canada is prepared to allow these ships to ply their trade up and down coast, they need to be prepared for the implications.... There is a shipping lane out there that Canada doesn't seem interested in enforcing -- or if they are enforcing it, how come this one got away?"
But despite his criticisms, Winter insisted there's not "really much relevance" to the proposed bitumen pipeline from Alberta and its accompanying oil tankers. The B.C. government has demanded five conditions be met before it endorses the pipeline, including creating a "world class" system for oil tanker safety along the coast, conditions he said have not yet been addressed.
"It's only when that project is a go that those processes would be put in place," he said.
Fisheries and Oceans spokesman David Walters insisted that Canada "already has a strong tanker safety system." He said authorities are nonetheless working on improving the system, including "taking a collaborative and co-operative approach with industry" to prevent and respond to incidents at sea, as well as adding real-time information including "environmental and hydrographic conditions" to mariners' existing navigation systems.
"This incident demonstrates that although Canada hasn't had a major spill in 30 years, the best way to minimize the risk of a spill is a strong prevention regime and strict oversight of safety regulations that are in place," Walters said. "In the case of a spill, what is critical is being prepared to respond quickly and start the cleanup with the appropriate resources close at hand.
https://docs.neb-one.gc.ca/ll-eng/l...lume_155_-_A3G1L2.pdf?nodeid=936065&vernum=-2
cuttlefish
Well-Known Member
When my father-in-law (a retired US Army Colonel) had to use the bathroom he would excuse himself by saying, "Gotta go and make some rope for the Canadian Navy." Sorry, just had to share that nugget. Wondering if the Canadian Coast Guard was using the same brand.
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