Protest/Rally outside Vancouver DFO Office July 6th 12 to 1:30 PM

[Silver Streak]

I commend the initiative of all those who have written letters, attended protests and meetings, etc. but none of these actions will make a difference. The Government and DFO are not really concerned with the status of salmon stocks - if they were they would have done something significant to rebuild them years ago. Todays fight is all about reconciliation as DFO (and the Liberals) reallocate the resource to First Nations. It doesn't matter what you do, it will not change their ultimate goal. We have been fighting these battles for 60 years over a series of issues all leading to less fish for the public fishery. It all began with the start of net fisheries in Juan de Fuca in 1957 which severely impacted the public fishery. This was the start of angler's becoming organized and led to the formation of the Amalgamated Conservation Society on southern Vancouver Island and their efforts which led to the formation of the Sport Fishing Advisory Board in 1964. For 56 years the SFAB has been advising DFO and where has it gotten us?

 

[fishin solo]

I commend the initiative of all those who have written letters, attended protests and meetings, etc. but none of these actions will make a difference. The Government and DFO are not really concerned with the status of salmon stocks - if they were they would have done something significant to rebuild them years ago. Todays fight is all about reconciliation as DFO (and the Liberals) reallocate the resource to First Nations. It doesn't matter what you do, it will not change their ultimate goal. We have been fighting these battles for 60 years over a series of issues all leading to less fish for the public fishery. It all began with the start of net fisheries in Juan de Fuca in 1957 which severely impacted the public fishery. This was the start of angler's becoming organized and led to the formation of the Amalgamated Conservation Society on southern Vancouver Island and their efforts which led to the formation of the Sport Fishing Advisory Board in 1964. For 56 years the SFAB has been advising DFO and where has it gotten us?

That’s all great and dandy but I’m not gonna sit back and take it without a fight no matter what you say.

 

[sasqman]

Great interview. I learned a lot, especiallg the lack of a recovery program. Thanks for putting the effort in and being a voice!

 

[cohochinook]

For the Rally if any participants would like to bring their boat down, we do have signage that can temporarily be fixed to your boat. We do have some participants that are planning to bring boats and we think this would help with the visual impact.

 

[Peahead]

For sure and you did a fantastic job. In regards to the question though, if you had more time, what's our response to DFOs insistence that THEIR science is sound?

DFO's science comes from public fishers that we provided them via DNA, CWT and Creel data and this shows that we have a very tiny ER ( Exploitation Rate) on the early run FR stocks of concern from April to July in Georgia Strait. I think was 0.63% in 2018 as I recall. It is actually zero in some sub areas( eg Northern Howe Sound) so there are areas that could easily be open. And I am talking clipped or not. Not being able to retain hatchery Chinook is another issue and I can explain that some other time. Some sub areas have higher than 1% ( eg. Juan de Fuca areas )so those areas would be tougher to argue as basically the less ER on those stocks the more chance it could be left open. And I am talking south coast as the north is a completely different set of "rules". If DFO followed science all the recent SFAB proposals would have been accepted. If you understand that then you get it. DFO ignored science and made a political decision by ignoring most of SFAB's recommendations. You should really look at the details of the SFAB proposals to understand how many recommendations were turned down. There still may be some changes similar to some small openings that just were announced in area 13 and 15 just a few days ago. It is still possible there could be a few more sub areas opened up thanks to SFAB proposals. We are closed mainly because FN demanded it. I think most people know that but most won't talk about it. DFO closed us because if they didn't the lower Fraser River FN would refuse to be curtailed at all of their in river FSC . So DFO can say that stopping the public fishery allows them to curtail some ( and I stress only some, not all ) of the FSC gill netting in river so that in turn then might save a few at risk stock. That is why DFO claims it is science but it uses political re-allocation to try to save the Chinook . Our closure essentially helps curtails the FN netting in river somewhat . I was actually told this last year by the past minister Jonathan Wilkinson and I am not keeping it to myself anymore. This is what DFO uses as "science" when actually it is political. The science in all this is that there is no question that the early run stocks arriving at the Fraser (4-2 and 5-2 wild chinook) are in trouble - no arguing that. The political is that because FN are curtailed even the slightest of at risk FR stocks the public can't even touch a chinook ....even a hatchery . Then comes the re-allocated of healthy stocks. Ever wondere why we are closed in August when the healthy stocks arrive (eg S. Thompson) ? re-allocation, not science.

 

[wildmanyeah]

DFO's science comes from public fishers that we provided them via DNA, CWT and Creel data and this shows that we have a very tiny ER ( Exploitation Rate) on the early run FR stocks of concern from April to July in Georgia Strait. I think was 0.63% in 2018 as I recall. It is actually zero in some sub areas( eg Northern Howe Sound) so there are areas that could easily be open. And I am talking clipped or not. Not being able to retain hatchery Chinook is another issue and I can explain that some other time. Some sub areas have higher than 1% ( eg. Juan de Fuca areas )so those areas would be tougher to argue as basically the less ER on those stocks the more chance it could be left open. And I am talking south coast as the north is a completely different set of "rules". If DFO followed science all the recent SFAB proposals would have been accepted. If you understand that then you get it. DFO ignored science and made a political decision by ignoring most of SFAB's recommendations. You should really look at the details of the SFAB proposals to understand how many recommendations were turned down. There still may be some changes similar to some small openings that just were announced in area 13 and 15 just a few days ago. It is still possible there could be a few more sub areas opened up thanks to SFAB proposals. We are closed mainly because FN demanded it. I think most people know that but most won't talk about it. DFO closed us because if they didn't the lower Fraser River FN would refuse to be curtailed at all of their in river FSC . So DFO can say that stopping the public fishery allows them to curtail some ( and I stress only some, not all ) of the FSC gill netting in river so that in turn then might save a few at risk stock. That is why DFO claims it is science but it uses political re-allocation to try to save the Chinook . Our closure essentially helps curtails the FN netting in river somewhat . I was actually told this last year by the past minister Jonathan Wilkinson and I am not keeping it to myself anymore. This is what DFO uses as "science" when actually it is political. The science in all this is that there is no question that the early run stocks arriving at the Fraser (4-2 and 5-2 wild chinook) are in trouble - no arguing that. The political is that because FN are curtailed even the slightest of at risk FR stocks the public can't even touch a chinook ....even a hatchery . Then comes the re-allocated of healthy stocks. Ever wondere why we are closed in August when the healthy stocks arrive (eg S. Thompson) ? re-allocation, not science.

Nailed it

 

[Tugcapitan]

Nailed it

Yup.
And that is why a protest over this is doomed.

 

[capman]

DFO’s behaviour reminds me of Trump sticking to it’s base and spread lies after lies after lies. The question is should we sit back and watch what’s going on and just accept it the way it is or do our best to fight back by educating the public, explain to younger generation as what’s going on and reveal the truth. Social media plays a huge role and we need to use it as our weapon. A few days ago I was up in the north of Vancouver Island talking to a First Nation friend and after a very long discussion we both agreed that although the current regulations and closures benefits First Nation in short term, it will actually harm them in the long run. Decision made by DFO today bring more animosity instead of unity among various groups.

 

[cohochinook]

Yup.
And that is why a protest over this is doomed.

I couldn't disagree with you more! This is the exact reason we need a protest. This Liberal government's agenda to take away access to the public fishery has to be exposed to more than just sport fisherman. There is a way to have access opportunities for public fishers and respect First Nations constitutional rights. This Liberal government has chosen not to do this and presented a smoke and mirrors recovery plan for Upper Fraser Chinook stocks of concern!

 

[Peahead]

Yup.
And that is why a protest over this is doomed.

I think anyone who feels that way is perhaps misunderstanding what a rally like this expects as an outcome. Having the public become more aware and having the media there to report it would already make the rally successful. If anyone thinks the rally will remove political decisions out of fisheries, change constitutional rights or open chinook retention on Tuesday, then I'd suggest they have set their expectations a little too high- lol

DFO’s behaviour reminds me of Trump sticking to it’s base and spread lies after lies after lies. The question is should we sit back and watch what’s going on and just accept it the way it is or do our best to fight back by educating the public, explain to younger generation as what’s going on and reveal the truth. Social media plays a huge role and we need to use it as our weapon. A few days ago I was up in the north of Vancouver Island talking to a First Nation friend and after a very long discussion we both agreed that although the current regulations and closures benefits First Nation in short term, it will actually harm them in the long run. Decision made by DFO today bring more animosity instead of unity among various groups.

Agree. There are FN in BC not in the lower Fraser that operate businesses that rely on and supports the public fishing sector. They are not happy with these closures either.

 

[wildmanyeah]

The worst thing we can do as a sector is just be silent.

If we are not on the political radar then nothing will change.

Anyone thinks that one action will change anything is right it won’t. This is a long term game. It’s about making consistent noise and chipping away.

Dfo is not going to spend time on your issues if your not there ever moment reminding them about it.

It get that people think it’s hopeless but why go on a fishing forum and bring others down who are trying hard to do something about it. I guess the saying is correct misery doesn't just love company it demand it.

 

[Tugcapitan]

I think anyone who feels that way is perhaps misunderstanding what a rally like this expects as an outcome. Having the public become more aware and having the media there to report it would already make the rally successful. If anyone thinks the rally will remove political decisions out of fisheries, change constitutional rights or open chinook retention on Tuesday, then I'd suggest they have set their expectations a little too high- lol



Agree. There are FN in BC not in the lower Fraser that operate businesses that rely on and supports the public fishing sector. They are not happy with these closures either.

The problem is trying control the narrative. Anyone who thinks the message will be properly represented by media coverage of a protest is putting a hell of a lot of faith in the reporters to actually listen and be educated by the spokes people. It could just as easily receive unfavorable coverage making the protesters and their message look bad, putting the general public even farther away from our viewpoint.

 

[Peahead]

[

The problem is trying control the narrative. Anyone who thinks the message will be properly represented by media coverage of a protest is putting a hell of a lot of faith in the reporters to actually listen and be educated by the spokes people. It could just as easily receive unfavorable coverage making the protesters and their message look bad, putting the general public even farther away from our viewpoint.

Concern that media will spin a message in the wrong way is a valid concern however that fear shouldn't be reason to pull back and not let your voice be heard. Just have to be careful and do ones due diligence as best you can. Work from past experiences. Choose media who have supported you before (eg Jill Bennett has been fantastic) . During/after last years' rally and after the closures in June the media via radio, TV and print have been very supportive . There is always going to be an article that comes out in other media that is not supportive of fishing such as those fueled by some ENGO's but everyone's voice should be heard. Positive past experiences with specific media become your ally, not your enemy.
Sitting on the couch at home and fearing any action will be used against you and destined to doom is IMO not a very effective way to live lol

 

[ziggy]

From my perspective we have nothing left to lose. Status quo isn’t working and DFO could care less and continually shows it. So it may not change any minds but neither has the current System. Always a risk, but at the rate closures are going, not much of one!

 

[Tugcapitan]

From my perspective we have nothing left to lose. Status quo isn’t working and DFO could care less and continually shows it. So it may not change any minds but neither has the current System. Always a risk, but at the rate closures are going, not much of one!

Yeah I guess.
Just feels like the timing couldn’t be worse to get the message across with everything else that is being protested right now.
The non fishermen I’ve heard talking about the closures all think it’s a great idea for the whales, and for reconciliation.
There’s zero incentive for the public to support recreational fishermen right now. I’m against the closures as much as you guys, but I can’t even convince people who are into hunting that we should be able to catch fish. The prevailing consensus that I’ve heard out there is even if DFO is mismanaging the resource to zero, it can only benefit the fish for us to be closed.
What’s the point in protesting if 80% of the population believes the closures are good? DFO will be unconcerned if the only ones complaining are us recreational “fringe” players.

 

[cohochinook]

The problem is trying control the narrative. Anyone who thinks the message will be properly represented by media coverage of a protest is putting a hell of a lot of faith in the reporters to actually listen and be educated by the spokes people. It could just as easily receive unfavorable coverage making the protesters and their message look bad, putting the general public even farther away from our viewpoint.

Crawling under a rock and hiding because of that doesn't make sense to me. We had a lot of success with her messaging last year and got extensive media coverage!

 

[SpringVelocity]

[


Concern that media will spin a message in the wrong way is a valid concern however that fear shouldn't be reason to pull back and not let your voice be heard. Just have to be careful and do ones due diligence as best you can. Work from past experiences. Choose media who have supported you before (eg Jill Bennett has been fantastic) . During/after last years' rally and after the closures in June the media via radio, TV and print have been very supportive . There is always going to be an article that comes out in other media that is not supportive of fishing such as those fueled by some ENGO's but everyone's voice should be heard. Positive past experiences with specific media become your ally, not your enemy.
Sitting on the couch at home and fearing any action will be used against you and destined to doom is IMO not a very effective way to live lol

I agree pulling back in not wise. Just something I would share.

When the community protested Shawnigan soil dump time and time again they were ripped apart by media. Many on this very forum did it as well.

The thing is though if those protests didn't happen the attention and pressure was not on the politicians. When W5 contacted community everything changed and the issue went national. The protest is just a start. If we want change then think maybe its time to unite with all other provinces and push nationally. The issue that has happened here is in every province with fishing and hunting.

Also work of advice we never broadcasted publically what we were doing. This forum is crawling with environmental groups acting as members. Just be careful what you say on here when planning.

 

[ziggy]

Yeah I guess.
Just feels like the timing couldn’t be worse to get the message across with everything else that is being protested right now.
The non fishermen I’ve heard talking about the closures all think it’s a great idea for the whales, and for reconciliation.
There’s zero incentive for the public to support recreational fishermen right now. I’m against the closures as much as you guys, but I can’t even convince people who are into hunting that we should be able to catch fish. The prevailing consensus that I’ve heard out there is even if DFO is mismanaging the resource to zero, it can only benefit the fish for us to be closed.
What’s the point in protesting if 80% of the population believes the closures are good? DFO will be unconcerned if the only ones complaining are us recreational “fringe” players.

I hear you I hear the same thing all the time. Funny though once you explain to people what’s going on, what the issues are and how to resolve them they come around. I think if the basis for the protest is to educate rather than come off like a bunch of entitled whiners it will be pretty positive. You will never get every one onside, many have no actual knowledge of fishing and have been spoon fed bad info by ENGO’s for years.
I believe a heavy emphasis of what Public Fishers do ( sport fishers can be spun negatively too easily) to enhance the stocks, hatchery volunteers, stream keepers, as well as the many programs we support with catch info that provide data to science they wouldn’t otherwise have access to is important. Most people have no idea of the volunteer work done! Most don’t know what the difference is between harvesting clipped vs wild salmon. Lots of other things we do is ignored or misunderstood because we get painted in a bad light by fund raising Engo’s
There’s always the danger of someone stepping into the FN minefield, or coming off as simply greedy, but if people just try and work the positives I think it will workout

 

[sasqman]

The important message that I have learned here on SFBC is that DFO doesn't have a recovery plan. It shouldn't be so much about us losing our rights to fish, but more so that they don't have a plan and that why we are in this predicament. Keep the message focused on their faults, not our losses.

 

[Unreel]

The important message that I have learned here on SFBC is that DFO doesn't have a recovery plan. It shouldn't be so much about us losing our rights to fish, but more so that they don't have a plan and that why we are in this predicament. Keep the message focused on their faults, not our losses.

They haven't had a plan for over 2 decades, just more restrictions and more closures. Dfo needs to be dismantled as they have proven they have zero capacity to manage and rebuild stocks. Like peahead mentioned we need to get other first nations groups in bc that opposed what the Fraser bands are doing on our side. Otherwise we have no chance, this government has a political agenda to appease the fn at any cost.