Proposal By DFO - Changes to Prawn Daily Rec. Limit Being Considered

[searun]

I spent 35 years as a successful commercial fisherman and another 10 running a lodge in the Charlottes and the above statement is the smartest thing I have ever read on the internet. I said the same thing in regards to halibut allocation when I was President of the PHMA

I think the core problem here is DFO is indeed singling out the rec fishery, without addressing the over-capacity issue at the same time. Nor does DFO offer up any data to support their assertion - where is the analysis to back up the alleged over-capacity within the rec fishery???

What we apparently have according to DFO is a shortage of prawns, or conservation issue. That presumably is over-fishing by all sectors. So then what is good for the rec fishery is also good for all. So I would support a 50% reduction if that was across the board for Rec & Commercial - FSC is another issue altogether. Having spent some time talking to people in the Commercial Prawn community, they are telling me that those who were involved in this fishery prior to DFO increasing the number of licenses knows there is an over-capacity (too many licenses). I'm not advocating tossing flaming arrows in anyone's direction, simply talking about the facts of what got us here. All for working together to sort this out, but let's use a science based approach to the discussion and address the actual root causes. I also happen to think that addressing an over-capacity (if one exists) within the rec sector can be accomplished in other ways than lowering the daily limit. Its all about total catch and managing effort for all sectors.

Halibut allocation is also about a fair distribution within the sectors. Coast-wide the recreational allocation is 20%, not the 15% Canada has ascribed. So if we are talking about fairness, that would be a start. Canada could get there easily without any pain to the Commercial sector if it actually wanted to pay for it - again, DFO created the ITQ system, they need to understand the costs as well as supposed benefits...and that isn't a shot at the Commercial sector, its just the system that is in place at no fault of the players.

So absolutely support sitting down and working responsibly together on these issues, respecting each other's needs and views. I would love to be sitting at a table with just the sectors - no DFO - so we can work it out. Pretty sure we would.

 

[searun]

Is that what’s being proposed for crab? Or is it just that you can’t pull traps at night but folks can continue to soak them overnight?

Cheers!

Ukee

Just no night time trap hauls - which I support 150% - too much opportunity for poaching. We need this to apply to all sectors. Presently only applies to Commercial in all but a couple of areas - needs to apply to Rec and Commercial for all areas. One simple rule to help address poaching.

 

[searun]

Be aware, this was not discussed with the SFAB.

Just like Salmon no discussion.

Not true. DFO has discussed this with the SFAB in loose conversations, and been told the predictable response. This is the first it has been formally introduced to the SFAB.

 

[agentaqua]

Prawn openings/closings are managed through spawner index surveys - since biomass or numbers are unknown and would require substantial effort and/or cost to develop and change much more quickly than salmon. As the prawn goes through it's life-cycle - it changes from a male to a female. Gender: just wait on the driver's licence. The idea is to preserve enough female spawners - kinda like we do wrt crabs. See:
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/docs/prawnspawn-crevreprod-eng.html?wbdisable=true
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/mplans/2018/prawnshrimp-trap-crevette-casier-sm-2018-2019-eng.pdf
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/docs/prawnspawn-crevreprod-eng.pdf
http://waves-vagues.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/347657.pdf
http://rem-main.rem.sfu.ca/theses/SmithMelissa_2013_MRM543.pdf

That's the idea, anyways.

So, theoretically - those boats could be offloading prawns from trips anywheres up and down the coast - assuming the area(s) are open. Hard, really to have any idea of how many tons that should be - but yearly landings should give you some idea of what is "normal", p13:
http://waves-vagues.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/40676833.pdf

Biomass been down a little in the past few years coast-wide - I haven't seen ANY data put on the table by DFO (i.e. Laurie Convey) to "prove" that this is due to poaching - although that could be happening in a few areas - but the prawns do go through natural cycles - and the ups and downs could be associated w other variables instead of poaching.

It'd also be interesting to see how fine of a scale that DFO has data on prawn landings by areas. They'd have those data. Do all areas show the same effect? Again - as searun has once more astutely mentioned "faith-based" science....

 

[wildmanyeah]

I think It would be nice if DFO did provide us with the Estimated rec exploitation rates for the rec fishery. Or latest share the historic data from the Irec Surveys and creel surveys.

If we are catching more it would be atlest nice to see that data.

 

[agentaqua]

I think It would be nice if DFO did provide us with the Estimated rec exploitation rates for the rec fishery. Or latest share the historic data from the Irec Surveys and creel surveys.

If we are catching more it would be atlest night to see that data.

X2 - and the FSC numbers, as well...

 

[searun]

They are limited to 50 traps per boat for FSC and no annual limit unless conservation concerns have been identified and typically restricted to their traditional territory. If they deplete them in their territory they are SOL

That is why we need Area licensing for Commercial - that way (like FN's) there is incentive to tend it like a garden and not over-harvest. Area licensing would also provide a dis-incentive for ever increasing investment in catch maximization technology. We have seen a lot of investment in the prawn sector (Commercial, Rec, FN) in catch technology. Increasing efficiency is a potential problem across all sectors that leads to over-capacity. This is something all sectors need to sit down and honestly address. Everyone working together to find win/win strategies that apply to all taking positive steps together to reduce catch efficiency.

The spawner index works basically as a loose proxy for abundance, and leads to a level of exploitation that is very imprecise and risky. I don't have a cheap alternative other than to look at the historic catch over multiple decades and establish a hard cap that could fluctuate up or down in years of high or low catch per unit effort. We could do the same for the rec fishery season length - manage to the same indicators used for the Commercial sector - make sense?

 

[wildmanyeah]

That is why we need Area licensing for Commercial - that way (like FN's) there is incentive to tend it like a garden and not over-harvest. Area licensing would also provide a dis-incentive for ever increasing investment in catch maximization technology. We have seen a lot of investment in the prawn sector (Commercial, Rec, FN) in catch technology. Increasing efficiency is a potential problem across all sectors that leads to over-capacity. This is something all sectors need to sit down and honestly address. Everyone working together to find win/win strategies that apply to all taking positive steps together to reduce catch efficiency.

The spawner index works basically as a loose proxy for abundance, and leads to a level of exploitation that is very imprecise and risky. I don't have a cheap alternative other than to look at the historic catch over multiple decades and establish a hard cap that could fluctuate up or down in years of high or low catch per unit effort. We could do the same for the rec fishery season length - manage to the same indicators used for the Commercial sector - make sense?

Yes I agree with this, I accidentally deleted that post when I went to edit it, I was going to note that is how I know some locally FSC fisheries work, I don't no if its the same coast wide.

 

[SpringVelocity]

I think It would be nice if DFO did provide us with the Estimated rec exploitation rates for the rec fishery. Or latest share the historic data from the Irec Surveys and creel surveys.

If we are catching more it would be atlest nice to see that data.

Exactly.

 

[IronNoggin]

... So what is happening here is the Commercial catch is crashing due to the Commercial over-capacity, and the only way for DFO to manage their way out of the bed they crapped in, is to take away the rec catch and fill the gap. Its a false economy, and left alone DFO and the Commercial fleet will manage to zero.

... The spawner index works basically as a loose proxy for abundance, and leads to a level of exploitation that is very imprecise and risky.

You were in the room Pat when I said pretty much exactly this to the head of the DFO prawn team that made a presentation to the Port SFAC.

If you recall, I braced him with a very direct question: "Do you understand the definition of Insanity".
He bristled, and vigorously defended the model they continue to employ.
A model that is driving yet another species into extirpation on BC's coast.

And that, very much so, is INSANE IMHO.

Nog

 

[searun]

Yes I agree with this, I accidentally deleted that post when I went to edit it, I was going to note that is how I know some locally FSC fisheries work, I don't no if its the same coast wide.

I'm not sure if all FSC fisheries are stay at home affairs - suspect given the cultural connection to the land, that is the case for FN's. An Area license system for Commercial would provide positive incentive for garden tending, as opposed to a turn and burn derby style fishery.

Not trying to pick any fights, just simply looking at how the fisheries have been managed, thinking about what the root causes are leading to the problems being seen, and thinking outside the box for alternatives. There has to be a way to rationalize the effort. Things like area/time closures, restrictions on catch methodology work for rec. Some of those also work for commercial, but it gets tricky when we have too many licenses and a mobile fleet. DFO created the high number of licenses - a buy back program appears to be the only logical win/win approach. There are always willing sellers and buyers. That's one way to deal with over-capacity, and the Department created the problem, so needs to step up.

 

[wildmanyeah]

We also should not forget that prawns and shrimp are not just a food source for us but also how are these effects felt up the food chain.

Hopefully Brian riddel and the Salish sea teams ecosystems model can accurately track and estimate these changes in its future development.

 

[agentaqua]

I'm not sure if all FSC fisheries are stay at home affairs - suspect given the cultural connection to the land, that is the case for FN's.

Short answer: yes. Slightly longer answer: There is an attempt to match DFO areas to asserted Traditional Territories - not an exact match - but close.

 

[ziggy]

Hate to be so negative, but the constant erosion of fishing opportunities for one single sector has become the norm rather than than the exception and IMO it’s more windowdressing than effective management.In a way you have to wonder,what is the point on constantly introducing stricter regulations when you can’t enforce the ones you already have?

I fish prawns in the Saanich Inlet prior to the Commercial season and then again sometimes near the end of the year, Pulse Fishing,in November and December. The reason is simple, after the Commercial fishery has taken their catch, there is very little point in fishing until the Prawns have a chance to rebound. Surely that says something?

The constant eroding of Recreational Fishing opportunities is risking the creation of public disobedience amongst fishers. Those of us who foolishly follow the rules start to wonder why? More and more people are saying screw it, we’re getting ripped off so who cares if anyone breaks the rules, especially when the chances of getting caught are slim.

I’m not advocating or condoning the breaking of the rules, but I am starting to understand why people do. Most honest people will follow rules so long as they are fair and just, but once you start instituting unfair ones, you better be prepared to enforce them because you can no longer expect people to keep following what is pretty much an honour system.

 

[seascene]

I sail the remotest part of this coast from spring to fall (retired, my chosen bucket list). In one large arm of an inlet a converted fish boat to rec use littered the bay with prawn and crab traps. He even had a large cage at the back of his boat to keep crab. Obviously this person (non native I observed, white as toilet paper) was unconcerned ...oblivious to any possibility of enforcement. In all my travel of nearly 15 years in this wilderness I have yet to see a CO. I agree with above poster that unless resource sharing has the ring of fairness... fisheries will decline.

 

[scott craven]

I’m not advocating or condoning the breaking of the rules, but I am starting to understand why people do. Most honest people will follow rules so long as they are fair and just, but once you start instituting unfair ones, you better be prepared to enforce them because you can no longer expect people to keep following what is pretty much an honour system.

Very true and it's happening now.

 

[UkeeDreamin]

You were in the room Pat when I said pretty much exactly this to the head of the DFO prawn team that made a presentation to the Port SFAC.

If you recall, I braced him with a very direct question: "Do you understand the definition of Insanity".
He bristled, and vigorously defended the model they continue to employ.
A model that is driving yet another species into extirpation on BC's coast.

And that, very much so, is INSANE IMHO.

Nog

Sadly, given the garbage they pass off as their halibut model, this doesn’t surprise me at all.

Cheers!

Ukee

 

[searun]

Another interesting factoid. Comparative Economic value per DFO's IFMP (Rec fishers don't sell yourself short)

Here's what DFO said about their rationale for lowering Rec Prawn limits....

"Over the last several decades, Prawn harvest has become an increasingly valuable and important part of BC’s fisheries. The commercial Prawn harvest is one of the most valuable fisheries in BC and First Nations are harvesting Prawn in increasing numbers for Food-Social-Ceremonial (FSC) purposes, often using commercial gear"


I also find it appalling that DFO doesn't check its own homework before making an absurd comment in their letter to the SFAB....

Commercial landed value of prawns has sharply declined. The landed value between 2013-2015 was $33.5 million to $38 million, then dropped to 16.1 million in 2016. The processing wages were $2.8 million - so total of $18.1 million. There may be other economic spin off values associated to expenditures for vessels, fuel etc, but I could not find that data.

Compare that to the Rec fishery, where the economic value was estimated at $36.4 million in prawn only fishery related expenditures.

My point is the economic value is very similar. Thus both fisheries are very strong contributors to Canada's economy.

I find it interesting when discussions about the commercial prawn fishery turn to how we need to protect the significant economic value it represents, that the recreational fishery has to be curtailed to protect it...when the values here say something different. Again, not tossing stones, just making a point that far too often DFO and even the rec community constantly sells short the economic value of recreational fishing.

 

[Capt_Ed]

So absolutely support sitting down and working responsibly together on these issues, respecting each other's needs and views. I would love to be sitting at a table with just the sectors - no DFO - so we can work it out. Pretty sure we would.

BE carefull what you wish for , I can only speak about my time at he table with the PHMA or HAB but it can be unbelievably frustrating , But when something is accomplished the rewards are worth it. Getting all involved together at the table and working something out would be a great thing in any of the fisheries but the bottom line is you have to involve DFO in the process to get the official result you seek

 

[Gong Show]

Inviting DFO at first instance would be counter productive.
Get an agreement in principal hammered out between user groups, them bring in DFO to talk implementation.
Top down, DFO lead processes either go nowhere or backwards.