Property Assessments

[seahorse]

the housing market only goes up

Well not always, historically, I’ll give 2 examples:

1. I bought a house in Comox in 1991 for $83,000, my neighbor listed his house as he was retiring and said to me that in 1981 he was offerred $99,000 for his house at lock up which was the same price that he had his house listed for in 1991, it took 10 years for the market to recover from the 1981 recession.

2. I sold that house in 1993 and bought another house for $179,000 and lived in it until our new house was built in 2002 on acreage. We had a Real Estate appraisal done on the house and sold it for $175,000 10 years later in Courtenay.

I realize this was a few years ago but prices can’t go up forever, in my opinion …

 

[wildmanyeah]

Fair enough on average real estate goes up 6% per year.

 

[Aquaholic]

Fair enough on average real estate goes up 6% per year.

Large corrections of 82, 97, 2008, 2012, 2018.

This is an average sales price graph, however market values are tied to most of the visible big corrections over more than 6-12 months that you see. 1982 had interest rates as high as 20% on mortgages, the correction in 82 looks small but it is because of the lower value, it still lost a large percentage of its previous value. 100K homes were selling for 60K.

 

[bigbruce]

It would be interesting to see the changing stats regarding Property Tax Deferral program (if any). Many of our friends are in the position where they can defer their taxes(age and paid for homes ) but financially most have decided to continue to pay their property taxes because like us they value the services provided by our taxes and for those of us who are are able to continue to pay property taxes, even more so for those of us who are childless we see an additional social and moral obligation to pay our taxes for the good of society.

However, as the publication of municipal salaries becomes easier for people to access, there seems to be more resistance to these individuals continuing to pay when they can defer.

In my job, I see the salaries of a lot of people, and I understand the value of being a government or municipal employee especially for the immense value of the retirement benefits both pension and health and welfare post retirement benefits.

For decades the common belief was that civil servants were paid less but their pension plan sort of leveled the field. I believe that the tide has turned and for the average person, their best financial decision would be to get a government job if for no other reason than the salaries are comparable and the retirement benefits provided are unattainable for the majority of Canadians.

What is happening is that people who we know who could defer and yet pay their taxes and now talking openly about deferring for the first time because they can, not because they need to.

This has the potential to create a cash crunch for municipal governments.

As someone who has multiple times appealed my property taxes , I am tired of having the same level of unmigrated ********
tossed about by BC Assessment. If every house on a street is on a 50 foot lot but one and that house is on a 30 foot lot I still find in incomprehensible that the value per square foot of that 30 foot lot is significantly higher.

I have been unable to find any academic study that argues or states that a smaller residential lot is worth more per square foot than a larger one. If anyone has such a study I would be grateful to get a copy.

Deferred taxes are essentially a loan from the Provincial Government upon which the homeowner pays an (albeit low) interest rate. The Province, in turn pays the tax owed to the local tax authorities, so no cash crunch for them. The deferred loans (including accrued interest) are registered against the property and repaid when the property is sold.
In other words, the local tax authorities get their dough, and the Provincial Government is the banker.

 

[Aquaholic]

Deferred taxes are essentially a loan from the Provincial Government upon which the homeowner pays an (albeit low) interest rate. The Province, in turn pays the tax owed to the local tax authorities, so no cash crunch for them. The deferred loans (including accrued interest) are registered against the property and repaid when the property is sold.
In other words, the local tax authorities get their dough, and the Provincial Government is the banker.

well put.

 

[bigbruce]

Scott
Does your municipality automatically put a lien on your property to guarantee payment?
Thanks
Stosh

Yes.

 

[Aquaholic]

Scott
Does your municipality automatically put a lien on your property to guarantee payment?
Thanks
Stosh

There is a charge on the title to the property.

Charges, Liens and Interests
Nature: LAND TAX DEFERMENT ACT AGREEMENT
Registration Number: BB123456789
Registration Date and Time: 2022-01-05 17:55
Registered Owner: THE CROWN IN RIGHT OF BRITISH COLUMBIA

 

[SpringVelocity]

I think the point is although it great houses are rising the wages in BC don't reflect the rise. It's great for people with equity even a couple with an upper middle class wage will struggle to qualify. Most banks use a stress test to finance. Well alot of us our lucky the ones that are just starting out with young families are in for rough ride.

 

[kingblazer84]

I think the point is although it great houses are rising the wages in BC don't reflect the rise. It's great for people with equity even a couple with an upper middle class wage will struggle to qualify. Most banks use a stress test to finance. Well alot of us our lucky the ones that are just starting out with young families are in for rough ride.

Hit the nail on the head, pre qualify at 5.25% and then have to have 20% down to not have cmhc added to the mortgage kills a lot of peoples ability to buy something. I know as
A first time homebuyer we did 5% but we bought so low it didn’t really effect us with the cmhc. The other brutal thing is we could sell our place and have 60k to put down on a new place yet we can’t buy a single family
Home! Can’t even qualify high enough to get a beater! And my wife and I are upper middle class earners.

single family homes are for the ultra rich or the people that bought in 5-10 years ago, that can sell for huge profit and still buy back into the market.

 

[Bill 310]

Housing prices will eventually have to decline. It is getting very difficult to work here

If a young couple both docs making 350,000 each and both saddled with monstrous student loans can't afford to buy .even a crappy townhouse that is within 30 minutes of one of the downtown hospitals, things are going to have to adjust.

As an employer it is impossible to hire staff. Someone with zero experience will need 50 K just to get by in Vancouver and unless they have partner or a room mate they will be living more often than not in a real dump


Moving is an adventure.

We moved to West Van from Toronto in 1983. Bought a house (Lewis Posit and Beam) for 192,500. Previous Owner had paid 385,000 two years prior. They were moving back east as the west and the housing market hadn't been kind to them

The Fridge and Stove were in deal. Day we moved in full size fridge and stove were gone and left in their place were a 2 burner electric stove and a bar fridge.

Agent thought it was kind of funny when they came by with the keys. Agent bought us a new fridge and stove.

Second house in West Van. I made the Agent list all serial numbers of the appliances in the deal and to close the deal they guaranteed in a side deal with us that the appliances Washer dryer fridge stove would be as listed or they would replace with new of our choice. It was a double ender commission for the agent. They thought I was a kook and agreed to the guarantee to make the sale.

Yep, all 4 appliances were replaced by garage sale items. but wait there was more

We had a very large dog and that house had really nice hardwood floors. The day after we closed we put down commercial office carpeting over the floors. Then we actually moved in the day following (our stuff was on a truck for two nights ) and we slept on air mattresses in new house.

Once the rugs are down we move in. I was sitting going through a box of papers we had found in the fireplace when there was a long, loud banging on the front door. I put down the fabulous and very acrimonious .divorce file that the previous owner had been a participant in ( I still have great sympathy for the husband) and had left behind

I open the door and it's the Sheriff and he asks for Ms Ex. I explain that we just bought the house 3 days ago and that we were still moving in. He asks if he can come in and I agree. I say, I would offer you a coffee or a cold drink but the previous owner stole all the appliances

He looks at me and says I have a court order to seize the hardwood floors. (no ****) for non payment. All he can see is carpet with boxes on it

Just then the dog (an Irish wolfhound ) trots over to say hello. I am close to 6'4"and the dog can put her front paws on my shoulder and look me in the eyes.

The Sheriff is no dummy, he sees this BFD , what appears to be brand new carpet, and he looks at me says, well I guess she must have taken the wood with her, thanks me for my time and off he goes.

Final moving story

Years later when we bough our house in Kits, we arrived at noon with the moving truck and 'Surprise" the sellers were still packing, ok they were starting to pack.

They asked us to help them.

Not a problem we took all their clothes out of the cupboards and rolled them up in their area rugs and put them on "our" front lawn. They had hired cleaners to clean the place but they couldn't clean because the house wasn't empty. I gave them some cash and some boxes and asked them nicely to help pack up the cupboards. The cleaners left soon after we arrived because he had only paid them for 90 minutes.

The husband then asked me if I could carry the bags from the garage out and give them to the movers to pack. It was more of a tell than an ask. Now we have a moving truck and 4 guys idling on the street at an hourly rate so I was willing to help.

He said some stuff still needs to be bagged in the garage and gave me a box of contractor garbage bags. I bagged "everything" up and carried it all out to the moving truck. I even bagged up a bunch of green "garbage" bags , some old paint tins, and two broken lawn chairs.

Three hours later they are moved out and our movers could start to move us in except we have to clean the house first. Fortunately my wife had put some cleaning stuff in the car including our vacuum. So we are vacuuming , sweeping and mopping like crazy for another hour .Then the movers can start to unpack us. Our movers are in a good mood because my sister in law did a sushi run and we feed the guys while they wait. One of our moving guys helps me clean out and bag the garage.

The next day the former owner calls us and says he needs to come by because he forgot to pack the shower curtain rod. You know the one that they sell at Cdn Tire, that have the spring in them and you twist to tighten

They were about 10 bucks back then. It was so grotty that I had already put it in the garbage out back.

I have some friend who are realtors and the stories they tell about sellers and buyers wowser

 

[ziggy]

I see where there are rumblings again of introducing some form of tax on houses assessed at over 1 million. I personally think any government who did this would face political suicide, but it shows they are thinking about it. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...home-prices-this-ubc-professor-thinks-so.html.

The assessment done on private property for the government has created a lot of on paper wealth, which in turn creates envy. The truth though is even if your house value on paper goes up 300K and it’s your residence , do you feel any wealthier?

Your residence is the roof over your head not an investment. It essentially has no bearing on your annual cash flow. It’s however a tempting target that the government will no doubt be looking at. Whether a tax annually or an inheritance transfer, they’ll want something.

On another note I’ve heard the property transfer tax branch has provided the government With more money than did the Liquor Distribution Branch. Lot of cash being made on high housing prices.

 

[Aquaholic]

On another note I’ve heard the property transfer tax branch has provided the government With more money than did the Liquor Distribution Branch. Lot of cash being made on high housing prices.

Thank you for the PTT, Bill Vander Zalm. Since 1987?

 

[absolon]

Author of that paper the article talks about is a professor in the public health faculty with a reputation for being woke and as an anti-wealth activist who likes the limelight. Don't think he's going to get much traction where it matters.

 

[pescador]

UBC is a hot bed for woke totalitarianism thinking. Weponizing 18 year old kids with zero life experience. They brainwash them to think these collectovist ideologies are good for humanity when they should be training them how to swing a hammer and save money with the idea of creating their own wealth. It’s hard not to go off topic when this topic covers the most wealth most of us will ever have and people are trying to steal it from you. Sorry Scott. As ‘Ole Vic Said‘, Just one mans view.

 

[Thunder21]

I think we need to remember that the south coast and the okanagan are arguably the nicest places in this entire country. I 100% feel for younger people looking to get a start but this mentality that someone should be able to graduate from high school in Vancouver or Victoria, get a job and deserve to own a house is bs. If you want a house in some of the nicest areas of the country it should take some sacrifice and that may include moving to somewhere more affordable to build equity with the hopes of making your way back to the best spots. Instead what some people are doing is refusing to leave the nice areas, spending all their money on rent in a basement suite and running around complaining about real estate costs and figuring out how the government can tank the market so they can get in. So in my opinion it’s not impossible to get in the market , it’s just not a lot of people are willing to do what it takes.

 

[Sitkaspruce]

Nothing like working hard for your stuff and some people want to tax it so those who don't work get some "free" stuff....

CMHC-funded group proposes surtax on homes over $1 million to address housing inequality

Generation Squeeze argues that the surtax could raise between $4.54 billion and $5.83 billion to go toward other housing projects

financialpost.com

Annual surtax of 0.2% on $1M+ homes could cool housing market: report | Globalnews.ca

An annual surtax of 0.2 percent on houses valued over $1 million could help reduce housing inequality and cool housing markets, a report says.

globalnews.ca

Cheers

SS

 

[Slabbedout]

The Fridge and Stove were in deal. Day we moved in full size fridge and stove were gone and left in their place were a 2 burner electric stove and a bar fridge.

Funny first house we bought was a private sale mier listed house in 2007,( my wife does conveyancing and her grandfather was a realtor so we figured private sale was easy and the seller gave us $3500 off for no buyers commission) . The house was 1948 and the original owner had passed and now the kids where cashing out dads place. Anyway I swear NOTHING had been done since the place was built, except the counter tops had been replaced with stone and it had new stainless appliances ( like still had the plastic ). I even said to my wife that the house looked off since the appliances didn’t fit the space properly and furniture was all brand new. We made the appliances part of the deal and they where gone when we took possession. The owner told us the appliances where all in the shed in the back yard now since they had to get the house cleaned. Turns out all the old appliances from the 60’s where in the shed. It took 2 months of back and forth with our lawyer to get the sellers to eventually pay up for new appliances. Guess that’s why using a realtor is a good idea.

 

[Teja]

Author of that paper the article talks about is a professor in the public health faculty with a reputation for being woke and as an anti-wealth activist who likes the limelight. Don't think he's going to get much traction where it matters.

The document itself is 67 pages long and while Kershaw receives report writing credits there were over 30 named working group members involved with the report and many more unnamed people involved with it ... while some are very competent and knowledgeable, the challenge is that the majority of the people named involved are either academics or government/crown employees (a combination that can have an audience). Wishful thinking but the report would benefit from more general public or private sector people: with broad practical experience with market forces; who have first hand experience with the impacts and consequences of regulatory policies; who are creators (versus redistributors) of wealth and jobs; who are investors of capital that requires a return; or, who take the risks that warrant the rewards.

The danger is that a "small" surtax on upper valued homes could sound less deadly and more ideologically appropriate to a socialistic politician than would say the broader elimination, or adjustment to, capital gains exemptions for investments or principal residences that gets floated from time to time and that they could lose elections over. All levels of government want to redistribute wealth from the haves to have nots and all levels of government have post COVID, financial indigestion that they are going to look for ways to deal with ... they will come after the haves but will try to do it in ways that least jeopardize their jobs and 4 year election cycles.

In attempt to stay on topic, the suggested surtax would be levied on Assessed values which, of course, may or may not approximate actual value and which effectively means one is taxed on mortgage debt also (it becomes a tax on capital vs a tax on wealth) ... it would be brutal and once in place would likely find a way to be increased over time.

 

[Foxsea]

Some folks are homeowners, some are investors and some are gamblers:
1) attempting arbitrage is really a tough mission and leverage has two edges.
2) expecting a "correction" may be very disappointing.
3) interest rate increases have little constraining effect when so many buyers have cash.
4) enormous internal and foreign demand outstrips supply so prices will rise. Economics 101.
5) housing supply will be short for the foreseeable future. Very few skilled tradespeople, materials shortages and supply chain constraints.
6) significant government interference or onerous taxation on real estate is a guaranteed fail at the polls.
7) real asset prices also reflect hidden inflation.
8) yes, we have lots of land but very little is serviced/serviceable and desirable.

 

[spring fever]

An

Nothing like working hard for your stuff and some people want to tax it so those who don't work get some "free" stuff....

CMHC-funded group proposes surtax on homes over $1 million to address housing inequality

Generation Squeeze argues that the surtax could raise between $4.54 billion and $5.83 billion to go toward other housing projects

financialpost.com

Annual surtax of 0.2% on $1M+ homes could cool housing market: report | Globalnews.ca

An annual surtax of 0.2 percent on houses valued over $1 million could help reduce housing inequality and cool housing markets, a report says.

globalnews.ca

Cheers

SS

Another Woke theory run up the flag pole to see who salutes!! Just another thinly disguised way for the gov't trying to dip their hands into the so-called capital gains on residential homes!! Remember idiots these are HOMES-there is no money or Capital gains unless they are sold and then if you have to buy again all that gain is gone-eaten up by land transfer tax and various other gov't fees.