Now That We Know TAC, What Should 2014 Limits Be?

Fish Assassin said:
Why narrow it down to those 2..... Don't need to answer that :)

Neither of those options raise the size of our second fish..... I'd rather a larger second fish then a pretend I want to kill a fish of a life time. Tourist still come from around the world to catch and release Sturgeon of all sizes. Why is it people don't think we can catch and release large halibut and still catch enough meat for our families.
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Agree FA
We need to raise the size of both fish
We cannot leave tac in the water
Let dfo shut us down if we go over. How many people Hali fish in oct nov and dec anyways
 
My thoughts exactly. I was told the shoulder options are too complicated by someone. Maybe complicated for monkeys, but luckily most who fish on the coast are not monkeys.

Packaging is 10x more complicated for current regs. Buddy talked with member of sfi and he said they would probably be the exact same regs this year as last? I'd lose it and just have a personal 80lb limit then haha jk
 
SerengetiGuide said:
My thoughts exactly. I was told the shoulder options are too complicated by someone. Maybe complicated for monkeys, but luckily most who fish on the coast are not monkeys.

Packaging is 10x more complicated for current regs. Buddy talked with member of sfi and he said they would probably be the exact same regs this year as last? I'd lose it and just have a personal 80lb limit then haha jk
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Too complicated for who?? We have clipped and not clipped coho rules up and down the coast that are scattered in subsections of areas all over hell. We have 77cm rule for Chinook that takes affect mid season and they too are defined by a line here aline there fish em here but not there .

I agree that the packaging and measuring is way more complicated and discouraging. than telling folks that for July and Aug you have a max size to go along with the 83cm second fish rule. This Rule stays the same coast wide and would be very easy to make this a condition of license.

Don't get me wrong I do not like the slot at all . But if we have to have one. I can not understand why people are promoting a slot that occupies the entire season when there is a solution being offered that can reduce that slot to only 2 months of the season. Not to mention provides access to 2 fish all year, big fish in the lower use months and it protects the big spawning females during the high use moths. Anyone who uses complicated as a reason to keep the current rule and have a double ended slot all year clearly has their own agenda in this and I clearly do not know how that agenda makes it better for the most people.
 
[QUOTE= and it protects the big spawning females during the high use moths.

Lets be clear.
No one is helping the big females.
Anything over 45 is probably a female.
And for every sacred female we release the commies kill 10!!!
 
Samnjoe said:
and it protects the big spawning females during the high use moths. Lets be clear. No one is helping the big females. Anything over 45 is probably a female. And for every sacred female we release the commies kill 10!!![/QUOTE said:
No Let me be clear. I am not saying we are actually having any measurable affect on the spawning recruitment by having an upper limit. Nor am I saying we do not. I personally do not like or think we should have an upper limit at all. I am however pointing out that this alternative solution dose provide those with the belief that one is needed, the two highest use months to employ a reg that dose in fact keep us from keeping the large fish.
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If they have the same regs as last year I am going to lose it big time. Hell open it mid March, say shut it down mid November, should be able to make the tac work with no size limit,( keep the small slot if you must if it is 2 possession but think about it you are allowed 6 fish and you are going to punch a ping pong paddle) and before someone chimes in that it is nice to go out in Dec. if you can't get your fish by then then something is wrong! Not to derail this thread but I have heard that as of this season you can only get your license electronically, so my question is how do you police the Americans now from coming over from Washington state and gobbling up our TAC???? Our govt. is so smart!
 
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So someone asked how about getting that second fish a little bigger like to 30lb.
This is well with in the math but the question is, would this change the way you fish?
Would anglers start to target halibut more now that we raised the weight of second fish?
Would you change from halibut by-catch when salmon fishing to lets target halibut.
Perhaps get and anchor and gear hit her hard?

Feb
Mar
Apr
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
Sep
Oct Nov Dec
Feb
Mar
Apr
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
Sep
Oct Nov Dec
Harvest
Bio-risk -10%
Total
2014 Tac

<tbody>
[TD="class: xl26"]Month[/TD]
[TD="class: xl27"]Option A.2[/TD]
[TD="class: xl27"]Option F[/TD]

[TD="class: xl26"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl27"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl27"]shoulder[/TD]

[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]2,247[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]2,247[/TD]

[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]29,905[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]29,905[/TD]

[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]23,666[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]24,435[/TD]

[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]31,012[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]28,958[/TD]

[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]222,772[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]236,883[/TD]

[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]302,065[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]282,535[/TD]

[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]302,211[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]274,378[/TD]

[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]37,911[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]36,619[/TD]

[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]6,629[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]7,263[/TD]

[TD="class: xl24"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl24"][/TD]

[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]2,247[/TD]

[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]29,905[/TD]

[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]24,435[/TD]

[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]28,958[/TD]

[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]236,883[/TD]

[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]302,065[/TD]

[TD="class: xl24, align: right"]302,211[/TD]

[TD="class: xl25, align: right"]36,619[/TD]

[TD="class: xl25, align: right"]7,263[/TD]

[TD="class: xl25, align: right"]970,586[/TD]

[TD="class: xl25, align: right"]97,059[/TD]

[TD="class: xl25, align: right"]1,067,645[/TD]

[TD="class: xl25, align: right"]1,057,950[/TD]

[TD="class: xl26"]over/under[/TD]
[TD="class: xl28, align: right"](9,695)[/TD]

</tbody>

Over the TAC by 9,695 lbs - not bad.... and well within margin of error and it's only 1% off the bio-risk


<tbody>
[TD="class: xl24"]Measure[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24"]Open[/TD]
[TD="class: xl25"]Daily[/TD]
[TD="class: xl25"]Possession[/TD]
[TD="class: xl25"]Annual[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24, width: 110"]1st Fish Size[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24, width: 85"]2nd Fish size[/TD]

[TD="class: xl24"]a.2[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24"]July1 -Aug 31[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24"]2[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24"]6[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24"]126 cm/60lb[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24"]102 cm/30lb[/TD]

[TD="class: xl24"]f[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24"]Feb 1 - Dec 31 Shoulders[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24"]1[/TD]
[TD="class: xl25"]2[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24"]6[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24"]none[/TD]
[TD="class: xl24"]83 cm/15lb[/TD]

</tbody>
 
Good work GLG, I can live with the slot thing if we have the shoulder season, I will just fish my halibut on either side, but to keep it the same as last year is nuts! GLG what do you think about the electronic license and the American influence??
 
Well have to agree with you on this one now purple.....
 
Purple Hazer said:
If they have the same regs as last year I am going to lose it big time. Hell open it mid March, say shut it down mid November, should be able to make the tac work with no size limit,( keep the small slot if you must if it is 2 possession but think about it you are allowed 6 fish and you are going to punch a ping pong paddle) and before someone chimes in that it is nice to go out in Dec. if you can't get your fish by then then something is wrong! Not to derail this thread but I have heard that as of this season you can only get your license electronically, so my question is how do you police the Americans now from coming over from Washington state and gobbling up our TAC???? Our govt. is so smart!
Click to expand...

Get ready to lose it. I doubt DFO will get of their a**es and change anything this year. Kinda skeptical right now :(
 
If your one to believe we can still make changes for this year give yourself a pinch your dreaming....... I believe the plans for this season has already be made.
 
yes if they can change to a yearly limit and pass it within 2 weeks and get put on the lic. anything can be done IF they want to is the question told you guys last year once its in place HARD for DFO to change....
 
Purple Hazer said:
Good work GLG, I can live with the slot thing if we have the shoulder season, I will just fish my halibut on either side, but to keep it the same as last year is nuts! GLG what do you think about the electronic license and the American influence??
Click to expand...

I had a conversation with someone in DFO a few years back about electronic license. he told me they added up the cost of the paper based system and found it cost them just under 100 bucks each. I was shocked but he told me that all the people involved with dealing with the paper from keyboard operators to outsource the printing it adds up. The new system would cut cost by a lot. Me.... I like the old paper mostly because in my case I end up doing the internet system for friends and family and find it's not as trouble free as you would think. I'm fine on the dfo stuff but the payment end does have it's issues. Now that the paper system is gone I can see lot's of problems for guides that have clients show up with no license. Don't know how they will solve that problem. I'm not a guide so I have not paid that much attention to the issue. I don't know what the US influence is. If your talking about the issue with Halibut fishing with the US fishing in Canadian waters and getting an e-licence .... Yea that's a problem... Don't know how they will solve that one.
 
Yes GLG it is in regards to the Americans fishing our quota, as it stands now they must come to Canada and get a hard copy license then go back to the States and then they can cruise over and fish our grounds. This stopped all the charter operators from Washington State just buzzing over to our waters with their clients and catching halibut. Now if it is only electronic it looks to be back to the old rape and pillage :( Oh and by the way phoned DFO on this and they don't know anything, go figure!
 
They can make it so they have to be on Canadian soil via IP address could they not??
 
GLG said:
I had a conversation with someone in DFO a few years back about electronic license. he told me they added up the cost of the paper based system and found it cost them just under 100 bucks each. I was shocked but he told me that all the people involved with dealing with the paper from keyboard operators to outsource the printing it adds up. The new system would cut cost by a lot. Me.... I like the old paper mostly because in my case I end up doing the internet system for friends and family and find it's not as trouble free as you would think. I'm fine on the dfo stuff but the payment end does have it's issues. Now that the paper system is gone I can see lot's of problems for guides that have clients show up with no license. Don't know how they will solve that problem. I'm not a guide so I have not paid that much attention to the issue. I don't know what the US influence is. If your talking about the issue with Halibut fishing with the US fishing in Canadian waters and getting an e-licence .... Yea that's a problem... Don't know how they will solve that one.
Click to expand...

As one of those awful Americans who did cross the line a few times last year and who caught 1 hali on my own license, the rule has been "Only a Canadian resident may fish for halibut under an electronic license in Areas 23, 121 and 123. If you are a non-resident and wish to fish for halibut in management areas 23, 121 and 123 you must purchase a paper license from a vendor in Canada." Hence I traveled to Canada to get my license. I believe that much of the logic behind that rule was to prevent guides in Neah Bay from taking clients across to fish hali in Canadian waters as the e-licenses make it too easy for someone to just show up at the dock on the U.S. side, get a license that day and fish with a guide on the Canadian side. So if this rule stays in place as currently written, without a paper license being available areas 23, 121 and 123 would be off limits to all non-Canadians. I certainly won't argue against that as I can see that many Canadians would argue that such a restriction is entirely appropriate in an era of limited TAC. However, I can also see that if a Canadian guide's business depends on a being able to fish non-canadians for halibut, they might not like such a restriction (that's a hypothetical, I really don't know if this would be much of a problem for guides, especially since salmon probably make up a large fraction of their work). If it turns out that I can't fish hali in 2014 in Canadian waters, that would be a minor disappointment for me, but not a big deal. I understand the need to use the resource to benefit the greatest number of Canadians.

I can see a few possible regulation changes that might address some of the problems above. First, one could change the regs so that any non Canadian fishing hali in certain areas must be accompanied by a Canadian guide. That would solve the issue I mentioned above re: guides and their potential revenue loss. It would be a simple change and would be good for any guides who fish non-Canadians in areas 23, 121 and 123. An alternative that would make it harder for guides in Neah Bay to take Americans into Canada to fish hali would be to put a waiting period on the electronic licenses - e.g. a non Canadian fishing in areas 23, 121 and 123 would have to have purchased the license some number of days in advance in order to do so. This would prevent the spur of the moment trips with guides out of Neah Bay but wouldn't stop those who plan their trips well in advance. Finally, another alternative might be to charge a premium to the non Canadians who wish to fish those areas on an electronic license. For example, one could charge an extra $100 or $150 to allow one to fish in those areas. That would probably make the potential one day guided trips out of Neah Bay financially unattractive. It would also make the cost of a halibut to the average non-Canadian fairly steep. E.g. from the "How many hali did you catch in 2013" thread it would appear that the average take per person was around 30#. If one believes that average poundage, charging $150 would be roughly equivalent to the $5/lb paid for buying TAC from the commercial guys (plus or minus a little). The extra revenue brought (if any) could be used by DFO in a variety of ways - perhaps to buy back TAC from the commercial side or perhaps to pay for more enforcement. I know the idea of DFO buying TAC for non-Candians will potentially be unpopular for the many reasons stated previously (especially the idea that TAC should never have been given away to the commercial sector in the first place). However, it's an idea that might permit some non Canadians to fish hali on electronic licenses in areas 23,121 and 123 without it affecting the recreational TAC.
 
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