Sharphooks
Well-Known Member
Some times having AIS is scary....
New VHF - add AIS Option?
- Thread starter the force
- Start date
the force
Crew Member
Thanks for the link Kael, it did confirm a single antenna is adequate and no splitter needed. Nice resource.
You could also end up providing the exact locations of your favorite Halibut holes, crab/prawn spots and help the weekend warriors decide where to fish, as they could track down where specific guides and frequent experienced fishers are dropping their lines that day, and over an entire season for that matter, even from the comfort of your home computer.
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I would think getting radar before you get an AIS receiver is the way to go. The radar gives you real time location of other boats and ships and the AIS provides useful augmented information. AIS transmitters provide the location of the ship/boat at a specific point in time. The higher class and more expensive AIS transmitters provide more frequent updates so that the location, direction of travel etc is more accurate. I am wondering that if I was out there in thick fog with only an AIS receiver, if I would know if an in close, especially a lower class AIS transmitting boat was right in front of me or right behind me, or closer to me than it appears on the screen, depending on how far it travels between location updates. Still useful info to have though.
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SpringVelocity
Crew Member
2nd that. I would have just saved my money and got a radar honestly.
I also disagree that that having radar in smaller boat isn't a good investment. I use mine a lot not just in the fog especially with the chart overlay.
I also disagree that that having radar in smaller boat isn't a good investment. I use mine a lot not just in the fog especially with the chart overlay.
I agree completely. Relying on AIS as a collision avoidance tool is of very limited utility when you are worried about small fast boats, to the point where it's more likely a dangerous false sense of security if you rely on it. So few small boats have AIS transmitters it's almost of zero value. You will see the larger vessels, tugs, some fish boats, freighters, coast guard zodiacs etc, but the 18' hourston that's about to come out of the fog 100' in front of you, you won't know they are there. Even if they had an AIS transmitter, the high speed and update frequency combine to make close quarters information unreliable. For avoiding collisions with small fast boats in poor visibility conditions, radar is the gold standard in my opinion.
wdlfbio
Well-Known Member
A VHF with MMSI and DSC is something everyone should want. If something goes south, hit the panic button and send who you are and where you are. It’s not very expensive. Upgrading to one that receives AIS can be useful. Sometimes we’ve seen a couple boat grouped up “over there” based on their AIS signal. We headed over and joined in on the fish catching. And yes, it can show SOME vessels in the fog. Rarely will little boats have a transmitting AIS, so it does nothing for showing those. That takes radar, which is at least $1k. I’d rather have radar over receiving AIS, but one can upgrade to a better vhf with AIS for much less than a radar.
Sharphooks
Well-Known Member
Radar is a good investment on any size boat. It’s helpful not only for collision avoidance but it can be a valuable nav tool when you’re in unfamiliar waters and you’re trying to thread the needle around rocks, island chains and reefs.
AIS in receiver mode is helpful for situational awareness in the fog in crowded passes etc. but I’ve also found it useful for getting a vessel’s name in an overtaking and passing situation in the fog or when cutting across a vessel’s path in the fog —- nice to hail by vessel name when making your VHF contact to announce nav intentions.
AIS in receiver mode is helpful for situational awareness in the fog in crowded passes etc. but I’ve also found it useful for getting a vessel’s name in an overtaking and passing situation in the fog or when cutting across a vessel’s path in the fog —- nice to hail by vessel name when making your VHF contact to announce nav intentions.
Big ships: ferries, freighters, war ships etc. can go a lot faster than a lot of us rec. boaters think. Even in clear weather their speed can be deceiving and while we may have to slow down in some sea states, they usually do not. There is very high boat and ship traffic in JDF where we fish. There are also lots and increasing numbers of smaller and med. size, some of which are very fast (often commercial) boats (Whale watcher boats, Large fishing boats, Pilot boats, Pollution response boats, Police, Military, Coastguard, DFO and other federal boats, Royal Life Saving boats and large fast, multi-million dollar yachts that are AIS transmitter equip. It seems like there are more every year.
It would be interesting to see a chart of the maximum possible AIS position error for boats/ships traveling at various speeds for each of the various AIS class transmitters. In short, how much of an issue is this?
There are situations where have an AIS receiver can be very useful. In the summer off Sooke, there are a fair number of tugs towing barges and log booms. In fog I have seen strong signatures on the radar screen and a much stronger radar signature a ways off and wonder if it is a tug towing. If you have AIS you could identify the first smaller signature as a tug which could indicate that it is not two separate boats but a tug towing a barge with a very long cable between them. That is something you want to know in the fog.
It would be interesting to see a chart of the maximum possible AIS position error for boats/ships traveling at various speeds for each of the various AIS class transmitters. In short, how much of an issue is this?
There are situations where have an AIS receiver can be very useful. In the summer off Sooke, there are a fair number of tugs towing barges and log booms. In fog I have seen strong signatures on the radar screen and a much stronger radar signature a ways off and wonder if it is a tug towing. If you have AIS you could identify the first smaller signature as a tug which could indicate that it is not two separate boats but a tug towing a barge with a very long cable between them. That is something you want to know in the fog.
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the force
Crew Member
What are you seeing/using it for when vis is good? This is coming from the perspective of not using radar previously.
the force
Crew Member
I don’t disagree that radar is best and I’ll own the fact that I may not be going fishing, or atleast not going anywhere fast if the fog is thick.
I’m not overly trustful of others safety conscience, though from the perspective of probability (yes I know there are drunks and meatheads), if there is a small vessel moving at a clip in the fog, they themselves should be using radar, and not smashing into another vessel at trolling speed?
Saxe Point
Well-Known Member
The beauty of AIS is that you can see the deceptively fast large commercial vessels so early that they are easy to stay away from. It’s the small boats going at high speed in the fog because they have radar and they believe they will see everything that I detest. This is extreme negligence and I have seen many close calls. It’s only a matter of time before a tragedy results. Slow down in zero or reduced visibility! Radar doesn’t always see everything, especially if it’s non-metallic and doesn’t have a radar reflector. I won’t fish crowded places in fog because of irresponsible boaters like these high speed overconfident boaters with radar.
BC Coast Pilot
Well-Known Member
Just looking at the GX 2400, it has all you need with DSC and AIS receive.
600 is a good price, they are 560 wholesale. Go for it.
If you use a combined antenna, there are specific antenna that are good for both AIS and VHF frequencies
Fritz
Active Member
Attachments
I can see how having AIS is useful for seeing large ships at a distance to avoid them well in advance, not that I want to be anywhere near the shipping lanes when fishing for salmon in the fog. Its not that I can't see them at 24 miles with the radar, it's that I usually have the radar set for close range when we fish close to shore in a lot of traffic with 60 other small boats near by. In that situation I care less what is 15 miles away, I care what is within a kilometer or less and it is lot easier to keep situational awarness of all those small boats when set to close range.
I like to keep my speed down when going to the fishing grounds in the fog, and reduce travel range in the fog to fishing speed soon after as we get outside of the harbour. It seems the older I get, the slower I go. Got to say, it does freak me out when we are fishing right off Sooke harbour in thick fog and we hear the high speed whine of a large outboard, then the doppler frequency shift in sound as it passes and starts going away from you on its way to Otter Point, followed by their wake rocking the boat a few seconds later. If you are looking at the radar or chartplotter, you are not looking out the window. One of the many reasons I no longer fish alone. I am also surprised how many boats don't travel and fish in the fog with their running lights on. Upgraded the boat to much brighter and low amp draw LED running lights which we keep on all the time in the fog.
It is useful to use your radar on flat clear days to learn to match actual location with what you see on the radar. I know our boat has a lot of metal on it and a radar reflector and has a great radar signature from any direction. It often surprises me which boats have great radar signatures and which don't. Sometimes it is the opposite of what you would think. Sometimes they have a good radar signature going across you but almost none coming right at you. In the rollers you sometimes see a weak radar signature flash on and off for a second as they come up out of the wave trough. Sea state makes a difference.
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the force
Crew Member
Thanks again to all for the debate and discussion, I’m all for hearing the different perspectives to better understand the various uses and benefits.
Perhaps I am wrong but I am under the impression that many commercial boats are required to have an AIS transceiver. I am curious if it is legal for a commercial boat or even a non-comercial boat equipped with an AIS transmitter to turn it off while under way? If it is legal, I wonder what your marine insurance company would think about it? I have noticed some AIS transmitter equipped commercial boats don't disable their AIS transmitter even when the boat is sitting at the dock. They just keep transmitting their location showing the ship/boat as at the dock or anchored.On my lowrance link 9 I can turn the mode B transponder off.
So I’ve heard
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Sharphooks
Well-Known Member
US= 20 meters and up = illegal for commercial boats and vessels 20M+ to turn it off when operating within the 12 mile EEZ
Not sure what Canadian laws are
QUOTE
The Coast Guard issued a warning yesterday to mariners and commercial fisherman about the dangers and legal consequences of disabling a vessel's automated identification system.
The Coast Guard has seen an alarming increase of commercial fishing and crabbing vessels disabling their AIS, purportedly in an attempt to keep their fishing spots secret from competition.
"AIS is a vital tool in a host of Coast Guard missions including search and rescue and port security," said Lt. Collin Gruin, boarding team supervisor at Coast Guard Sector Columbia River. "It's not only illegal to turn it off but also incredibly dangerous."
AIS is a maritime navigation safety communications system adopted by the international community to help save lives and facilitate safe transit of navigable waterways.
AIS automatically transmits vessel information to shore stations, other ships, and aircraft. That includes vessel identity, type, position, course, speed, navigational status, and safety-related information.
The regulation (33 CFR 164.46) in part states that all self-propelled vessels, at a length of 65 feet or more, engaged in commercial service and operating on the territorial seas (within 12-nautical miles of shore) must maintain AIS in effective operating condition, which includes the continual operation of AIS and its associated devices (e.g., positioning system, gyro, converters, displays) at all times while the vessel is underway or at anchor, and, if moored, at least 15 minutes prior to getting underway.
Effective operation condition also includes the accurate input and upkeep of all AIS data fields. An AIS encoding guide has been provided to facilitate complying with this requirement.
Violators of this regulation can expect to receive a civil penalty up to a maximum of $35,486 per violation.
"Crabbers may think that they are protecting their businesses, but they are actually making search and rescue efforts more difficult if an emergency happens at sea," said Gruin.
UNQUOTE
Not sure what Canadian laws are
QUOTE
The Coast Guard issued a warning yesterday to mariners and commercial fisherman about the dangers and legal consequences of disabling a vessel's automated identification system.
The Coast Guard has seen an alarming increase of commercial fishing and crabbing vessels disabling their AIS, purportedly in an attempt to keep their fishing spots secret from competition.
"AIS is a vital tool in a host of Coast Guard missions including search and rescue and port security," said Lt. Collin Gruin, boarding team supervisor at Coast Guard Sector Columbia River. "It's not only illegal to turn it off but also incredibly dangerous."
AIS is a maritime navigation safety communications system adopted by the international community to help save lives and facilitate safe transit of navigable waterways.
AIS automatically transmits vessel information to shore stations, other ships, and aircraft. That includes vessel identity, type, position, course, speed, navigational status, and safety-related information.
The regulation (33 CFR 164.46) in part states that all self-propelled vessels, at a length of 65 feet or more, engaged in commercial service and operating on the territorial seas (within 12-nautical miles of shore) must maintain AIS in effective operating condition, which includes the continual operation of AIS and its associated devices (e.g., positioning system, gyro, converters, displays) at all times while the vessel is underway or at anchor, and, if moored, at least 15 minutes prior to getting underway.
Effective operation condition also includes the accurate input and upkeep of all AIS data fields. An AIS encoding guide has been provided to facilitate complying with this requirement.
Violators of this regulation can expect to receive a civil penalty up to a maximum of $35,486 per violation.
"Crabbers may think that they are protecting their businesses, but they are actually making search and rescue efforts more difficult if an emergency happens at sea," said Gruin.
UNQUOTE
Fritz
Active Member
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