Need some NMEA 2000 Help

[sir-vivor]

I receintly attached a EP-60 Fuel Sensor to my engines' (1998 200HP Ocean Pro) fuel line.
I Have a HDS8 Gen 2. So I attached the sensor to the NEMA 2000 system that I have through the systems Backbone as follows: from the last tee on the backbone , I removed the terminator and added a Lowrance extention to another tee, at that tee I attached the terminator which ended the backbone and then attached the sensor to that same tee (all cords and tees are lowrance) . I extended the backbone due to the fuel sensor cord not being long enough and it was recommended to extend the backbone where longer lengths are needed.

I did all the recomended set ups on the HDS8 to have the Fuel Sensor numbers reflect on the Charts
I made the adjustments to one tank and one engine and noted a full tank.
I then took the boat out on a sea trial and turned on the HDS8 and started the engine.
At first nothing showed up just ---- ---- in the
After about 5 min the numbers did show up (as noted below , bottom left corner of the screen (58 and 1.29) so it was working



I then switched to another window on the HDS8 and then back to the Chart and again the number did not
show up all that showed up was ---- ------. and I still cant get it to work again (the chart and other options are working just not the Fuel Sensor information).

I looked at the HDS8 page regarding "Devises hooked up" and the EP-60 fuel sensor is not showing up.

I don't know what I did wrong but since it worked once , I can only assume the settings on my HDS8 are correct but I'm thinking it might be a faulty cord or tee.

I am going to swap out the cord and tee's with new ones and if that fails then its got to be the EP-60 fuel sensor its self .

What do you guys think ?????

Clint

 

[Hookin'up]

Clint,
you dont say how the sensor itself is mounted. as I recall when I did mine on the last boat there is an arrow on the sensor itself that MUST be pointed in an upward direction and not just indicate fuel flow, also a small inline filter should be installed just ahead of the sensor. the smallest of debris can cause the paddle wheel inside to stick even though fuel can still flow thru, also I do remember being warned to make positively sure it was corrected just right in the network as the internal electrics in the sensor can fry very easily.
I believe there is a good write up on thehulltruth.com

 

[sir-vivor]

Thanks for your comments Hookin'up and excellent points made.
Roger on all of your points above except the inline filter because I have a racor installed just before it (2ft away).
I just find it very odd that the EP-60 fuel flow sensor is not noted on my "Devises Attached" screen on my HDS8 Gen2 , I'm thinking your right that it is fried or some how lost its connection.
Very odd

 

[aheny]

I assume you used a NMEA 2000 starter kit to supply 12VDC to the backbone? (I wasn't sure if you were just adding a new device onto the end of an existing working backbone, or if this is a new network?)

 

[sir-vivor]

I assume you used a NMEA 2000 starter kit to supply 12VDC to the backbone? (I wasn't sure if you were just adding a new device onto the end of an existing working backbone, or if this is a new network?)

Yes it began with the starter kit but since added a point antenna for the Radar for overlay and now the fuel sensor. So I have on the starter kit, the antenna and my HDS8 GEN2 and the fuel sensor along the backbone to a terminator as described in my post.
Any Ideas. I'm going to change the cable and tee and Harbour Chandlers sending me another sensor so should find the problem. I hope!

 

[wildthing]

are you using tee's or the 4 way block i had issues with my ep-65 which is level sensor on the 4 way block
Navico sent me two new ones of a different style
also check in the menu's/ manual for nema diagnostic
Moose from HC should be your go to guy there

 

[sir-vivor]

are you using tee's or the 4 way block i had issues with my ep-65 which is level sensor on the 4 way block
Navico sent me two new ones of a different style
also check in the menu's/ manual for nema diagnostic
Moose from HC should be your go to guy there

Its the Tee's I'm using.
Didn't see anything in my HDS8 menue or manual for NEMA diagnostic but will look a little bit more .
Is Moose , Carlos ??? I have been talking to Carlos from HC but if not the same guy would prefer to speak to someone with a bit more knowledge about NMEA
Thanks
Clint

 

[wildthing]

i have Simrad which is similar but if you look on " the hull truth" forum you may find a but more info

 

[TenMile]

Couple of things you can troubleshoot.

First -- confirm that the NMEA 2000 power cable is drawing >12V of power with a multi-meter. It could very well be that the power cable is loose and there isn't sufficient power in the network for both the EP60 and your heading sensor. How have you connected power to the NMEA 2000 backbone?

Eliminate the simple -- take apart your Tee's, visually inspect them (make sure no pins are bent/missing) and reassemble -- make sure they are snug.

Next, eliminate one of the Tee's as an issue by swapping the port the EP-60 is connected to with another NMEA 2000 device that already works and see if things change.

Finally - the EP-60 will only measure fuel flow from 0.6GPH and up (sometime less but can be unreliable). If you have it connected to a kicker or you're just idling at the dock there may not be enough fuel flow to measure -- however, you did mention your network isn't even seeing the sensor.... but just in case.

 

[sir-vivor]

Couple of things you can troubleshoot.

First -- confirm that the NMEA 2000 power cable is drawing >12V of power with a multi-meter. It could very well be that the power cable is loose and there isn't sufficient power in the network for both the EP60 and your heading sensor. How have you connected power to the NMEA 2000 backbone?

Eliminate the simple -- take apart your Tee's, visually inspect them (make sure no pins are bent/missing) and reassemble -- make sure they are snug.

Next, eliminate one of the Tee's as an issue by swapping the port the EP-60 is connected to with another NMEA 2000 device that already works and see if things change.

Finally - the EP-60 will only measure fuel flow from 0.6GPH and up (sometime less but can be unreliable). If you have it connected to a kicker or you're just idling at the dock there may not be enough fuel flow to measure -- however, you did mention your network isn't even seeing the sensor.... but just in case.

Hey Ten Mile,

I have the power cable to the NMEA attached to a fuse box fed by one of the two batteries in my system.
Where would I attach the Multi-meter to, to the fuse on the power to the backbone?

I have checked all connections but have not actual checked each of the connections pins , good point will check each pin.

The sensor is only hooked up to my 200HP Ocean pro not the kicker

I am thinking since it did work for a short period and now it isn't and is not showing up on the devices page of my HDS8, its got to me a connection problem, somewhere. So going to look at all the pins on the system, the swap over the last tee and cable extension I added. If its still not working put in a new sensor and if that doesn't work ship it all back and call it a day lol

Thanks Ten Mile ! and WT !

Clint

 

[TenMile]

Yeah stick your multimeter on the pins at your fuse panel. Want to make sure powers connected and good, good fuse, good connection etc...

Other thing to check -- going from memory here but I think on the Lowrance Network screen there is a Discover Devices tool. I have found before that the Lowrance unit can forget about a device. It will show up but be unallocated as an available device you can use. If reassigned it will work.

 

[sir-vivor]

Yeah stick your multimeter on the pins at your fuse panel. Want to make sure powers connected and good, good fuse, good connection etc...

Other thing to check -- going from memory here but I think on the Lowrance Network screen there is a Discover Devices tool. I have found before that the Lowrance unit can forget about a device. It will show up but be unallocated as an available device you can use. If reassigned it will work.

Just thinking ; my NMEA system powers my HDS8 , right ! so if I look at the power draw page on the HDS8 and it shows 12v , then shouldn't that be the same for the sensor feed, since both devises are running along the same NMEA backbone ?

Thanks for the info on the Network screen (Discover Devices tool) , I don't even know where that is on my HDS8 but gonna look for it tomorrow for sure !

Thanks Again !

 

[TenMile]

Your HDS8 has it's own power cable/connector that is unique from the NMEA2000 devices. In the NMEA2000 starter kit you got, one of the Tee's should have a 12v power cable that you connect to power. That can be connected to the same fused connection you connected your HDS unit to -- its not a bad idea to wire it to an Accessory switch if you have a spare as the NMEA2000 network will constantly draw a small amount of power to power up devices. The EP60 will draw a small amount of power it needs off the NMEA2000 backbone -- Point-1 is the same.

Here's a diagram of what your NMEA backbone should look like -- note that this diagram is designed to show that you should not connect your power cable at the end of your NMEA network -- it should be in the middle:

Good article here: http://www.panbo.com/archives/2009/03/nmea_2000_power_problem_part_2.html

 

[TenMile]

So I think you may have things hooked up incorrectly.

First, you need 2 terminators - one at either end of the network. One will have a male connector, the other a female.

Your power cable and all devices should be connected to the Top of the Tees. The sides of the Tees are simply used to connect Tees to one another not for devices.

I think you need one more Tee, and then reconnect the terminator you removed from the first diagram. Check out the diagram I posted.

Your Diagram 1 is correct and would work if you added another Tee to your network. Swap the positions where the HDS8 connected and where the power connected so that the power Tee is in the middle of the devices.

 

[sir-vivor]

Here is how my NMEA system is set up , maybe I should move the power to the middle and also attached the EP-60 to the backbone with a T along side of the others and terminate it and then use a dropdown cable from a T to the sensor and eliminating the extension ??
They say you can extend the backbone over 100 meters and not loose power however should not exceed 15 feet with a dropdown cord from a T. (I could be wrong ), I need at least 16 feet.
Its crazy that the sensor only comes with 10 feet of cable (cash grab by Lowrance as they know we will need to purchase an additional cable and T )



please disregard the spelling errors , no spell check lol

 

[TenMile]

Ah ok, THAT diagram is correct. The earlier one you posted was not. Try swapping the power cable position -- it certainly won't hurt.

 

[sir-vivor]

Ya, think I am going to take the extension off and take the T from it and attach it to the backbone and then terminate it (get rid of that 15 extension cable).
Then take a 6 foot (shortest I can use if it fits) drop down cable , attach it to the that t on the back bone and connect the cable to the sensor.
I am also going to put the power between the Point 1 and HDS as well.
Thanks for the heads up on the switch ... going to put that in too , no use chewing up power when u don't need it
Thanks again TenMile !
Clint

 

[sir-vivor]

Well thanks to Tenmile and Wildthing, I was able to find the problem and hopefully with a wet test it will be a 100% fix.

The Problem Was; The power cord for the NMEA 2000 system was connected to a switch that was also for the Radar. So if I the power to the Radar (G3) off, then the whole NMEA 2000 system was powered down. This was fine when I had only the Point 1 hooked to the backbone BUT by doing this any and all additional devises would be turned off as well. Since I need power to the NMEA 2000 to run the Fuel Sensor and not the Radar as often this was a problem and a stupid mistake.
So I ran a solo switch to the Radar (G3) and another switch to the NMEA 2000 system (I just have to make sure I turn on the NMEA switch but that will be evident with
the HDS8 not picking up the sensor and I'll know to turn it on and also the Radar will note tune up unless the power switch is turned to ON, so all should work out.
In summary I could have just taken off the MNEA 2000 system power feed from the Radar (G3) and route it to the fuse box then all would have been fine but it is now noted that a switch should be added to the NMEA 20000 system to eliminate all draw (They didn't say if you have boat switches your safe so I opted for the switch at the helm)
I now see (which was not seen before the change) the Point 1 and EP-60R Fuel Sensor on my list of devises (and the EP-60R is also noted on my data sources), so now with a wet test tomorrow maybe I'll get the readings I was hoping for.

Clint

 

[wildthing]

nice for the feedback as nema trouble shooting is a right royal pain
hopefully your all sorted

if you need any tees give me a shout or HC will be able to sort things for you did you end up with the 15' cable spare?
may trade you for it if so
regards john

 

[sir-vivor]

Well not quite gotter done yet lol
I was successful getting the HDS8 picking up the signals with your guys help and Moose at HC, (great guy, wealth of knowledge and willingness to help, great guy), thanks for the reference.
BUT, I still got an issue with no Datta being transmitted to the HDS on my last trip out, so I'm going to swap out the tee, then the cable... Maybe one of them are faulty and finally the sensor as Moose sent me another one so it's trial and error. Will let u know what I got left (cables)
Thanks again