Mainstream defamation case dismissed ...

[Birdsnest]

What a mess...... Well Birdsnest, thanks for at least taking the time to explain your opinions and write back to people. I've never heard someone back salmon farms before let alone hear it from a fellow sport fisherman. I still find it almost impossible to accept that you truly don't think there's anything wrong with the salmon farming industry. I'm sure they've made improvements over the years as you claim but I think that only minimizes damage and not even close to an acceptable level. The open net pen salmon farms are literally an ongoing science experiment, with the environment paying the price for all the mistakes. From my own personal experiences I find the industry is very shady with lots to hide, which is actually easy to accomplish because most farm sites are out of sight and out of mind from the average joe. I know that you know that farmed salmon stomachs are packed with salmon fry every year in the spring....... I watched all the fry jumping around as they migrated north this past spring and it made me sick to my stomach thinking of how many thousands must just end up as free feed for ATLANTIC salmon.

Anyways, I'm scared for the future of wild salmon....

I do not know that farm fish are full of fry. I am not sure where you are getting that but there have been study's and the DFO, like'em or not, have and continue to sample stomach contents of farmed fish. I cant find the studys for the life of me but surely charlie knows at least 3 that I am talking about. 2 of the studies even include the use of lights. Interesting stuff. Charlie? you there? Go ahead and post them. All of them. Not just the ones that suite your opinion, got it?

 

[Dave]

Dave I am sure you drive many to use language that they might not otherwise use. You should not be offended and nor am I.
Why don't you just stop posting and reading this site if the language bothers you.
From what I see of your posts, you clearly support fish farms for reasons known only to you, despite their dismal record elsewhere.
In my opinion, if we don't stop open ocean fish farming of Atlantic Salmon in our waters, it's only a matter of time before the BC fish farms repeat the tragic results experienced elsewhere.
Would you like to share with us exactly how many Atlantic salmon you have lost to disease this year on the West Coast??
The number is so high you and your owners are considering or have already gone to our Government to ask for financial support...how sick is that!!!
Why would anyone in their right mind support fish farms and take the risk that comes along with them, unless it is, as probably in your case, for personal gain!
I see you say you grace two other sites Dave with your self serving rhetoric. How much support have you managed to muster?

I'm not offended at all - I can swear with the best of you. I prefer not to do it online however - kinda shows disrespect to whomever may read what I have said but that's just imo.
But, fill yer boots! Thinking I'm done here for a while. And yeah, I will close the door ...

 

[lorneparker1]

I would not call it abandoned. I think It is part of a commercial/native fishery and the system is likely in a safe place for use come next season. Again if it is abbandoned, and I am cetain it isnt please let me know. It will be well worth my while to go and clean up that pile of crap.!$$$$$ Farms do not have to dismatle their systems between cylces. The flotation has to be stored somewhere. Sites go through a fallowing period where it will not be used for 18 month or so until the bottom recovers. (jump on that one some one). Yes recovers to an acceptable pile of poop.

I do not think that is the case. That site is a gold mine for the company. They will be accountable for it. They need it.

what about this one? is this abandoned?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitedragonpics/sets/72157622705565649/

Heres a good video. Im sure you will say this was all staged in an aquarium or something but ill give it a shot

[video]http://www.standupforwildsalmon.org/Videos.html

 

[Birdsnest]

That is some old crappy fish farm material of some sort. I does not look like salmon farm gear but back in the day there was all kinds of different stuff. Never the less there are those that regardless of the title of the images knowing the nature of the internet will see that and take it with a grain of salt and there will be those like yourself lorne who will assume thats what it is because thats what someone told you. Good thing it has not been sunk or just left to drift away. Salmon farms have locations to store this stuff like this and I have seen piles of crap like this stay in one area for some time. I agree it is not nice to look at. What I do not agree is the idea that this is doing damage of any sort other than being an eye sore. It seems like every salt water operation from salmon farms to oyster farms has a pile of crap like this laying around. Pig farms and cow farms do too. Sound like you have never seen a farm lorne or you have a set image in your mind from tv commercials or something?.

Interesting video. Myself as a salmon farmer looks at a video like this and starts asking many questions about the site. Sites that are poorly located will have these problems. I have seen similar images myself on poorly located sites. One unusual thing that I noticed in this video is that some of the reef footage is in shallow water. I can see the daylight in the shots. My guess would be that it is no deeper than 80 feet. But the mucky shots are in pitch darkness. Anyway to me there are discrepancy's but without knowing where the site is or was, what the densities were and how deep it is or how much current there was I can not tell you anything about that area. To you I understand that you may perceive that that how all fish farms are but to me It is difficult to really know what is going on. And the close ups of the farm fish well farming isn't pretty all the time. There are no predators to take care of any fish that are lets say "special". Do not think your local hatchery is not putting out the odd fish like this because they are and nature does as well. I was interested that it was Scotland because sea lice is different here than it is there. Apparently the lice over there is pretty lethal compared to what we have here. Anyway, on the close ups of those fish i tried to spot some lice on those fish but I could not so I would say it is safe to say by appearance those fish are not covered in lice.
I must point out this though that in my opinion one of the tall tale signs that and individual does not understand the industry or is purposely being misleading is when they mention the "heavy" use of medications and growth hormones. It simply is not true. And in the video they do this immediately. (it is scotland though and I know little about their operations there biological)In fact BC farm salmon receive no growth hormones and are fed antibiotics only when needed which is far less than the more common type of livestock production. It is not uncommon for cycles of fish to never receive a treatment of any sort from smolt to harvest size.

In summary due to Don's recent victory I can say this: Free speech is here to stay and it seems that to me that activist have chosen to be backed fully and completely by this law instead of having a set of their own moral guidelines, practices and principles. I can see why too because they really have to dig deep to get those donations because they have completion amongst themselves i think. I cant say much about the video. It really is not meant for a salmon farmer to see. It is meant for the general public who will often look at it and side with the contents intent. Who wouldn't. Well I am not. I know better.

 

[fogged in]

I cant say much about the video. It really is not meant for a salmon farmer to see. It is meant for the general public who will often look at it and side with the contents intent. Who wouldn't. Well I am not. I know better.

A question for Birdsnest
Are you a salmon fish farmer?

 

[Birdsnest]

I have already stated that fact. I have been for fairly long time. How will you proceed?

 

[lorneparker1]

I have already stated that fact. I have been for fairly long time. How will you proceed?

Birdy...\

you started here

and now you are here.

And finally I am done debating you. I am sorry that you have chose a career path that is so brutal on our enviroment. I wish you personally no Ill will, and on a presonal level have zero problem with you.

However, I will continue to support the people with ultimate goal to put you out of business.

Because its the right thing to do.

Lorne

 

[Birdsnest]

Lorn, I am fine that you see it that way. I get it. Like I stated earlier others will look farther than yourself. Your overall appearance to me is that you show a great lack of awareness of where and how your food comes to you. You can choose to ignore me because of where I work but the fact remains I have far more exposure and a far better understanding than of the industry than most. My exposure has been far more on hands than most. So if it is a matter of where a paycheck comes from that motivates who you allow to spoon feed you your opinion then you can also discredit your "supperhero;s for salmon" because they have to make a living too and they are by doing what they do. With the exception of morton. I do not think money is an issue to her. She has it made$$$. And if you think she is broke like in the role she plays well... your a sucker!!! Lucky for them they get to be hero's and wear condom suits and stuff, cool. Don't forget to Donate.

Stay calm, this is just one persons opinion.

You know the bottom line for me is that from the beginning when morton started her campaign I was working all the time on sites. I started hearing her claims that I knew were not true from my own observations. Things like salmon farms are dead zones, they use hormones, they use soooo much antibiotics. These claims are simply not true and these ideas are still being preached today by various groups. Lets just say I saw the intention of the anti farm from the very beginning and not much has changed in the tactic of making false and misleading claims. I am always surprised at how some here think that is ok. The choice is yours.

 

[fogged in]

I have already stated that fact. I have been for fairly long time. How will you proceed?

To answer your question;
I will continue to fight and encourage all I know to fight disease riddled atlantic fish farms on our coast and boycott the product in restaurants and grocery stores, (as so many others are doing) because I have a strong belief, just as do you.....and you will no doubt continue to try and justify your lively hood.
It's great to be living in a Democracy eh..

 

[Birdsnest]

To answer your question;
I will continue to fight and encourage all I know to fight disease riddled atlantic fish farms on our coast and boycott the product in restaurants and grocery stores, (as so many others are doing) because I have a strong belief, just as do you.....and you will no doubt continue to try and justify your lively hood.
It's great to be living in a Democracy eh..

It is not my responsibility to justify salmon farming in bc as a whole. I have a specific line of work and my work is absolutely necessary and I stick to that. My presence here is really just an opportunity for me to vent about the massive amount of misinformation and misleading information that is put out there by so many. "disease riddled"???? Just another example of a "buzz word" used by those apposed to farms to exaggerate and skew the truth. As usual the truth is not important to some. I get it. I get it. Enjoy your skewed exaggerated facts and doomsday prophecies if thats what blows your hair back.

 

[fogged in]

Birdsnest
You are up on fish farms...please answer the question Dave didn't
How many diseased Atlantic Salmon from fish farms in Washington State and B.C. were "disease riddled" to the point they had to be distroyed this year alone?
And "what blows your (my) hair back." as you put it, is a good company, good health and a good glass of wine.
I rather think that you are probably a pretty good guy (with only one bad bias), have many good friends, hopefully good health for years to come and you may even enjoy good snort once in a while...that's my guess.

 

[Birdsnest]

I wish you personally no Ill will, and on a presonal level have zero problem with you.

Thanks for the kind word and display of reason. At the end of the day I feel the same about you and respect your right to move forward on your beliefs. Otherwise most of what you have posted here I firmly appose.

So what are others participating in this thread doing for an income?

 

[Birdsnest]

thanks for the kind words foggy. I see myself somewhat how you put it except for the bias part. I like to BS with the best of them and I fish and camp and hunt.

To answer your question about the "disease riddling". This year the situation was IHN. Those farms showed no signs of the disease only the presance of the virus. So the FACT is that there was no sign of the disease only the virus. The fish were culled very soon after the discovery of the presence of the virus. the virus was not rampant in was only present. But for atlantics if the virus is present in small quantities the fish are eventually going to exhibit disease and dye. While it may take months and months for this to happen it is a responsible choice to have them culled quickly and thats how it was done this time. This practice did not exist during the last break out around 2004.
Antlantics are highly vulnerable to IHN and other pacific viruses. Pacifics are far more durable I would say. Look at the great lakes. They have introduced springs(kings to charlie hehe) coho, pinks, stealhead to the great lakes system and they survive even in fresh water. That amazes me. All while the atlantic salmon populations generally struggle over there. Antantics are fragile.

IHN is naturally present here And if you have eaten any amount of wild sockeye or herring you have eaten the IHN virus with a plethora of other viruses and bacteria etc etc and its all natural and has nothing to do with salmon farms. This does not say that IHN cant hurt pacific stocks it can, but for the most part pacifics have immunity to it.

 

[fogged in]

thanks for the info Birdsnest.
I was aware of all you said...and where did the IHN virus come from...this time I will answer my own question...according to the fish farms own press release ...it came from wild salmon which are somewhat immune to this virus.
Virus, disease, call it what you want. I forget the number of fish infected, but it was well over 100,000 was it not, between 3 outbreaks....which brings me to the conclusion, wild Pacific Salmon and Atlantic salmon are and were never ment to be in the same location.
ok enough on the subject...I am not about to change your mind or you mine.
lets part friends...it's happy hour 4 pm

 

[Birdsnest]

There is no law saying you can not brush off the details. The difference between virus and disease is very important in this discussion. For example I can have a virus that causes cancer and not get cancer. The cancer is the disease not the virus. I am a chinook farmer but consider this, maybe it is better to have farm a species that reacts like a canary in a coal mine to pacific virus apposed to one that just doesn't react. Its a complex discussion but I am presenting some fairly basic ideas. Regardless weather its chinooks or atlantics being farmed the farmed and wild stocks are being tested regularly and thats what lead the the responsible early removal of those farmed salmon. I do not know how many fish were infected but the amount of salmon that were culled was far greater that 100 000 pieces.


Why would you ask a question that you now say you knew the answer too?

 

[Aces]

Don't forget that they tried to plant Atlantic salmon in our rivers for multiple years and they didn't take

 

[fogged in]

There is no law saying you can not brush off the details.
I do not know how many fish were infected but the amount of salmon that were culled was far greater that 100 000 pieces..............
Why would you ask a question that you now say you knew the answer too?

Cause lawyers never ask a question they don't already know the answere to..good enough for them good enough for me.
I couldn't remember the number of culled salmon but it was huge...thanks for confirming that.
Is this virus the reason fish farms abandoned Chile? or was it another country in that area, or maybe another fact I got wrong?
Birdsnest..in my opinion you are honest, sincere and express yourself in a respectful manner...thank you for that, but I am too weak to fight, must be a virus, or maybe a disease, and happy hour is entering into stage two.
But will continue to fight fish farms til my dying day.

 

[Birdsnest]

Is this virus the reason fish farms abandoned Chile?

Is this really a question or are you lawyering up to me again?

I am not sure I will be farming till my dying day but I am pretty sure there will be salmon farms still and some wild salmon too, maybe more ,maybe less but all the same still around.

30 million socks came back one year so there has to be an answer or a solution. There has to be and I am keen to know what it is.

Birdsnest..in my opinion you are honest, sincere and express yourself in a respectful manner...thank you for that,

Well thats very, VERY, friendly and nice but any more of that is going to feel a bit creepy for me. Maybe its the stage 2.

Enjoy your hours.

 

[Birdsnest]

Don't forget that they tried to plant Atlantic salmon in our rivers for multiple years and they didn't take

Ya, its true. That was a long time ago and not a very smart thing to do. Even though they never took it is pretty unlikely that those fry were screened and proven to be absent of atlantic pathogens like all our farmed Atlantics are now. That is where chile went wrong and ended up with ISA. The real European ISA.

Its to bad Dave isn't posting here. He can really add to the discussion with his thorough back ground in pacific salmon. The guy is a treasure chest of information.

 

[Cuba Libre]

Its to bad Dave isn't posting here. He can really add to the discussion with his thorough back ground in pacific salmon. The guy is a treasure chest of information.

In orded to be use to this board, his "knowledge" would have to be non-biased......thats not him. a shill is a shill is a shill...................