Lures that work one location, not the next

[fishin_magician]

Ok. Gotta ask this one....and I'm well versed in picking lure colors, lure selection, etc etc. I got into a discussion with a few fishin' buds about this.

What's the deal with certain lures/colours which only seem to work in certain locations and not others?

For example, you can put down a Tomic 500 and catch a reasonable amount of fish on the West Coast/Charlottes..however..move it to the inside and it doesn't catch worth a damn. You can take a 156 and fish that plug and hook fish all day in the Canal...move it off Sandheads and nothing doing.

Same thing with the purple haze....got 'em in the box.. fish...sometimes work hot....sometimes not.

Tomic Spoons...ah...now there's a beauty...work elsewhere...fish 'em around Vancouver and Georgia Strait and you may as well resign yourself to catching nothing.

What gives?!

 

[searun]

Not to mention the power of positive thinking...that is, if the angler really, really believes in what he's fishing, success will generally follow. Nothing worse than someone who doesn't believe in what they are dragging.

Searun

 

[fishin_magician]

quote:Originally posted by searun

Not to mention the power of positive thinking...that is, if the angler really, really believes in what he's fishing, success will generally follow. Nothing worse than someone who doesn't believe in what they are dragging.

Searun

Maybe I'm missing something from your response

Hmmmm..if commercial boats didn't disagree with you they may not make enough money to fund the next fishing trip! Size, shape, color are absolutely important in my opinion, however believing in what you're fishing is important..but if you really believe a certain lure is "going" to work, and you fish it and all the fish are caught on other lures..then I think there's something to be said for that. Sure, eventually that lure will catch a fish...but on the other hand...I'd rather keep the rods all producing!

 

[fishin_magician]

quote:Originally posted by UNKNOWN

...there is a good thread about colors located here;
http://www.sportangler.ca/network/index.php?topic=167.0

This only helps with part of your query - size of a lure and various color shades and patterns will change from area to area. I tend to disagree that a certain lure or color will only work in one place, it may be better in one place than the other, however it may also be so if size of the lure is the determining factor as some times the fish get size finicky. This said, I have been very successful catching salmon on monster gear in Georgia Strait around Ladysmith, Gabriola, Nanaimo, Parksville, Qualicum areas. When many top rods and other anglers are fishing 3.5,4.0 Coyotes I'll be using 5.0 and 6.0...or when anglers are using certain sized octopus vinyl, I'll be using larger turd style squid bait bodies. One of my favorite spoons for Gabriola/Nanaimo is about the size of a small 50/50 brass & coppoer dodger. Many of the westcoast sizes and patterns do work on the ECVI. Tomic plugs for instance, I use 6" and 7" mainly for chinook, however I will shrink down for other species...I did find that although many WCVI colors & sizes work on ECVI - I found that darker tones worked better predominately on ECVI over the lighter more pale tones accept where glow was incorporated into the pattern. One thing that changes everything is the use of optical brighteners either on lures or bait, dodgers or flashers. These dyes increased opportunities substantially. An old trade secret introduced by the Japanese and very prevalent in Yama$hita [golden bait brand] and Yo-Zuri [North Pacific Brand] vinyl skirts...not a new discovery by any means - but companies like Radiant Lures was one of the first promoters in Canada outside of the OEM. Everyone else laughed early in the game and then warmed up and followed...

I still feel that it all boils down to confidence and understanding what your gear is doing in certain circumstance. There are also different techniques for each gear type and size that can help develop success with bigger tackle.

- UNKNOWN -

EDIT to fix "Yama$hita" as it would not allow me you use a regular "s" in Yama****a for some reason??

Interesting article. I've tried some of your techniques...definitely something to them.

However, I've also tried fishing the 5.0 Coyotes off vs. the 4.0 Coyotes. The 4.0 outperformed. The 6.0 sat there and bonked the nicest quality...although it definitely had it's share of extended fishing time.

Having too much tackle, (yes there IS such a thing) I've tried to fish some of these things off against eachother...

Matching the hatch is important too.....

When fish are scarce, you don't want to be "guessing" what "should" work, and thus you stick to your guns.

Was talking with a commercial troller this past weekend and he said it was pretty simple...if one type of gear on one gurdy is hooking fish, swap it on up and get it happening on all gear...depth isn't everything...got to get the right color...even down to the color of the dots on the wobblers.

Definitely perplexing.

 

[Steelhead S2]

In my experience, patience and luck have a lot to do with it too.

 

[alley cat]

Yup have one of those in my tackle box , used a red and white Apex around Kirby and Sanford to great success for many years ,tried it when I fished the Renfrew area with only one fish ever hit on it there !
Fished same flasher set up and same leader length , chenged leader length and flashers but nothing ?
Also a mainly amber coloured spoon worked very well around the Assits light area but nothing elsewhere especially Sooke area .

AL

 

[fishin_magician]

quote:Originally posted by UNKNOWN

I agree, using the same lure over and over and over again while your buddy is pounding the crap out of them is for certain counter productive in any situation other than when you are tackle testing. The interesting part of your comment about commercial fishing is that they are sometimes running hundreds of lures at one time...they always run producers, but there is a mix of varying size and colors and sometimes different profiles in case their chosen producers are not producing and the reason why they have hundred of tails rigged and ready. Where I disagreed was in a lure working in one area and not another. The only lure that I have never caught a fish on was the Chinese produced Charlie White lure...very few people ever did, unless you are from the North Coast - specifically Prince Rupert area. The anglers up there can't find enough of them...kinda like the Krippled "K" down here. LOL

I didn't think your query was about fishing top producers over marginal gear - I thought it was about why it worked here, but not there...where I offer my experience with using WCVI on ECVI.

Sorry if I misunderstood...

- UNKNOWN -

Yes, you did understand.

It's just interesting...I was thinking about the fishing situations in each case where I was fishing those lures..the water temps were different..there was less light but it "shoulda" worked.

I remember one day a couple of years ago when the white hoochie was THE lure that day. Put down a glow, no dice. Put down a Purple Haze..the pale white one... Same tail lengths...NOTHING..white hoochie kept on scoring. Eventually..it was white hoochies on all rods. All rods producing. Took the white hoochies off one side...tried other similar colours...had to be the straight up white one.

Then there was the drizzly day...cold clear water, and it was Army Truck w/glow belly or bust...put down the dark speckled frog with the glow belly...Army Truck X 3 fish consecutively. Another color according the the article above should have been better..no dice.

We've all had the situations, rule number 1 is..if you're going to catch fish..there better be fish. Maybe that's part of the problem, I'm not always fishing where there are fish..LOL. [}] Although I'm pretty optimistic there are fish.that's why I do!

 

[searun]

Well, Fishing Magician my point was the guy running the rods must believe in what he is dragging. I could drag the hot lure all day long, but if I don't believe in it there will be no doubt that I wont fish it effectively as I would if I truly believed.

That said, there is definitely hot lures for certain areas, I never suggested otherwise. Biggest single factor however is matching the hatch. Case in point, a few years back at Nootka we started the early part of the trip killing them on smaller 5 inch bait. Slowly over a 2 day period you could see the size of the bait in the stomach of fish was increasing. In the morning of the third day of the switch around in bait our regular 5 inch bait wasn't working. We went in to Critter Cove for lunch and picked up some larger bait to match the hatch and within 60 seconds using larger bait we slammed them. So matching the hatch is often "the" answer.

Searun

 

[fishin_magician]

quote:Originally posted by searun

Well, Fishing Magician my point was the guy running the rods must believe in what he is dragging. I could drag the hot lure all day long, but if I don't believe in it there will be no doubt that I wont fish it effectively as I would if I truly believed.

That said, there is definitely hot lures for certain areas, I never suggested otherwise. Biggest single factor however is matching the hatch. Case in point, a few years back at Nootka we started the early part of the trip killing them on smaller 5 inch bait. Slowly over a 2 day period you could see the size of the bait in the stomach of fish was increasing. In the morning of the third day of the switch around in bait our regular 5 inch bait wasn't working. We went in to Critter Cove for lunch and picked up some larger bait to match the hatch and within 60 seconds using larger bait we slammed them. So matching the hatch is often "the" answer.

Searun

Gotcha..thanks!

 

[wolf]

You will laugh at this A few years back if you have ever heard of white beach in blackfish sound there was some very large herring in there the 10 to 12 inch kind and we couldnt get a spring to bite on anything and we were marking fish in there, so i looked in the guide shack for the largest spoon i could possablly find and the only ones there were these 8 inch ones with glow on the side not good for the depth you fish there 25 to 40 ft so there i am scraping off all the glow paint on them just leaving about a 1/4 of an inch of green on the top of it so basically I created a very shinny spoon which is what I was going for first pass bang spring in got 4 springs that night and every time the fellow guides would ask what i got it on I told them the "NEW" super lure!!!!!!!!!

So back at camp there all quizing me as Im vaccumm sealing the fish as I was the only guide that got fish that night So I tell them its on the back seat go take a look!!! All I hear from around the corner is "YOU GOT TO BE FU@# KIDDING ME!!!!!!!! AS now it is really turning into a laugh session and we are all joking around.

Next morning we are back in there and you know it first pass bang got one on and the one guide yells out let me guess "super lure" yep i say now im watching him scrape off the paint LOL I think i may have been on to something as I experimented but it only lasted about 4 days then that feed was gone but like searun said match the hatch LOL LOL is for saltwater as well sometimes you have to think outside the box!!!!!


Wolf

 

[IronNoggin]

While I do believe there is something to the confidence matter, I also tend to strongly believe in SeaRun's suggestion regarding matching the hatch. On the troller, we carry literally hundreds of spoons of varying sizes, shapes and colors, and we also carry enough hootchies to make any chandler envious!

Each day can and often is different than the one previous. We start with a working understanding of what should perform under the conditions encountered - water color, depth of targets, weather conditions, water temperature and more. Contrary to what many believe, we only run ~ 6 lures per line, for a total of 36 pieces of gear in the water when fishing springs. The "Heavies" (first lines the fish will encounter) are always loaded with what we believe the "best" performers will be based on past experience and conditions encountered. Often the short pig will run a mix of that, and a few 'speculation" offerings, and the long pigs are quite often nearly completely experimental.

Most often the tried and true products will perform as expected, but not always so. Indeed almost as often, something new we are experimenting with will rule the day. When that happens, of course we get more of that item out there, it is the nature of the business to catch as many as possible after all. But we have also discovered that what works well one day, or in one area, will not produce the next, or should we shift locations.

Amongst the first thing we do upon landing a few fish is process them, with considerable attention being given to the stomach contents of the catch. This gives us a focal point to center our prersentations around. The bait ranges from krill, to pilchards, herring and more, and we have varying immitations of each to consider for use. Matching the size I believe to be amongst the most important, although color certainly does play a role. When you get the magical combination right, the results can be downright explosive. As in upwards of 250 fish taken on 36 lures in a day! When we get it wrong, or if the fish simply ain't there, the results can leave you dissapointed and headed back to the drawing board!

I don't perceive much difference between sportfishing and commercial trolling, except the number of pieces of gear in the water. Matching The Hatch has always been the best producer for me in both fisheries.

Cheers,
Nog

 

[Rayvon]

One trip up to Nootka years ago we and many other boats were struggling to catch any springs using our tried and true setups when I noticed one boat off Camel Rock was hitting fish steady.It was a big Searay that seemed more set up for partying than fishing.Eventually I got close enough to see he was dragging what looked like a light coloured hootchie.Down went a glow below with immediate results.I think we had 4 double headers that morning and a hole lot of fun.So I think its important to match the hatch and match what the hot rod of the day is running.

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by IronNoggin

X2

 

[JuandeOne]

The whole match the hatch thing seems very logical in areas where feeder/migratory fish are still actively feeding. It is vitually irrefutable as far as predator - prey and evolutionary principles are concerned.

The part of the equation I find interesting is the more terminal fisheries along the coast where, for all intense and purposes, the fish have stopped actively feeding long ago. The various inlets and sounds along the coast etc.

What makes one type of action or colour lure productive in one of these areas but not the next?

 

[fishin_magician]

One thing for sure, the closer the fish get to the mouths of the rivers you do have to change tactics ...color selection changes et al. when you're selecting your lures. I remember one day last August fishing off the mouth of the Fraser...anchovies behind flashers are a total staple...and many days you can't get a hoochie to catch a fish if you needed to save your life...some times though...a good hoochie will do ok. Since fish are "conditioned" and follow learned behaviour...then a spiralling hoochie should be working as well as a good slow rolling Anchovy..yet no dice.

As for feeders... I've had fish "switch" off one coloured spoon and switch onto the other colour...kinda strange to observe..both spoons were very much alike eachother..size was the same, action was the same, depths were negligible...10feet seperation. No real explanation...after 4 consecutive fish on the one spoon..then the other spoon was on....chance? Maybe, however if you can observe something..then it must be explainable?

Match the hatch?! Yes. Colour choice, more ambiguous to find out why sometimes.

Makes for interesting analysis sometimes that's for sure.

 

[searun]

Hey, I had a trip this year on Big Bank where the fish changed every hour or so. We had to cycle through a number of change ups until we found what was hot, but the strange thing was the fish changed off the hot lure after about an hour. Lots of fish coming fast and furious then it was like the switch was shut off. So, while experience suggests matching the size, colour, depth and action are most critical factors to success the fish are fickle at times....and no amount of logic seems to be able to explain why, which is about the time I start quoting Todd Bertuzzi..."it is what it is".

 

[Time]

Mine all worked in the store, on the water not so much.

 

[profisher]

Go with what you know, but watch what is going on around you. If your running reds, purples for flashers and fish are being caught consistently on greens...change one or two up. Its funny how we could catch fish as consistently as today when we only had clear or chartreuse teaser heads to pick from. Now we are switching between chrome's, glows, and the oldies just to stay on the bites. lol I know one good Sooke guide who never changes his gear period. Always the exact same setup on all rods. The only thing he changes is location and depth.