Live Herring Mootching

[westercoaster222]

Good evening all, I hope the season is treating you well.

We were fortunate enough to have a productive time out on the west coast to fill the freezer, so I am switching from tried and true methods for my local fishing to 'old fashioned style' methods for lack of a better word. Live herring mootching and bucktailing. Bucktailing seems straitforward enough, but very conditions driven.

For the mooching though, I am interested to hear if anyone has experience with this style of fishing. My efforts will be focused primarily on Wilby Shoals and Cape Mudge Lighthouse.

I am wondering about keeping herring alive on a small boat ie no room for cooler live well. Thinking bucket replenished with new water.

As well as terminal tackle. We have been out with a mentour on this style of fishing once before (no fish unfortunately), but this is his set up.
Mainline down to bead, 4-6oz slider, rubber hoochie head pinned with crib peg, bead chain, then #6 or #8 circle hook with #8 trebble snelled. Cirlce hook goes through the nostril, and the trebble trails free. I could only find #1 singles, and #6 trebbles. How does that sounds for a set up?

Currious to hear your experiences with this style of fishing, tides to focus on etc. Finding bait to jig and fish on is one thing, but I feel timing is more important.

 

[Sharphooks]

Ditch the treble… silly piece of kit for salt chuck salmon…. Everything else sounds good… a Sabiki rig can fill a bucket with herring… high or low slack is when you ‘ll be wanting to swim those things ….brace yourself and fasten seat belts … fun way to get them

 

[westercoaster222]

Ditch the treble… silly piece of kit for salt chuck salmon…. Everything else sounds good… a Sabiki rig can fill a bucket with herring… high or low slack is when you ‘ll be wanting to swim those things ….brace yourself and fasten seat belts … fun way to get them

A number 1 or smaller seems like an small hook for this to me, think if the trailer is a single it should be bigger?

 

[terrin]

A number 1 or smaller seems like a small hook for this to me, think if the trailer is a single it should be bigger?

We used tandem treble # 10’s back in the day. 1 or 2 ounce weight.

 

[Hoops]

Buy those 19 gallon gardening buckets with the rope handles from Canadian Tire. Replenish with a bucket, or better yet a raw-water wash down with the gun fanning water and air in gently. Make sure your bilge pumps work, as overflowing the bucket is the consequence.

As for how your experience of the day will go;
Well… you’ll spend more time likely finding herring than catching predatory fish.

The best way I’ve found to plan my day is:
1) having the Sabiki rods ready to go

2) troll around a bunch of store bought or previously caught wholly rollers or cut plugs, or gear until you come across a big enough bait ball. Suspended is best. Sometimes they’re rockfish, especially when they’re glued to the bottom. When you’re over it, mark it on the chart plotter!! That is so important.

Play the the chinooks you’ll likely catch on that bait ball, and immediately zigzag around your temporary mark on the main at 4-5kns. Those little sliver darlings move quick, they need to eat a lot — 10% of their body weight a day in the summer. Find them, update your mark, and drop, then when you’re off them, do the same process updating your mark everytime. 30-40 herring is enough, they need about 1 gallon of water each to stay healthy, so I carry two of those large black gardening buckets.

With a specialized Sabiki rod, here’s a great tip:
add a small herring dodger to the end of the first Sabiki, then add a second Sabiki rig beneath (on the outside of the rod) to your 6oz mooching weight.

When you get herring bites, reel the first string up grabbing the dodger, unloading as you go, then reel the Sabiki inside and deal with the second string of herring, grabbing the weight. Having more flies in the water really helps with catching them.

Also, carry a small dehooker. It could be as simple as a wire coat hanger made to be a gaff. Stay away from touching the hooks by hand — they’re so sharp.

3) as for how I gear up, I don’t change from my tandem 5/0 octopus hooks. All I do is attach a small rubber band to my lead hook to secure over the bridle hook so that they don’t fall off the barbless setup. Those girls hair tie elastics from the dollar store work great. Secure your second hook lightly behind the herring’s dorsal fin.

————
Update:
As for the circle hook idea, I’m not 100% sold on their use with salmon. Chinook have very teethy mouths with layers of inners, and in my experience the circle hooks are hit and miss; sometimes they’re in the corner of the mouth, sometimes they’re deep down in the soft stomach making that one a keeper, and oftentimes they just plain miss.

If biologically they had smoother plate-like mouths closer to tuna, kingfish, or billfish then I’d be all for it.

Hook setting tandem octopus hooks has been counterintuitively my most ethical method. Plus it’s so fun to hookset.
————

Original continuation:

I fish them both on the surface drifting at lunch on calm days, or alternatively what I do is run them off the downrigger. What helps but is kind of viscious the first time is running a live wholly roller. Herring camouflage very well, so they won’t be found for a while, having a rotating flash from a still kicking wholly roller will help your livey be eaten too.



Have fun with it, choose your calm weather days, and good luck out there.

 

[Old Blue]

Get any bucket and use a battery operated aquarium pump. I used to use them as a kid to keep a few dozen minnows alive back east....free batteries with the Radio Shack card too hahaha.

Something like this but replenish the water every hour or two:

Pawfly Aquarium Battery Air Pump 40 GPH Oxygen Pump for 5 to 30 Gallon Fish Tank Portable Aerator Pump for Outdoor Fishing and Fish Transportation, Battery Not Included (Accessories Inside The Pump) : Amazon.ca: Pet Supplies

Pawfly Aquarium Battery Air Pump 40 GPH Oxygen Pump for 5 to 30 Gallon Fish Tank Portable Aerator Pump for Outdoor Fishing and Fish Transportation, Battery Not Included (Accessories Inside The Pump) : Amazon.ca: Pet Supplies

www.amazon.ca

 

[sly_karma]

5 gallon bucket, drop in a little aerator from the big box boys. Takes 2 D batteries, enough for a couple of sessions. I made a cutout in the lid of the pail for my setup, can fill it higher but minimize sloshing.

Bass Pro Shops® Aerator | Cabela's Canada https://share.google/YqnBvnE6cBDSqdfSR

 

[westercoaster222]

Buy those 19 gallon gardening buckets with the rope handles from Canadian Tire. Replenish with a bucket, or better yet a raw-water wash down with the gun fanning water and air in gently. Make sure your bilge pumps work, as overflowing the bucket is the consequence.

As for how your experience of the day will go;
Well… you’ll spend more time likely finding herring than catching predatory fish.

The best way I’ve found to plan my day is:
1) having the Sabiki rods ready to go

2) troll around a bunch of store bought or previously caught wholly rollers or cut plugs, or gear until you come across a big enough bait ball. Suspended is best. Sometimes they’re rockfish, especially when they’re glued to the bottom. When you’re over it, mark it on the chart plotter!! That is so important.

Play the the chinooks you’ll likely catch on that bait ball, and immediately drive around your temporary mark on the main at 4-5kns. Those little sliver darlings move quick, they need to eat a lot — 10% of their body weight a day in the summer. Find them, update your mark, and drop, then when you’re off them, do the same process updating your mark everytime. 30-40 herring is enough, they need about 1 gallon of water each to stay healthy, so I carry two of those large black gardening buckets.

With a specialized Sabiki rod, here’s a great tip:
add a small herring dodger to the end of the first Sabiki, then add a second Sabiki rig beneath (on the outside of the rod) to your 6oz mooching weight.

When you get herring bites, reel the first string up grabbing the dodger, unloading as you go, then reel the Sabiki inside and deal with the second string of herring, grabbing the weight. Having more flies in the water really helps with catching them.

Also, carry a small dehooker. It could be as simple as a wire coat hanger made to be a gaff. Stay away from touching the hooks by hand — they’re so sharp.

3) as for how I gear up, I don’t change from my tandem 5/0 octopus hooks. All I do is attach a small rubber band to my lead hook to secure over the bridle hook so that they don’t fall off the barbless setup. Those girls hair tie elastics from the dollar store work great. Secure your second hook lightly behind the herring’s dorsal fin.

I fish them both on the surface drifting at lunch on calm days, or alternatively what I do is run them off the downrigger. What helps but is kind of viscious the first time is running a live wholly roller. Herring camouflage very well, so they won’t be found for a while, having a rotating flash from a still kicking wholly roller will help your livey be eaten too.



Have fun with it, choose your calm weather days, and good luck out there.

Thank you for all this information that is great! Good idea about the dehooker and the hair elastics!
Just want to ask, when you say wholly rollers, thats the rigging style with the tooth pick in the vent with the tail bent? Any chance you have a picture of how you rig the hooks for that?
And for rigging the liveys, one hook through the nostril with an elastic stopper, then the other just through the skin behind the dorsal? I do have some rigged up with three hooks, so could have a trailer.

I ended up visiting my friend who has built a cooler live well, and am in the process of doing the same. Got a rather interesting history lesson of fishing in the area with the Painters boats buying herring from Q.Cove, and using minno buckets that float. Then one of the guides came up with the cooler idea and everyone had one!

 

[westercoaster222]

5 gallon bucket, drop in a little aerator from the big box boys. Takes 2 D batteries, enough for a couple of sessions. I made a cutout in the lid of the pail for my setup, can fill it higher but minimize sloshing.

Bass Pro Shops® Aerator | Cabela's Canada https://share.google/YqnBvnE6cBDSqdfSR

Yeah I might change next year from the cooler style to something like you and Old Blue suggested. Small 13' Whaler, so space is a premium.

 

[eroyd]

What is the preferred hook, for livies now we are barbless? I was thinking one of bending a bronze hook into something like a circle hook for the front hook, so the bait stays on.

 

[Tsquared]

What is the preferred hook, for livies now we are barbless? I was thinking one of bending a bronze hook into something like a circle hook for the front hook, so the bait stays on.

These earring stoppers work well to keep live bait on. Put your bait on then work the stopper up the hook to the bait. Buy them at any dollar store.

Bmisegm Soft Rubber Earring Back Stoppers 100pcs Clear Hook Earnuts for Secure Ear Jewelry 100PCS Earrings Clear - Walmart.ca

Buy Bmisegm Soft Rubber Earring Back Stoppers 100pcs Clear Hook Earnuts for Secure Ear Jewelry 100PCS Earrings Clear from Walmart Canada. Shop for more Women's Earrings available online at Walmart.ca

www.walmart.ca

 

[islandboy]

I've used these with success:

General PDP Template

www.canadiantire.ca

 

[Hoops]

Thank you for all this information that is great! Good idea about the dehooker and the hair elastics!
Just want to ask, when you say wholly rollers, thats the rigging style with the tooth pick in the vent with the tail bent? Any chance you have a picture of how you rig the hooks for that?
And for rigging the liveys, one hook through the nostril with an elastic stopper, then the other just through the skin behind the dorsal? I do have some rigged up with three hooks, so could have a trailer.

I ended up visiting my friend who has built a cooler live well, and am in the process of doing the same. Got a rather interesting history lesson of fishing in the area with the Painters boats buying herring from Q.Cove, and using minno buckets that float. Then one of the guides came up with the cooler idea and everyone had one!

There are a few ways to do wholly rollers. Maybe start with something like this:

What I would suggest is staying away from the toothpicks and skewers. If a fish escapes or is released, does that fish now have a toothpick in its stomach?

You can either bend the tail up while it’s in the process of brining firm, or alternatively you could try adding a skewer while it’s brining and then remove when you’re about to bait up your hooks.



As for three hooks, it’s probably unnecessary, and to be frank I’m not even sure if it’s legal. I’m pretty sure tandem is the max for salmon.

As for how you repeated back the instructions for rigging the livies, you got it; one bridle secured with a hair elastic, and the second lightly through the flesh behind the dorsal in the alternative direction to your bridle hook.

 

[westercoaster222]

What is the preferred hook, for livies now we are barbless? I was thinking one of bending a bronze hook into something like a circle hook for the front hook, so the bait stays on.

that is what I was shown by the old-timer who took us out, a small bronze wire trout hook.

 

[westercoaster222]

There are a few ways to do wholly rollers. Maybe start with something like this:

What I would suggest is staying away from the toothpicks and skewers. If a fish escapes or is released, does that fish now have a toothpick in its stomach?

You can either bend the tail up while it’s in the process of brining firm, or alternatively you could try adding a skewer while it’s brining and then remove when you’re about to bait up your hooks.

View attachment 119093

As for three hooks, it’s probably unnecessary, and to be frank I’m not even sure if it’s legal. I’m pretty sure tandem is the max for salmon.

As for how you repeated back the instructions for rigging the livies, you got it; one bridle secured with a hair elastic, and the second lightly through the flesh behind the dorsal in the alternative direction to your bridle hook.

fantastic! thank you