Line between safe and stupid

[the runt]

Good thread,when i was 18 i got my 1st boat, an 18 ft.Olympic.A case of beer and it didn't matter what the weather conditions were.I usually got sick.Now i'm 47 Very seldom will even drink anything but water on a boat.Never take any chances anymore,fish only realitvly nice water.Even catching fish to me isn't much fun in sloppy water,if i can't stand up to reel it's slop.Now i rely on the younger boys for the fishig reports.

 

[Tailspin]

At least we can all trust that the Environment Canada weather Pedictions are going to be Accurate. There are never any unpredicted and sudden Blows![:0]

I think FM is bang on. If your under 22 feet you are tempting fate to go out to LaPerouse without a buddy boat of equal or greater size. Swiftsure is now commen place for even a 14 foot alluminums from nitnat on your good day. We have all done crazy **** and if you have made the run out to big bank in the fog you have likely had that feeling in your gut looking at the GPS and realizing how far out and vulnerable you really are. All it takes is one old growth Hemlock deadhead to set you into crisp 46 degree water. CG is a long ways off for that bath.

I have a friend who owns a 54'commercial Longline Boat who looks on in disgust when i tell him where i am fishing. He fishes mostly off Esperanza and Hardy. They have dragged all sorts of sporties in from out of the water that were suprised by weather/fog and or mechanical failure. He says they are like magnets, A lone boat will glue to his side for comfort zone, thinking "if anything goes wrong this guy will help me out" A few years ago he was running out of Hardy and came across 3 guys in a 17- 19 footer with a major problem, they was outta petrol so to speak. They had water in there fuel, dead batteries and were on a one way to Japan. He postponed his trip and towed them 40 NM home @ 5 knots/hr. I understand his perception and i understand that urge we all get to go that extra mile when it flatter than Pi** on a pie plate.

 

[SeaWolf]

I've been following this thread with some interest and there are a lot of good points made. The truth of the matter is that for most of us a 18-22 footer is reality. Not too many of us can afford to run a 32 foot Grady with twin 250's. So the question remains how far can you go with that 18-22 foot boat? The line between safe and stupid is very subjective. My boat is a Campion 542 Explorer, new design with the self bailing hull and lots of freeboard. I am still trying to find my comfort level with it.

Weather is the number dictator of what I will try. The Weather Channel is no where to start planning a offshore trip. The Marine Forecast from Enviroment Canada is the best information available, combined with my own knowledge of weather. In order to understand the forecast fully, you have to read or listen to the synopsis, then the forecast for that particular area, plus the adjoining areas. Weather does not stop at some arbitrary line on the map. On top of that you have to understand that for the most part wind is thermally driven. The windiest part of the day coincides usually with the hottest. So even if the early am is flat calm, the forecast 5-15 knots is yet to develop and will most certainly as the day heats up. Throw in fog and you now have 2 variables to deal with. Forecasts are often upgraded (aftercast) but never downgraded. So something that fails to develop, still has to make you wary the next time. Ideally I'm looking for a stable ridge of high pressure that has settled in and not breaking down in a hurry. Light winds builing to no more than 5-15 with seas at 1-2 or less than a metre and I feel comfortable. Chances are if I leave it too long in the day then whatever inlet I have to run will be even snottier.

My boat has all the required safety equipment, charting GPS (handheld backup) compass and VHF with DSC. The fuel is filtered through a Racor, and the Kicker is in good running condition.

With reference to the previous post, bad fuel can occur as easily in a 26 footer as a 18 footer. Breakdowns can occur in any boat, and condition is more a factor than size. Dual motors would be nice, but it is not always a reality for us.

As to my comfort level, right now 5-7 miles off the coast would be about it. I did run Port Hardy to River's last summer with a buddy boat and under the right conditions, I would do it again. For the most part, us sporties are talking summer weather here and not the Gales of winter.

Just my thoughts

 

[knucklebuster]

quote:Originally posted by the runt

Good thread,when i was 18 i got my 1st boat, an 18 ft.Olympic.A case of beer and it didn't matter what the weather conditions were.I usually got sick.Now i'm 47 Very seldom will even drink anything but water on a boat.Never take any chances anymore,fish only realitvly nice water.Even catching fish to me isn't much fun in sloppy water,if i can't stand up to reel it's slop.Now i rely on the younger boys for the fishig reports.

Similar story here. grew up in gulf islands fishing from a 12' springbok. Active pass and ferrys. no problem. No place i wouldn't go. Caught a lot of fish though. Don't think I ever got scared on the water either. I'm also 47 and have a lot more respect for the water now. Even in a 28' boat with twin engines and all the up to date electronics. Respect for the ocean could save your life.I know a few people who were taken by the sea. I sometimes wonder what was going through there minds as it was all happening. Did they just 'screw up'? Poor judgement? Was there something they wished they had done different? Or maybe listened to someone elses advise? At that point its all too late.

 

[fishin_magician]

quote:Originally posted by Yote

Mr Magician. There are no guarantees no matter what you are in out there. There can always be a worst case scenario like what you pointed out. I prepare for the trip and have all the safety equipment that I need to make it a safe trip IN MY OPINION.

Now that's not saying that something can't happen out there because sometimes **** happens. It's like bow hunting in grizzly country. Yes it can be dangerous but I appreciate the other positive aspects that I get from doing that. I don't plan on putting my bow down anytime soon. I also don't plan on not going to the banks with my boat anytime soon either.

True enough. I agree with you. There is always worse case scenarios. However, I'd have to say...with out a doubt in my mind that if you're placing your life in the hands of a weather report by Environment Canada...usually they're right...however, thats not the only thing that'll go wrong when your life starts to get in danger.

For those of us on this thread that have engaged in a search and rescue and fished in the areas where the accident or fatality happened or fished bodies out of the chuck..it's usually many things that went wrong all the time. Either way, I'll take a 30 foot Grady with 500 horses off the back ANYTIME over any 22 footer with single power.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what blasted boat you're in, it's YOU that is the ONLY AND ONLY DECIDING factor about putting your life in danger..and I think most people just don't realize that. If you have that factor down pat, you'll live and survive. Make too many mistakes..and you're on your way to death not matter what safety equipment, what boat, what weather, who you are, or ANYTHING else for that matter.

As for you fellas out there that are the naysayers...that's alright..you go right ahead...I'll head back to shore..and not going to fish you out of the drink when its way beyond reasonable.

boat safe.

 

[tubber]

Thanks FM, most of what you say is sound practise for anyone, regardless of boat. My little Whaler will be staying closer to shore from now on. That said, I can fish calmer waters near Malcalm, Secretary, anywhere in Johnstone Straight or Nootka and still run considerable risk in the event of a breakdown. Tide rips, fog, big wakes from cruise ships, and dangerous operators can cause problems for any boat on the inside just like out on the banks. Most of the places I fish I see lots of other boats. I hope I can count on them and they me if someone needs assistance.
I hope to move up to a 17" Whaler soon. This thread re-enforces the notion that no boat will be enough if we make bad decisions.

 

[fishin_magician]

quote:Originally posted by tubber

Thanks FM, most of what you say is sound practise for anyone, regardless of boat. My little Whaler will be staying closer to shore from now on. That said, I can fish calmer waters near Malcalm, Secretary, anywhere in Johnstone Straight or Nootka and still run considerable risk in the event of a breakdown. Tide rips, fog, big wakes from cruise ships, and dangerous operators can cause problems for any boat on the inside just like out on the banks. Most of the places I fish I see lots of other boats. I hope I can count on them and they me if someone needs assistance.
I hope to move up to a 17" Whaler soon. This thread re-enforces the notion that no boat will be enough if we make bad decisions.

Amen to that and well stated.

Really..you gotta ask yourself...a FISH or your life? Doesn't sound like a good barter or trade to me!

Wishing everyone a safe and rewarding boating season and wishing that everyone comes back off the ocean alive!

Tight Lines, Safe Boating to all.

 

[battaglino]

All this negative talk makes me wonder why the hell I run from Neah Bay to Swiftsure. My boat is pretty seaworthy a 25-foot Carver and self-bailing but it is 25 miles+ back to port and we had some fun rides over the years. FM you are right about the safety equipment we all where those orange suits but you never know what can happen. I had my alternator fail on me two years ago and it just started smoking I had to cut the belt and we limped back across in a tropical rainstorm. We had to run the radar because we couldn’t see more that 1/8 of a mile. I carry a spare alternator now. Each near mishap you seem to learn from and just pray that it doesn’t kill you.

Last year we even where surrounded by whales in the middle of the straits with 10 foot swell and had to stop for 10 minutes while they swam around us checking us out. One even swam under the boat and turned his head and looked at us. (Probably checking out my buddy who was feeding the fish) I agree completely with the buddy boat it can save your butt.

Thanks for all the information FM. I still have dreams at the beginning of each fishing season that I break down on at Swiftsure and have to limp into Renfro and try to explain to the RCMP. I have been doing it for 10 year and haven’t had to do it yet. I wonder what the RCMP would do to you for breaking down and not clearing customs.

 

[nedarb2]

Just to throw a little spice into the discussion On the east coast, they consider 45+ miles off shore, under 45miles and almost anyboat is fair game....crazy hey

 

[SeaWolf]

Hey Battaglino:

It's fairly routine for aircraft enroute Alaska to Washington to have to stop because of weather, fuel, or mechanical problems. The common procedure is to call Canpass at a Customs airport (designated point of clearance) or call the local RCMP otherwise. Advise Coast Guard if your able prior. No big deal at all. Chances are they won't even rubber glove you (just kidding). Crap happens and they are very understanding.

 

[Yote]

For the guys that own boats in the 18-22 foot class and are considering swiftsure, all I can say is use your head if you are planning on heading out. I check as many weather predictions I can from bigwavedave.ca and if it looks like it might be too snotty to get out to the bank when you go to try, then don't go. Of course bigger is better, that's pretty obvious. I bought the boat I did with the intention of being able to fish Swiftsure and I have been very happy with it so far. I've turned around once because the weather got too bad and have had no "close calls" so far. My boat is running off a newer main motor and brand new kicker and I am very good about maintenance. there's no guarantees nothing will happen but I just try and mitigate the risk. I KNOW that I am not the only one that feels this way because I am not the smallest boat out at the bank by no means.

 

[battaglino]

Thanks Seawolf. I think I would just have have my wife come bail me out (she's canadian). We use to run to Bamfield and check in there at customs but that closed down a few years ago and I think the closest check in is Ucluelet. I hate rubber gloves. Joe

 

[5-Salt Fever]

Assume that fuel is non-issue and redundant battery operated GPS and VHF were on-board and we are talking about regular journeys outside - not the once/twice per year perfect days excursion:

I would say 0-25 mile offshore 20ft or better is sufficient on 1-1.5 meter seas at 6-9sec's apart with a stable or improving forecast. Forecast with declining conditions later in the day, then stay in close. Many smaller boats will really struggle to get out of the wx when conditions deteriorate later in the day....a 1hr run in can turn into a 4hr slog and potential fuel shortage issues.

Outside of 20-miles, 24ft or better with positive floatation, self bailing cockpit/fishing area, and 3,000gal/per hour de-watering capability. Twin power is prefered but Single with good kicker that can be hand-started will be ok. EPIRB w/GPS, Ditch Bag, Near Shore life raft also are mandatory equipment in my book if you plan to be out there more than a couple of perfect days per year

The deal is, how well can your hull withstand a wave breaking over the backend. When you look accident reports where sinking or swaping are the cause, the majority of the time the electric system fails on on wave breaking into cockpit and then wave 2-3 overcome the boat. Wave breaking over the backend appears to be the most common problem offshore. No electical system - engines quit, bilge pumps stop, and you have no VHF/GPS. Positve floatation and self bailing means you can stay with hull while help arrives and you have a chance at getting the water out and everything operational again. - EPRIB with GPS means help arrives quickly. Ditch bag is for the raft in the event your hull does not have positive floatation or you need to get out of the elements/water.

May seem excessive but where I am from we spend quite a bit of time chasing tuna at 40-70miles out. The above safety equipment and boat capabilities give one the confidence to venture out on those less than perfect days and the peace of mind knowing that your survival is very very likely should an emergency develop.

Final note: Purchase a really good First Aid Kit - The Offshore kind, not the cheap ones you stubble over at the marine or outdoor stores. You will most likely use it many more times over your life time than your life raft or positive floatation hull. It will save yours or anothers life someday.

 

[baddogg]

Fever

Very well written.

I hope that your info is well absorbed by those that need it.

Baddogg