Hydro usage
- Thread starter Deewar25
- Start date
Dave S
Active Member
The smart meter is not ripping you off. The smart meters currently bill based off total usage, not time of day usage. BC Hyrdo has not yet established peak demand billing which will change what we pay per kw based on the time of day power was consumed. (if possible, do your laundry, dishes, home heating, showers, baths in "off hours")
Splitting up the hydro bill based on square footage and total occupants is the best way to handle your situation. Without knowing sq/ft of each space, it's hard to know whether 70-30 is a fair split. If it's not written in the tenancy agreement, you may run into problems at some point.
Without knowing the following: size, rating and type of the heat pump, lighting count and bulb type, hot water usage, laundry usage, etc it's tough to say whether an average of 170kwh is reasonable. It's not uncommon to have winter usage double or even triple over summer usage. That said, 170kwh is alot for a single detached home of this size and age with upgrades. What was the summer and winter average daily usage before these tenants moved in? I have seen heat pumps that run very inefficiently, especially in our climate. There are a few things that can be done to decrease heating costs.
-performing maintenance and cleaning of coils, filters, fans, etc
-installing programmable thermostats (with effective presets)
-ensuring vents are not blocked
-addressing heat loss through air leaks (very common)
-increasing attic insulation to R60
You can also decrease domestic hot water costs by adjusting temperature of heater, installing low flow shower heads, and turning down flow of bathroom and kitchen faucets.
Other simple fixes would be adjusting fridge and freezer temperatures, installing cfl or led bulbs in high use fixtures, install ceiling fan in areas with high ceilings, close blinds or curtains in evening, identify and eliminate ghost loads.
If you are not paying the hydro bills, and tenants are not disputing the costs, I'd say make a few simple tweaks and talk to them about possible ways they can make changes to their lifestyles to save them money. If you are covering part of the bills, I'd dig a little deeper into how to reduce these bills. I'm more than happy to help if you need it. Whether it's a simple walk through, a blower door test, or just bouncing some ideas off me, I'm here. Or you can reach me at dave AT livegreenvictoria dot com.
Cheers
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lorneparker1
Banned
what are off hours dave?
Lorne
I would like to improve on my nazism of hydro management
Lorne
I would like to improve on my nazism of hydro management
Dave S
Active Member
yet to be determined by BC hydro what the hours will be, but it's basically the hours when power is not in peak demand. Peak demand hours will be billed at a higher rate. Off hours will likely be 6pm-7am.
here is how ontario has it set up......
http://www.ontarioenergyboard.ca/OEB/Consumers/Electricity/Smart Meters
lorneparker1
Banned
I havea rental in Ontario and get beat up pretty bad on hydro at thistime of the year(especially this year as its been freezing down there). I was just curious if we had that in BC yet. whcih it sounds like we dont. SO just so im clear its a free for all right now ?
Lorne
fish stalker
Active Member
I looked into getting a second meter. It was 2g to put in from hydro and 2g from electrician for minor rewire and new panel. Its the second rate of power thats the killer. 2/3 of our power is at the higher rate.
I just went threw todays mail a few mins ago. Finally got a notice from hydro about mandatory smart meter install. Who ever built this house stuccoed in meter so they couldnt replace before. F' id like to go off grid.
On side note just remembered I found out after there is a clause that says family in a suite dosnt pay for higher rate...cant remember how it went but im looking into it when my next 'brother' moves in.
I just went threw todays mail a few mins ago. Finally got a notice from hydro about mandatory smart meter install. Who ever built this house stuccoed in meter so they couldnt replace before. F' id like to go off grid.
On side note just remembered I found out after there is a clause that says family in a suite dosnt pay for higher rate...cant remember how it went but im looking into it when my next 'brother' moves in.
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tains
Crew Member
2200sq ft, wood stove, baseboards that we don't use. 3 women in the house. 2 teenage girls, 3-4 baths per day. 2 loads laundry a day. Rental property on same land 1hp pump feeding two houses chicken coop and barn. 2 fridges, 2 small chest freezers. Hot tub and equal payments of $353/month. Just had a guy from an Energy Solutions Co. Came and told me about monitors so you can track your own energy use. Going to pick one up when I finish with some renos we are doing.
Deewar25
Well-Known Member
yeah, I'm just behind u tains with $330/month equal payments. You feel my pain, but certainly sounds like you have alot going on on your property. Dave, as 'fair goes', 80%/20% is fair in this situation in my books. As I said, D/S works so only there evening/weekends, and they lived with us for 2 years so we know their consumption is bare minimal. We have mostly LED lighting throughout, heat pump is a Lennox (not sure size, but built for the house) and maintained annually, oil backup. Insulation is pretty good, not R60 I imagine though as it was good for its day and we have a programmable thermostat set at 66 night and I believe 67 day (or 68). All those don't matter if tenants just don't care and have windows/doors open all day. We also have the hot water turned well down as those are all measures we took when we lived there. As to what it 'usually' is/was, when we lived there: 45-60 KWH in the summer, 80-100 kwh in the winter. Its now 60-70 KWH summer and 150-170 kwh winter. The last comparable for Jan was 64 kwh to 162 kwh (although I think that was a crazy estimate thinking back, so really its a 60-70% increase).
I will bring it up in conversation and if they are concerned, maybe I will contact you and have another go at the place. thx
Thx for confirming my suspicions on hydro fish stalker - sounds like if yours was $4k, mine could hit $6k.
I will bring it up in conversation and if they are concerned, maybe I will contact you and have another go at the place. thx
Thx for confirming my suspicions on hydro fish stalker - sounds like if yours was $4k, mine could hit $6k.
baddogg
Crew Member
3600 sq foot home built in 1985, new windows. All electric, no gas. Electric heat pump with back up electric furnace which only rarely comes on. My monthly payment is $174.00, equal payment plan and my daily usage averaged over last 4 bills is 61 kwh/day. Last bill was 85 kWh/day.
1600 sq ft house, $108 equal payments. Heat house with wood stove, Turned breakers off to basboards(They lots of energy) One fridge and one beer fridge in the shop. Just lights in the 720 sq ft shop right. Hot tub and electric hot water tank are the killers. BC Hydro has a 2 tier(step) program right now. Step One is $0.06800 /kW.h for the first 666 kw/h and the Step Two jumps up to $0.10190 /kW.h. I don't think a one bedroom apartment in downtown can stay under the step one. Once the smart meters are finally installed and the rotors and everything else with this smart metering program is done, they probably will go to the "time of use billing". They'll charge you alot more during peaks times. Times will probably be when most people wake up and when people get home till they go to bed. 6:00 to 9:00 am and 5:00 to 9:00 pm. Hydro has not said this for sure, but you don't spend a billion dollars and not get your money back. If you look at your smart meter it has a tier one and a tier two reading on it. Tier 1 should have your kw used and two tier will have zero. I am assuming tier two will be peak readings. Hopefully this is helpful.
2000 sqft everything electric. With some warm-living tenants (22 degrees celsius 24h) over the last few winters we averaged around 100 kW/h in the winter and 30-40 in the summer. Without the tenants and not a lot of use of the basement we stay well under 100 kWh/d in the winter (70-80). With 170 kWh you have some large appliances running wild for sure.
Baddogg, are there heatpumps that produce electricity? Any info on that? Thx.
Baddogg, are there heatpumps that produce electricity? Any info on that? Thx.
baddogg
Crew Member
There are only 2 of us D25 so that is definitely going to make a difference. Far fewer showers and laundry. We've changed over most of our light bulbs so that may help some. Heat pump is at a constant 21 degrees, but we don't cool in the summer. Hot tub at 103 year round. We have bloody phones all over the place and I keep my cell charger plugged in so these are some other areas we could cut back on. Not a fanatic, but trying to conserve.
Forgot to add that we have 3 fridges, a freezer and a wine cooler too. Kitchen fridge, beer and leftover fridge and then a fridge in the not rented suite with frozen blackberries in the freezer. Expensive blackberries by the time they are consumed.
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baddogg
Crew Member
Chris
Our heat pump is new last year. Took advantage of the Govt grants on the pump and windows. I didn't see any when shopping around that produced electricity. A wide range of prices out there so shopping around is a must. The geo thermal ones are apparently the best, but quite expensive. Ended up with a Carrier, 10 year warranty on everything and about mid range price on all the brands we had estimates for.
I had the same kind of shock in my Aug / Sept Bill Double the previous year. Complained to Hydro and was told how people can use more power when they are on vacation than when they are home. I gave them a nasty responce and threatened to take this mess to the Media. Got a call back the same day from a higher up. Long story short although you may think the usage is relayed to hydro electronically with the new SMART Meter it is apparently still read manually and they read a 5 for an 8. Maybe they read your meter wrong.
trendsetter
Active Member
The low rate works out to 22.2 KWh per day average usage. And it is possible if you don't use electricity for heat, hot water and large appliances like hot tubs. Our house is under the low rate limit for June through October. Of course we have a gas bill on top of the hydro bill. It still ends up way cheaper than what some of you are paying.
You need to remember the hot tub may only be costing you $30 per month but it's pushing the rest of your usage up into the higher tier rate so you end up paying more like $60 per month extra for having the hot tub.
You need to remember the hot tub may only be costing you $30 per month but it's pushing the rest of your usage up into the higher tier rate so you end up paying more like $60 per month extra for having the hot tub.
fish stalker
Active Member
Just for interest whats your gas bill trendsetter? My mom runs a aga stove (which runs all the time), dryer, hotwater and furnace. 250 avg monthly
When I had the hydro power smart guy out he said fridges are the one of the highest energy consumers in the house because they are always on. Its worth it to replace with new just because they can be alot more energy efficient. Washers and dryers really varied. Throw a couple plasma tvs in there and hydro is happy.
When I had the hydro power smart guy out he said fridges are the one of the highest energy consumers in the house because they are always on. Its worth it to replace with new just because they can be alot more energy efficient. Washers and dryers really varied. Throw a couple plasma tvs in there and hydro is happy.
trendsetter
Active Member
Our gas bill is $30-$40 per month in the summer and $100-$120 per month in the winter. Only the furnace and water heater run off gas, we have electric stove and w/d.
Edit: I'm in the lower mainland so we might have lower gas rates than Vancouver island.
Deewar25
Well-Known Member
Not a reading error - I had been frequenting it quite a bit checking the readings myself after I got the last estimate bill - had been 150-160 kwh the whole time.
Yeah trend, that 22 kwh usage is a pretty crazy number and they are seriously on drugs if they think any home over 1500 sq ft could even come close to staying in that range if they use hydro for heat. This last bill at our personal residence (gas for heat) was the first time we were in tier 2 since we moved (year and a 1/2 ago). Thinking back though, we realized that our gas fireplace was on the fritz for quite a while so we were using a standup electric heater for at least a month of that bill. Those are pigs and I think is probably what put us over the top. Its not usually the hottub that does us in (set only at 101).
Deewar25
Well-Known Member
Whitehorse probably has something to do with that
As for hottub, no, you are wrong. Take my last winter over 4 months, it was $63/month Nov-Feb which includes all lights, washer, power for the dryer, microwave, 2 fridges, 1 deepfreeze, tvs, stereos, computers, fan for fireplace etc etc AND hottub. That tells me in the winter, the hottub is more likely $25-30/month. Our summer bills are only $35/month - so hottub then maybe $15??
It's not the pig everyone thinks it is.
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