fact of the matter is, no one knows how big the biomass may be, measurement is not a possibility. justifying your personal decision to kill an ancient fish based on this sort of bogus arguement is just not logical. and, of course, you will remember that just a few short years ago the arguement was the salmon biomass was not in any immediate danger of collapse. believe what you will...........
Rum Buddies
Well-Known Member
Gov - I apologize for saying the total biomass is down, but infact it is the spawning biomass that is depressed.
But this get them now while you can because its going to shut down, kill kill kill is wrong and isn't going to give the sporties any outside support.
For the record I don't give 2 sh*ts if someone wants to bonk a big female but doing it to spite DFO, the Gov. or commercials is retarded.
This is the same attitude that we lament the first nations about when they say they will be the ones to catch the last salmon.
But this get them now while you can because its going to shut down, kill kill kill is wrong and isn't going to give the sporties any outside support.
For the record I don't give 2 sh*ts if someone wants to bonk a big female but doing it to spite DFO, the Gov. or commercials is retarded.
This is the same attitude that we lament the first nations about when they say they will be the ones to catch the last salmon.
Poppa S
No apology sought and none necessary, just helping keep the finer details correct so other posters doesn't get inadvertently misled.
I agree totally with you on the kill, kill, kill attitude. Wolf likely got so frustrated by some of the irrational earlier posts. I don't think he believes we should all be killing fish just to spite the government. But it certainly goads the "end is nigh" sayers!
Gov
God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
No apology sought and none necessary, just helping keep the finer details correct so other posters doesn't get inadvertently misled.
I agree totally with you on the kill, kill, kill attitude. Wolf likely got so frustrated by some of the irrational earlier posts. I don't think he believes we should all be killing fish just to spite the government. But it certainly goads the "end is nigh" sayers!
Gov
God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
C
cliffjumper
Guest
Poppa, I agree with your view & comment re: bonk.
I go out every weekend, to any rock pile I think might work. Most often I catch a lot of fish, sometimes, I'm just chukkin' lead (Oooo, I shouldn't have said that!)
I use circle hooks for bait & swallow-ables, regular hooks on hard baits. I mash my barbs on every hook, no matter my target, I let 'em back real careful, and wait till they swim before letting go.
I don't net, nor bash them around on the rocks. I don't have a camera, and I don't care if someone thinks I'm full of it... "No Pict... No Proof!".. So what? When I walk in the woods, I actually do try to keep on rock, not "biomass", as much as is possible. I bring out that other @#$%^7's garbage, and smile a hello to all I meet. I even tolerate the non-stop "Watchafishinfor's" with a smile. And I love the one... "You can't catch nuddin wid that liddle thang!"
If you take a big fish... Congrats! You bonk a big one... Congrats!.. Kill to kill??.. Nah, I'm not keen on that. Would I like to land a big one?, You bet. But, I also hear the 40#-60# taste and eat better, so that's what I'd prefer to land... But, that's me.
If you really want to puke-up over commercial fishing, take a look at a YOU Tube on tuna fishing. Sheeit, they may as well drop bombs & rake-in the remains. The entire recreational fleet in the US couldn't do in a year what that one boat did in an afternoon.
Exciting... A lot of work... livelihoods at stake... but...
The regrettable apparent details on maintaining a healthy ocean are not dissimilar to a healthy forest... You need a healthy mixed biomass of species. In the forest, planting alders & maples alongside firs force the fir tall, straight & knot-free, while feeding off the detrius of the deciduous trees & bush. The animal pop diversifies.
Same for the oceans... you need herring, sardines, pilchard and all manner of offal to feed the chain from plankton to sharks. Blather over halibut all you want, but without caring for the whole chain the top dog starves. (of course now I'm off onto prawn dredgers & tuna-ranchers...)
As far as your acknowlegement regarding "heritage-issues", if they use their cedar-bark rope and stick traps, wooden spears and bone hooks... hollowed-log canoes, and I'll accept heritage & "way"... otherwise, they're just another commercial, with the same... "we're not guilty", and "way of life", and "rights", as we all are.
It's more like we recreationals are extremely limited in how & what we do to catch... a very damned few fish... 2-4 per angler, annual max creel, no sockeye, no ling, no wild...
I read the stats on Georgia Straits Steelhead commercial bycatch on last year's DFO site (now hidden)... they landed 5 steelhead, yet I went to Safeway and saw 8 on ice, with another 5 at Thrifty's... Hmmm!... DFO... Dollars For Oligopolies! Like economists... highly educated, overpaid to guess based on theories founded on guesswork, paid for by those having vested interests in their favoured answers.
In line with what Wolf stated, a different twist, but similar... When asked about her jobs-creation plan for BC, a wannabe Premiere!, she stated..."we have to think about jobs!... We have to consider the Peace (river dist) providing power to Vancouver!"... Huh??? The really ugly thing about that should concern every one of us... The media are so stupid as to air that quote!... WITHOUT EVEN ASKING "WHAT THE SNOT-DRIPPING SHASBOT DID YOU MEAN???"... "Sea-Kittens" buy media attention... and votes. They angle their stories to populist mush-brained, media-fearing, zipper-heads. Pop-the-top insert story here, close & out it comes as policy... Magic.
That's how, after our Vanc-Enviro-dude with a "Foundation", stated the only way to conservation is by tripling your energy costs, so our government supercharged energy-costs, leading to a near-double of our food costs due to increased farm & transportation levies...
We who now starve...reducing our excessive consumption of agricultural produce...shivering in the dark, are now proudly conserving our resources... G*d that feels good... doesn't it?
Imagine, burning basic food in cars to go from home to an LA blockbuster at the Bijoux, and the deforestation, chemicals & run-off to create new corn plantations. Frankly, I'd prefer my Wild Turkey Rare Breed $25 cheaper.
If someone wants to sqawk about a damned-few fish, let's roll-up our sleeves and start on page one, line one... and 'trash' politically-correct before the first word.
It takes one heck of a lot of effort to scrub clean what you can't touch.
Salutations.
I go out every weekend, to any rock pile I think might work. Most often I catch a lot of fish, sometimes, I'm just chukkin' lead (Oooo, I shouldn't have said that!)
I use circle hooks for bait & swallow-ables, regular hooks on hard baits. I mash my barbs on every hook, no matter my target, I let 'em back real careful, and wait till they swim before letting go.
I don't net, nor bash them around on the rocks. I don't have a camera, and I don't care if someone thinks I'm full of it... "No Pict... No Proof!".. So what? When I walk in the woods, I actually do try to keep on rock, not "biomass", as much as is possible. I bring out that other @#$%^7's garbage, and smile a hello to all I meet. I even tolerate the non-stop "Watchafishinfor's" with a smile. And I love the one... "You can't catch nuddin wid that liddle thang!"
If you take a big fish... Congrats! You bonk a big one... Congrats!.. Kill to kill??.. Nah, I'm not keen on that. Would I like to land a big one?, You bet. But, I also hear the 40#-60# taste and eat better, so that's what I'd prefer to land... But, that's me.
If you really want to puke-up over commercial fishing, take a look at a YOU Tube on tuna fishing. Sheeit, they may as well drop bombs & rake-in the remains. The entire recreational fleet in the US couldn't do in a year what that one boat did in an afternoon.
Exciting... A lot of work... livelihoods at stake... but...
The regrettable apparent details on maintaining a healthy ocean are not dissimilar to a healthy forest... You need a healthy mixed biomass of species. In the forest, planting alders & maples alongside firs force the fir tall, straight & knot-free, while feeding off the detrius of the deciduous trees & bush. The animal pop diversifies.
Same for the oceans... you need herring, sardines, pilchard and all manner of offal to feed the chain from plankton to sharks. Blather over halibut all you want, but without caring for the whole chain the top dog starves. (of course now I'm off onto prawn dredgers & tuna-ranchers...)
As far as your acknowlegement regarding "heritage-issues", if they use their cedar-bark rope and stick traps, wooden spears and bone hooks... hollowed-log canoes, and I'll accept heritage & "way"... otherwise, they're just another commercial, with the same... "we're not guilty", and "way of life", and "rights", as we all are.
It's more like we recreationals are extremely limited in how & what we do to catch... a very damned few fish... 2-4 per angler, annual max creel, no sockeye, no ling, no wild...
I read the stats on Georgia Straits Steelhead commercial bycatch on last year's DFO site (now hidden)... they landed 5 steelhead, yet I went to Safeway and saw 8 on ice, with another 5 at Thrifty's... Hmmm!... DFO... Dollars For Oligopolies! Like economists... highly educated, overpaid to guess based on theories founded on guesswork, paid for by those having vested interests in their favoured answers.
In line with what Wolf stated, a different twist, but similar... When asked about her jobs-creation plan for BC, a wannabe Premiere!, she stated..."we have to think about jobs!... We have to consider the Peace (river dist) providing power to Vancouver!"... Huh??? The really ugly thing about that should concern every one of us... The media are so stupid as to air that quote!... WITHOUT EVEN ASKING "WHAT THE SNOT-DRIPPING SHASBOT DID YOU MEAN???"... "Sea-Kittens" buy media attention... and votes. They angle their stories to populist mush-brained, media-fearing, zipper-heads. Pop-the-top insert story here, close & out it comes as policy... Magic.
That's how, after our Vanc-Enviro-dude with a "Foundation", stated the only way to conservation is by tripling your energy costs, so our government supercharged energy-costs, leading to a near-double of our food costs due to increased farm & transportation levies...
We who now starve...reducing our excessive consumption of agricultural produce...shivering in the dark, are now proudly conserving our resources... G*d that feels good... doesn't it?
Imagine, burning basic food in cars to go from home to an LA blockbuster at the Bijoux, and the deforestation, chemicals & run-off to create new corn plantations. Frankly, I'd prefer my Wild Turkey Rare Breed $25 cheaper.
If someone wants to sqawk about a damned-few fish, let's roll-up our sleeves and start on page one, line one... and 'trash' politically-correct before the first word.
It takes one heck of a lot of effort to scrub clean what you can't touch.
Salutations.
r.s
So when your sittin' on the can in the morning for the next few weeks, you can read a page or two of this report of how IPHC scientists gauge halibut stock abundance, estimate biomass and catchable limits.
http://www.iphc.washington.edu/halcom/pubs/scirep/SciReport0083.pdf
Gov
God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton
actually all you have to do is read the abstract to understand what is going on. this 'commission' is justfying the commercial rape of the species. all of their mumbojumbo is focused on that one mission. this is no different than the north of falcon meetings which are totally and absolutely focused on maintaining the maximum commercial harvest, to hell with the future. if things were so cheerie, we would all be enjoying long and productive fishing seasons.
Tailspin
Active Member
The sad truth is that many commercial quota owners maintain there annual alotted quota year after year, even though there boats were sold off years ago. They just sell it off each fall to the boats who have fished out there quota. I know for a fact this happens as i know a few guys out of Hardy very well, who purchase additional quota during the rougher weather late season etc. I can't blame them for purchasing it to keep cashflow going in a tough industy, however i do think the licensed quota should be attached to the vessle fishing it, not sold off from the Cook Islands by some guy who used to fish 30 years ago.
It sure was a kick in the ol' can that the media tuned the Electronic Monitering Program against the Rec Sector[xx(].
nice fish Des
www.tailspincharters.com
It sure was a kick in the ol' can that the media tuned the Electronic Monitering Program against the Rec Sector[xx(].
nice fish Des
www.tailspincharters.com
C
cliffjumper
Guest
What a screen hog I'm turning out to be... I didn't want to.
reelfast, you're not wrong. There's an allowable take however the US & Canada determine that. I don't know if you know, but the Canadian take has been "granted", (given), in perpetuity to the commercials. It's a no-cost gift, on the premise only the commercials know how to manage the resource. If they don't catch their allowable during what ordinarily would be the season, they're allowed to get back out & kill the rest later or carry it over. The theory is to reduce pressure on the stocks.
An extremely small portion of the allowable take is allotted to the recreationals. I forget, but this year, I think it's around 12%, maybe 10%
If (we) go over our "take", we actually have to go to the bank and borrow some cash to lease another percent or two from the commercials. This cash is rent. We further have to pay them back in a further-reduced recreational take next year... and the next year???
Let me understand this... I (citizen who owns the resource) gave away ALL my fish forever, then have to pay the commercials to catch what was once my, (all citizens'), fish. Gee, that makes perfect sense to me.
This is not so much a "conservation" issue as it is one of the most brain-dead machiavellian (sp?) social experiments since Western Forest Products, a near bankrupt for decades (through varied iterations), managed to actually "OWN" almost half south Vanc Island... in exchange for what?, a timber license we granted (gave) them in the first place???.. because they were broke and couldn't find a market for lumber?
The allowable catch is a conservation issue. The debate is not about that.
The debate is the unconsionable manner by which division & management of the division have evolved.
It's division of what was a public asset, once persued in a season by license, and the manner by which we (a greater percent of the population than commercials) are allowed to touch, release or taste our diminishing division as a percent.
It's conceptually similar to the (crown) people owning the fresh water rights, and access to that fresh water, then giving sole access & ownership to some foreign government to ship bottled water globally. We receive a small royalty, but then have to give that royalty back plus some, by having to pay them for us to draw or access water from our own resources.., and being cut-back in our permissable drawings year after year because we actually drew some water... Hello?... Do I see the old chemical toilets in our future?
People are getting this issue confused with conservation, and that it is not. That ignorance is vividly-outlined by the Times Communist and vacuous letters to editor... And of course that used-politician, Husband, who simply will not move to Venezuala where she'd feel more politically comfortable and far more relaxed. They have social healthcare there so she'd be looked after.
Cheers!
reelfast, you're not wrong. There's an allowable take however the US & Canada determine that. I don't know if you know, but the Canadian take has been "granted", (given), in perpetuity to the commercials. It's a no-cost gift, on the premise only the commercials know how to manage the resource. If they don't catch their allowable during what ordinarily would be the season, they're allowed to get back out & kill the rest later or carry it over. The theory is to reduce pressure on the stocks.
An extremely small portion of the allowable take is allotted to the recreationals. I forget, but this year, I think it's around 12%, maybe 10%
If (we) go over our "take", we actually have to go to the bank and borrow some cash to lease another percent or two from the commercials. This cash is rent. We further have to pay them back in a further-reduced recreational take next year... and the next year???
Let me understand this... I (citizen who owns the resource) gave away ALL my fish forever, then have to pay the commercials to catch what was once my, (all citizens'), fish. Gee, that makes perfect sense to me.
This is not so much a "conservation" issue as it is one of the most brain-dead machiavellian (sp?) social experiments since Western Forest Products, a near bankrupt for decades (through varied iterations), managed to actually "OWN" almost half south Vanc Island... in exchange for what?, a timber license we granted (gave) them in the first place???.. because they were broke and couldn't find a market for lumber?
The allowable catch is a conservation issue. The debate is not about that.
The debate is the unconsionable manner by which division & management of the division have evolved.
It's division of what was a public asset, once persued in a season by license, and the manner by which we (a greater percent of the population than commercials) are allowed to touch, release or taste our diminishing division as a percent.
It's conceptually similar to the (crown) people owning the fresh water rights, and access to that fresh water, then giving sole access & ownership to some foreign government to ship bottled water globally. We receive a small royalty, but then have to give that royalty back plus some, by having to pay them for us to draw or access water from our own resources.., and being cut-back in our permissable drawings year after year because we actually drew some water... Hello?... Do I see the old chemical toilets in our future?
People are getting this issue confused with conservation, and that it is not. That ignorance is vividly-outlined by the Times Communist and vacuous letters to editor... And of course that used-politician, Husband, who simply will not move to Venezuala where she'd feel more politically comfortable and far more relaxed. They have social healthcare there so she'd be looked after.
Cheers!
wolf
Well-Known Member
Poppa you know very well where
I come from I have always and will mantain a high standard for fishing its just soooo frustrating knowing we are getting shafted like crazy and in no way is it going to be better, im tired of all the BS plain and simple and I think personally the only way it will ever get resolved is if we take the Government to court which is beond our capabilities as it will be in the millions to do so we need help and we need it bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thanks Wolf
I come from I have always and will mantain a high standard for fishing its just soooo frustrating knowing we are getting shafted like crazy and in no way is it going to be better, im tired of all the BS plain and simple and I think personally the only way it will ever get resolved is if we take the Government to court which is beond our capabilities as it will be in the millions to do so we need help and we need it bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thanks Wolf
