How many salmon do they eat in a life time???

[cliffjumper]

In Wash, just below the Bonnyville dam & fish ladder, there's a herd of (a smaller strain) sealions beating the crap out of the returning salmon... One bite & on to the next! Then they return for the smolts in the spring.

The buffalo issue was incurred by a very few elitists on trains who, unlike C&R anglers, couldn't release their "catch"... Kind of like those Bonny sealions, one bite & NEXT! For them, more lead sounds like a good idea.

Cheers!

 

[profisher]

When any other species on the planet gets to 6 billion and counting (except insects) then we can talk seriously about letting fly with some lead!! Get off the seals...we are the ones screwing up everything..we are like George Carlin said "the earths infestation" And one day she will get pissed off enough and shake us all off like a bad case of fleas. Then balance in nature could possibly return.

 

[profisher]

Hey cliff....I bet those fish trapped at the Dam are wondering who the F&*k put this fish trap here..letting the sea lions pick us off so easily....it all comes back to a human f*(k up!!!

 

[Peahead]

quote:Originally posted by Deewar25

based on drhook numbers, sure, if you look at it over a lifetime, its nasty, but if you look at it daily, we are talking 28lbs of fish each. That is basically 1 large, or 2 average springs a day - not exactly gluttony for something that big.

The problem seals are the ones that need to be removed (no different than a bear that finds a garbage can closing as a dinner bell) - the marina seals that sit there waiting for scraps at the cleaner table, sammy the lazy butt fisherman wharf seal, the Puntledge River lazy pick em off as they go upstream seals. These are the ones to deal with...1/2 the time though, its our own damn fault - after all, how many on the board directly feed them every time they clean the fish? Likely 90% here. I do what I can at least to 'avoid' the easy meal - I will throw my carcass on the rocks just at tide level - give em to the gulls and crabs - at least make the lardasses work to reach it! Don't complain when you are directly to blame for their laziness and mooching ways.

Sorry, but have to chuckle a bit sometimes because I really wonder why occassionally you seem to get a person on here gets an idea they think is correct and go off ....in this case blaming fishers that clean fish at cleaning stations for encouraging seals to chase Salmon in Rivers!!! Thats actually funny. Its an interesting opinion but thats all it is until I see research that proves this.
I'd say the seals at marinas that scrounge salmon parts from the bottom of a marina learn nothing about chasing salmon. My guess is that they learn to get food with no work at all by hanging around the marina ( may actually have the reverse effect by keeping them at Marinas to become tame and keep them away from moving into River mouths) The problem with marina seals is that they become tame and learn that they can get food scraps easily and often....then start to rely on that way of getting food and can become a nusance. That has its own problems as was had at Thundrebird marina this year with that seal that would come up on the dock ( and grabbed a kid). I am not a marine biologist but this is my opinion . I will however look into this further but sorry I don't beleive that easy pickings of salmon scraps at marinas causes seals to chase salmon anywhere. Using your example of Bears to further make my point....yes , garbage attract bears an people should try to follow proper methods of garbage disposal but when a Bear constantly gets garbage this doesn't cause the Bears to go out in the wild somewhere and chase faster moving live food !! The opposite....they hang out in the dump looking for more garbage !

 

[Deewar25]

peahead, was never saying that marina fish are the same ones that screw with the river, more about the commentary of seals that associate humans with free food because we make it easy for them - the marina type seals are being domesticated and I find that the problem (like you said relating to the one taking down the kid in the summer). If they never got anything from us, they would likely act like the wild mammal they are. Truthfully, I'd be curious what the marina seals do in general - do they live there permanently or just come and go - I know sammy seems to just live there, but what about the other marinas - they don't ALWAYS seem to be there....do they take time out sitting on the rocks waiting for the dinner bell of the screaming rod? I'd be curious! Obviously picking off a salmon on a rod would make sense as natural instinct since it is 'stuggling' to get around and you pick off the weak in the wild, but what about the ones that just sit and wait for the clicker - is that instinct, or training/association?

Hey, fishing over for a while, need to think what makes the world tick sometimes! ha

 

[HOOTEY]

Yes PROFISHER we all see you to have something to say as an opinion, in my opinion and this is what these forums are all about is for all of us less informwed or as wise oh profishiser,my opinion is to stop reading these forums so you dont have a heart attack because then I am guessing you will blame me another human of your illnes,,,,,highopimiomitiis....[^][^][^][^]

 

[profisher]

I have opinions like everyone else..humans screwing up everything and blaming anything but themselves in not an opinion..just a fact. Every current problem on the planet comes back to us. I'm not going to feel guilty about taking the seals side and giving them a voice! They've been **** on enough already in the past. If they weren't protected, how many would be left today? I promise not to get so stressed and have a coronary, but if the Leafs make the playoffs and the Canucks don't all bets are off. What do the Leafs, Blue Jays and Raptors all have in common? (other than Toronto) None can play hockey!

 

[phnapa]

one must consider that up until 10 years the commercial fleet killed hundreds of seals every year, if a seal got close to the net, or started picking off the troll gear , they were dealt with swiftly!!!
As we as humans at the top of the food chain take out farther down the food chain we have to regulate our competetors or there will be a huge unbalance in the chain, resulting in shortages for all, its just the way it is!! Its a big responsability being at the top!

 

[profisher]

Just want to ask...what species is the most out of balance on the planet and causes the most grief for the rest of those sharing this planet? Geez I'm sounding like a tree hugger!!!! Don't worry I'm not, maybe just missed the 60's by a bit and catching on now and becoming a hippy! lol

 

[Peahead]

quote:Originally posted by Deewar25

peahead, was never saying that marina fish are the same ones that screw with the river, more about the commentary of seals that associate humans with free food because we make it easy for them - the marina type seals are being domesticated and I find that the problem (like you said relating to the one taking down the kid in the summer). If they never got anything from us, they would likely act like the wild mammal they are. Truthfully, I'd be curious what the marina seals do in general - do they live there permanently or just come and go - I know sammy seems to just live there, but what about the other marinas - they don't ALWAYS seem to be there....do they take time out sitting on the rocks waiting for the dinner bell of the screaming rod? I'd be curious! Obviously picking off a salmon on a rod would make sense as natural instinct since it is 'stuggling' to get around and you pick off the weak in the wild, but what about the ones that just sit and wait for the clicker - is that instinct, or training/association?

Hey, fishing over for a while, need to think what makes the world tick sometimes! ha

Agree with the bulk of what you say!! I don't beleive marina seals are the same ones that are stealing our fish off our lines and I don't beleive a marina Seal is encouraged to do so but agree feeding them scraps at the cleaning station does domesticate them, which isn't good. I beleive that Seals learn to catch Salmon from our lines simply because they are smart enough to learn how to do it. The Salmon is in a weakened state when attached to a hook flasher and line. It makes it easier for the seal to get them. Pretty logical really. Same as Salmon in weakened state (or cornered) in Rivers. I do beleive that experienced seals may teach others how to do it too!
It feels lousy when a Seal takes a fish off my line but its my own fault really, as it was me who made it easier for the Seal! Its even worse when you release a fish and then a Seal swoops up and grabs the thing. Poor frig'in fish, just when it thinks its free.

LOL....how can you tell I have been home injured last few days ....I have to get out soon..... on this site too much this week !!

 

[IronNoggin]

quote:Originally posted by Peahead
...I don't beleive marina seals are the same ones that are stealing our fish off our lines and I don't beleive a marina Seal is encouraged to do so but agree feeding them scraps at the cleaning station does domesticate them

The term is actually "Habituate". Same term used to identify a bear that has become used to humans, and moreover, used to humans providing a food source. The same as with seals and sea lions, these animals may appear as tame as a domestic beast, but they ain't. They are both unpredictable, often become very stubborn/determined to access their desires, and can at times prove dangerous.

Recognizing this, some facilities post warning signage regarding feeding seals and sea lions, and require all offal (guts, heads, the works) be carried away from the facility for disposal. Keeps the interaction down to a dull roar. However these animals are often still oriented on the free food source. In harbors that also house seafood plants, a virtual smorgasbord is set. Under these conditions, there is no need for the animal to wander far, and many rarely do except for their annual voyage to the happy horny grounds.

On the West Coast, the largest problem isn't related to seals as much as it is to sea lions. California</u> Sea Lions to be specific. At one time they were but a rare visitor here. Then, the native version of the species, the Stellars</u> Sea Lion was the predominant of the two by far on our coast. Unfortunately all round for the native Stellars, their numbers began a downward spiral. That at the same time as the Crazies, Huggers, Activists (or whatever) initiated their now famous campaign to brainwash the masses that such brown-eyed, cuddly looking and charismatic animals such as sea lions should have the same rights as humans (fer Cri$akes, they perform in the Circus don't they?), or at least afforded the maximum protection under the Law.

Jump forward to today. The Stellars (poor ba$tards!) are in even worse shape than they were before being blessed with that blanket of protection. Ah, but not so for the invading California Lions! Their numbers skyrocketed, and now, they are very much the predominant species over much of the coast. And their numbers are expanding! Boy are they EVER! In fact, their numbers are greater than likely ever existed! But what's good for these aliens, ain't always so good for the areas they colonate.

With their limited numbers, and even though they often grow considerably larger than the newcomers, the Stellars face stiff competition for both food and habitat requirements, further driving them downward - a trend that WILL continue if the balance is left to sort itself out.

Couple the facts outlined above with an already high invasive sea lion population increasing at an exponential rate, and it isn't all that difficult to wrap your mind around the volume of seafood that is required to drive this insatiable machine. And the more they increase, the greater the pressure, and so on, and so on...

Of course these animals are intelligent, and effective predators. A battling fish on the end of your line is simply too easy. And yes, they do teach both their young and herd mates effective hunting techniques. Pretty well anyone who fishes by any means out there today has witnessed just how effective they can be, and especially when in formed hunting groups.

And, this too is a reflection of an ever increasing population. By sheer numbers, they are encountering us out on the water more and more often, and figuring out just how they can take advantage of that situation. Again, as these numbers increase, so will the incidence of negative interaction.

So, today, there is NO biological reason not to reduce the numbers of California Sea Lions on the WCVI. In fact, it might well prove beneficial to many marine species, notably the Stellars Sea Lion, and likely stocks ranging from salmon down through crabs.

Ah but we still have the Bleeding Hearts Club. Those who do not want to see such "brown-eyed, cuddly looking and charismatic animals" populations managed, even if it is for their, and everything else's benefit. I do find it amusing that some of those who feel that way actually sportfish.

As for me, I'd suggest their numbers be brought back in check. Not suggesting complete destruction here, but a cull to reasonable numbers more than seems warranted.

Cheers,
Nog

 

[HOOTEY]

Thanks Ironnoggin, thats all I was trying to say.

 

[profisher]

Nog..as a spokesman for the seals side...the seals say they will go along with that plan...they would like us to reciprocate does 50% of each species sound ok as a starting point?
My entire point in this argument about seals is ya..there are more seals around and at some point there will be to many...we (humans) are already way past that. So you have to find a better reason to do any cull, saying they are over-populated and therefor must be culled is hypocritical. Thats what the seals say anyway!

 

[IronNoggin]

quote:Originally posted by profisher

..there are more seals around and at some point there will be to many...we (humans) are already way past that. So you have to find a better reason to do any cull, saying they are over-populated and therefor must be culled is hypocritical.

The point has already been achieved with regards to sea lions - they are past what is termed "Carrying Capacity", as in well</u> overpopulated. The entire system is now suffering as a consequence, and this WILL get worse as their numbers increase even further.

In a parallel situation, humans have likely surpassed carrying capacity as well - agreed. There are simply too many of us. Are YOU going to be amongst the first to openly admit that, and stand up and say: "Shoot Me First"? Didn't think so... [^]

While we both can recognize the issues surrounding our own ever-increasing populations, and the stress that is placing on what remains of the natural systems that support us, methinks we are somewhat limited in how we can effectively deal with that matter. The various "culls" of our species that have occurred by our own hand over time are generally met with horror and distaste. And even with great determination, in the end they really haven't proved all that successful. So while we are indeed out of balance with what this planet can support, until we can determine an acceptable method of reducing those numbers, perhaps it might be best to focus on working towards maintaining a balance in those situations where that is required.

The sea lion population here is very much one of those situations I refer to. It was humans, running interference in a host of ways (directed predator reductions, blanket protection under the Law, etc), that created the problems we face today. Left to a "natural" balance, the sea lion populations would have never reached the lofty heights of today. Ah, but the system today is anything but natural. And yes, our fault entirely.

That said, it is directly our responsibility to recognize, and to try and correct the sway from balance our activities have created. The current situation is placing FAR to much stress on the marine ecosystem, and as noted, we created this imbalance. The only RESPONSIBLE</u> thing for us to do at this juncture is to attempt to bring the balance more in line with what the system can support. To do less is to risk the ultimate collapse of both the seal populations you claim to admire and support, and indeed the system that barely supports them. Sorry (not) but that risk is FAR too real, and far to much of a threat to a great many other species as to outweigh controlling burgeoning populations of these particular animals.

And while I do understand, and often play the Devil's Advocate on occasion, methinks you are missing the point: There simply is no "better reason to do any cull". We created the current imbalance. The stress that is placing on the entire system is already unacceptable, and destined to worsen down the road. Therefore it is entirely up to us to rectify the situation we created, and bring the balance back towards what the system can support. That, or sit idly by and watch it collapse in it's entirety.

Finally, as for understanding and conversing with seals - I did know another (a few actually) that laid claim to being able to do so. Fortunately most folks with a smattering of gray matter recognized the ramblings of Watson et al to be exactly what they were: Misguided, uninformed, sensationalist rantings of the Lunatic Fringe. I actually do hope that in your case, you are doing so with tongue in cheek...[}]

Cheers,
Nog

 

[calmsea]

Let's start a "BC Transient Orca Hatchery"!!!

 

[bacon]

one shot nobody care

http://www.salmonfest.ca
check out my pictures

 

[profisher]

Well I'm not a seal lover, I curse them when they take a fish from me or my customer as much as anyone else. However I'm not as quick to jump on the cull bandwagon. What is the plan to keep from having to do it all over again in a few years...that is another of OUR problems...smart enough to solve a problem but stupid enough to create 3 more in the process. By the way I'm in favour of taking my chances in a human cull. No bullets, just close all the Safeways etc...half the population would starve in 2 weeks. We are so smart we can't survive without going SHOPPING for food. If we did this during the winter we could eliminate most of those annoying vegetarians too. LOL

 

[yo mama]

Yep same topic different year. the earth was fine till we f#$%ed it up starting about 200 years ago. never a problem. we come in rape and pilage and now blame everyone but our selves the recreational fisherman for the problem. Humans have always been the problem not seals. there numbers are due to actions humans have made. they have no option but to eat fish unlike us humans that can hit up Harveys if we like. quick blaming a small mammal that is trying to eat a meal for the reason you guys can't fit another salmon in the deep freeze to go bad in a year. might as well get rid of all the Whales next...start with the J pod i heard they eat the most.

 

[Dirtdog67]

X2- How's things mama, we still need to hit up the flow this winter for some chrome.. Quit talking and start shwakin.. cheers dirty

 

[Gunsmith]

Just train the seals and sea lions to hang around the fish farms.
Plenty of fish there.