Herring staging on the east coast of the Rock
- Thread starter Cuba Libre
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Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
Strait of Georgia ecosystem model – D. Preikshot & I. Perry, Fisheries and Oceans Canada
So before blaming herring population crashes solely on commercial harvest has anyone here analised supporting ecology of herring? Do you know of any scientific studies that prove consistency to the phytoplankton, detritus or macrophytes? Starfish coastwise died off along with mussels in 2013-2014 with no human intervention. What makes everyone here think this doesn’t happen with herring?
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
Do you mean us in bc stop fishing and Chinook will rebound?
5% or less of spawning biomass like California does takes care of your concern/issue as 5% of nothing is still nothing. This is not about blaming as that gets you nowhere its about sustainability going forward.
wishiniwasfishin1
Well-Known Member
Here is an article about the issue written yesterday:
https://seashepherd.org/2018/03/05/...herring-roe-fishery-a-red-herring-saynotoroe/
https://seashepherd.org/2018/03/05/...herring-roe-fishery-a-red-herring-saynotoroe/
Charter Tofino
Well-Known Member
Nobody has denied that herring populations flucate naturally.
It’s not even that the biomass populations have crashed due to commercial fishing( which they did in some areas). It’s the fact we are still fishing a keystone species with a management strategy that hasn’t changed in decades as the ecosystem around it has gone downhill. Management needs to recognize the commulative negative affects through the food chain of removing up to 20% of the biomass annually. The value to our ecosystem is more than the 200-300$ a ton they get off the boat.
Fish4all do you think commercial fishing herring should continue at its current state?
It’s not even that the biomass populations have crashed due to commercial fishing( which they did in some areas). It’s the fact we are still fishing a keystone species with a management strategy that hasn’t changed in decades as the ecosystem around it has gone downhill. Management needs to recognize the commulative negative affects through the food chain of removing up to 20% of the biomass annually. The value to our ecosystem is more than the 200-300$ a ton they get off the boat.
Fish4all do you think commercial fishing herring should continue at its current state?
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Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
Many on here have expressed the herring biomass has collapsed because of commercial fisheries. I was mentioning an other scientific explanation to the changes in population abundance’s which nobody here cares to acknowledge. Just like blaming interior Steelhead collapse on gillnets without acknowledging the lack of supporting ecology in the reproductive and rearing streams.
There seems to be a need to point fingers at others before first assuring the depressions aren’t happening naturally.
I personally feel there are far greater forces at play then the herring fisheries. I also feel displacing the herring fishermen will do nothing to benefit salmon or srkw’s. If everyone here got their way by eliminating herring fisheries and fish farms where do you think the people employed at those occupations should find employment next? Does anybody care about them or only there interests? Maybe our neighbors and fellow residents deserve to have the natural fluctuations of ecology be eliminated before there occupations are thrown under the bus or unjustly blamed for natural depressions. I don’t feel it appropriate to blame sportfishing for the demise of salmon when I know very well the depression has happened from natural causes.
Something for us to be optimistic about is the fact that in 2015 there was the largest rockfish spawn in possibly 100 years. This has happened even though rockfish have been fished for most of the same time.
There seems to be a need to point fingers at others before first assuring the depressions aren’t happening naturally.
I personally feel there are far greater forces at play then the herring fisheries. I also feel displacing the herring fishermen will do nothing to benefit salmon or srkw’s. If everyone here got their way by eliminating herring fisheries and fish farms where do you think the people employed at those occupations should find employment next? Does anybody care about them or only there interests? Maybe our neighbors and fellow residents deserve to have the natural fluctuations of ecology be eliminated before there occupations are thrown under the bus or unjustly blamed for natural depressions. I don’t feel it appropriate to blame sportfishing for the demise of salmon when I know very well the depression has happened from natural causes.
Something for us to be optimistic about is the fact that in 2015 there was the largest rockfish spawn in possibly 100 years. This has happened even though rockfish have been fished for most of the same time.
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
Fake news that only presents info to support their objectives.
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
Kelly. I forgot to respond to your mention of 20% reduction in biomass annually. What about the other species not harvested like sand lance, which salmon love to eat. If all the herring were depleated do you not think there would be an expansion of the un harvested sand lance to take their place? If no why not?
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
That is completely untrue and many have commented on it many times. Climate change and warm waters are our biggest issues. I could site a million research papers that show warming pacific waters are doing the majority of the harm.
https://www.psf.ca/sites/default/files/2010_034_e.pdf
There is no quick fix for climate change tho and that why you will notice that most of the topics that are repeatedly brought up are the "quick fix"
remove fish farms, kill seals, stop fishing for herring ect..
Also it's fair to point out
Anchovy return in huge numbers to Howe Sound
http://www.nsnews.com/news/anchovy-return-in-huge-numbers-to-howe-sound-1.2336492
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Whats fake about this?
This thread is about Herring Biomass and the herring fishery. Start a new thread if you want to discuss "greater forces at play".
Charter Tofino
Well-Known Member
Ken, I don’t take closing fisheries lightly as many close friends are employed in the Herring fishery and open pen salmon farming industry. Great people who work hard for their wage. I don’t wish for them to loose their job but if it’s coming at the cost of our ecosystem which employees countless then they are going to have to find sustainable alternatives.
I agree there are overlooked natural forces at play which are difficult to understand. The massive rockfish spawn, last years large Sablefish spawn and the quick disappearance of Pilchards are a few recent examples. I have to disagree that humans don’t play a role in our current struggling ecosystem and that stopping the herring fishery will not give some benefit to Chinook.
Sand Lance numbers and biology are beyond me. It would depend on how much they directly competed with herring and habitat/food limitations.
I agree there are overlooked natural forces at play which are difficult to understand. The massive rockfish spawn, last years large Sablefish spawn and the quick disappearance of Pilchards are a few recent examples. I have to disagree that humans don’t play a role in our current struggling ecosystem and that stopping the herring fishery will not give some benefit to Chinook.
Sand Lance numbers and biology are beyond me. It would depend on how much they directly competed with herring and habitat/food limitations.
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
Ok staged news designed to sell a certain objective. This is what I see in this photo.Whats fake about this?
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
Well I’m not convinced closing farms or stopping herring fisheries will cause enough benefit to salmon to warrant eliminating these industries. Together these industries may contribute more to the economy than just sportfishng. People need jobs! What other sustainable industry do you recommend the farmers and fishermen go to if their present work was eliminated? Sportfishing isn’t much of an option anymore!
fish4all
Well-Known Member
I think all wild commercial fisheries done in a responsible and scientifically defensible way are a good thing. They feed the people that can’t afford a charter or live on the coast. They employ our coastal communities and the majority are now monitored up the ying yang with cameras or observers. Herring is one of them.
As for value you are way off. $300 is what Jimmey pays his boats.
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
Terrin I was talking about the forces effecting herring biomass. Why do I need to start another thread to discuss this?
california
Well-Known Member
The Strait of Georgia is mainly what we are talking about here, and the fishery is worth at $500 per ton $11.5 million. At 300 per ton its about $8million. Thats in an economy with a GDP of $221 Billion for the province, 1.8 Trillion for the country. So yes it will effect a small number of fisherman, but it pales in comparison in impact how cuts to forestry, or mechanization of agriculture or any number of changes to the economy through technological change imapact jobs. The fish farming industry has more jobs and value to be sure, and why it likely will never be forced off the water by government, technological change and consumer sentiment will need to do that. No one action will be a silver bullet, but we know there are tens of millions of smolts that go into the strait, and disappear as young fish. I know you want us to believe there is only one cause, water chemistry and nothing else matter, and it well may be part of the puzzle, but I personally believe there are many factors, and removing 20% of the herring biomass just before it spawns, effectively reducing 20% of a major potential source of food for small organisms including young salmon (over a trillion eggs, huge numbers of larvae and juvenile herring) has the potential to effect the ecosystem. For such a small value fishery, I personally don't see the benefit to potential cost trade off to be favourable.
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