Head return for DFO

[wolf]

Well there seems to be some confusion as to what is going on with area 19/20 and why we were closed.
DFO and SFAB and some local guides indeed did meet in vic and sooke yesterday to discuss a project to get ACCURATE DATA</u> from the guiding community and have asked us to provide head returns and a data log books which I can only speck for the sooke boys all of us are going to do.

Im not going to blow smoke up your A$$es forum members but the SFAB needs our help because the DATA which they (creel) is a tad bit inflated and completlly wrong they know it but its the only data they have so its what they have to go by hence us giving them our data will help greatly, is it going to hurt us who knows but whats been going on latly isnt helping us at ALL really!!!!!! So we all said ok as everything collected for this year we are going to meet again in the new yr. to discuss how the season went and what we can do for the 2011 year and hopefully not a closeure annouced on june 1st....Will there be a closeure next year YES I would imagine but im sure if we get some hard data it will shed some better light as to what is really going on. not estimates...

So now your thinking WHY TURN IN HEADS AND GIVE INFO

When our Reps Chris and Tom go into these meeting with no data or info from us guides ,sportfisherman they are getting hammered by the people involved they definatlly need our help these 2 men who are representing you,me,your family etc have worked VERY hard and are trying to help us save our oppertunity to FISH. And I want to help them they work very hard for us and should be getting our support fully my hats off to them both thank you!!!!

Now most of us know we dont get too many hatchery heads return from this run but when we do lets put them in and if you want to go even further make up your own data book and record every thing down, on this book it has everything on it from times fished to what species caught,fish released etc etc thats why we are putting all this data in even if we dont catch anything or dont get hatchery fish DATA is DATA and it will be accurate not them flying over doing estimates on how many fish "could" have been caught in relation to the number of boats out there.

I have talked to Chris (governor) and he has instructed me if sportfisherman want to help to e-mail him or phone him and he will get you data books to fill out and then return to him after the summer his e-mail is and info his here for you

Christopher Bos
Victoria and Area Committee Chair
Sport Fishing Advisory Board
(250) 652-4141
C.Bos@shaw.ca

I guess what I am asking is what has been going on isnt working worth DOO DOO so it may be time for us to have a say and voice regarding what we do as sportsmen/woman if you dont want to help that is your choice, if you do and want to impact what goes on then help Chris to help you.

Thank You and

Good Luck Wolf




Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com

 

[wolf]

Just on a side note if/when you do return the heads into the depots.
Ill use this as a hypothetical situation that the week of june 1 to june 7 say there was 20 spring heads turned in and they test them and they find hhhhhhhmmmm only 2 were from the nicola run and some were from the puget sound area,others from a different run etc etc etc well then they will know that we really are NOT impacting to the point they THINK we are!!!!

Wiil this be done in 1 year of course not BUT given a couple of years it will definattly show a trend........for our future fishery...

Good luck Wolf

Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com

 

[Deewar25]

I appreciate the handing in heads part - that is a must, but I don't get what the problem is with handing in our licenses every March when they expire. No brainer if they want to figure out how many chinook are caught annually - theres your date, theres your management zone, theres your total per person. Friggin done! You can have drop boxes wherever the heck you want, or just get us to mail them in. I will pay 50c stamp to mail mine in. It is no hardship for anyone to mail them in if they care about fishing.

Sift through data logs is silly when you can get an exact number this way to include all non-guides as well (assuming people are honest and write down their catch).

Think of all those man hours standing out on the dock asking questions, cost of flying over, tallying data, where you could just have 5 guys counting up 200k licenses over a week or two period.

Too logical. Heaven forbid.

 

[wolf]

Dave we brought that up last night and that doesnt give you enough detailed info as its to broad of a spectrum as the data book has exact to the point where you got the fish if you put area 20 on your lic as the fish caught where from that area goes from race rocks to renfrew way too big, a book is for the people on YOUR boat so say 4 of you fishing and you caught 2 fish and you say otter it has times how big etc tons of data for them to use.

Dont take this the wrong way this is not silly this is real and if you dont want to do it thats your choice if you have some grips questions and want some more info feel free to e-mail chris personally


Good luck Wolf

Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com

 

[drhook]

One immediate problem that I see is that the results of our effectiveness is going to be scewed. Think about it, we got the best fishermen (the guides) out on the water catching their limit almost everyday when 'average joe' angler is no where near as effective.
Yes, it will provide data on what streams the fish came from but it will make it look like we catch way more fish than we actually do. I hope that the stats people at DFO take this into account.

 

[JuandeOne]

So to clarify. When I go off Victoria tomorrow and throw my limit of clipped springs in the coffin I should take all these heads to the depot?

 

[wolf]

I dont want this to turn into a debate as to turn in a lic etc, they dont want IT thats about as plain and simple as i an put it trying to go thru 400000 lic in a year is not feasable!!!!

That is why the BOOK we all have them now in our boats and are starting as soon as we go out fishing. like I stated before if you didnt read it.

Trust me we brought up a lot of good things and arguments last night from a lot of good people and we are not looking at this as a simple solution its a STARTING piont which is going forward not "talking" about it.

You can debate all you want back and forth on what you think is a solution but the FACTS are we are damn lucky we got what we got if you want to have a 1 or 2 month closure for next year thats your choice but I personally want to TRY something new and proceed foreward not backwards going over and over the same stuff.

Do what you want but I want to see some change and this is the first step and for DFO and SFAB to come to us and "help" with our future whats it going to hurt ??????
The way its going now if we dont do something to start and if some certain user groups get there way you wont have too worry you wont be fishing PERIOD!!!!!!!
Balls in your court..

To answer your question John YES as you know they are not going to the nicola we all know there american fish and if your that confident in getting a limit

Wolf

Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com

 

[Deewar25]

It's a start and it wouldn't take that long to take data from licenses - it has a total number beside it...done. You could probably do 20/minute, or 10k a day....thats 5 guys for 7 days for a bare minimum quantity.

To break it into zone, you could probably do 10/minute (most fish same zone) - you are talking 5 guys 2 weeks, to break it into fish in each month, thats longer for sure - maybe a month of work. Sure, it isn't as detailed as they would like, but considering what they've been using so far?????

The alternative presented?? Sift through pages of pages for each person with a boat? 100k there I assume - thats worse in my books and its WAY easier to convince people to mail in or drop off their licenses than it is to convince people to buy a book, document every single day of fishing, then mail that in. Think about it, that's your DD - that's your fishing experience - you giving that up so you don't have it anymore, or photocopying 200 pages every year??? No way will that fly!

I realize you are the just the messenger - nothing about you, but logic to me says thats a hopeless proposition.

Mail in the damn licenses...hell, send them to my house and I'll do it - I'm not going to b i t c h about how long it takes to know I have an actual catch count that is probably 95% accurate.

Better yet - put a bloody form on the DFO website so we can make the entry ourself at the end of the year. Computer tallies it up and no man hours whatsoever. Hell, they could even insist subzones on the license and actually have easy access to the map on the website so we have a clue and we can enter the subzone.

Seriously, this is so friggin easy.

 

[wolf]

DAVE your not listening(reading)ITS not what they want can you hear me?????you know what if you want send in your last yrs lic and tell them your grips ok....enough said

This is what they wanted from us and all the sooke guides after listening to what DFO had to say are going to do it processing 500,000 lic is not feasable at the end of the year.Like I stated earlier the book is way more detailed in data,its for EVERY TRIP </u> that you go out even if you do or dont catch fish thats why a lic just shows WHAT you caught they want exaclly what you caught and released and any other species time on the water etc etc you really have to see the book to understand its one page that you check off boxes and write very minimal for ALL the people on your boat.

A data book is what they want and its a starting point im not going to debate you back and forth if you want call me personally and we can chat think of a positive for once and not negative please you have my number call it!!!!

Where did I say you had to buy a book???? or photo copy??? they will give you a book FREE!!!!!!!where the hell did that come from????ALL the sooke guides (at the meeting)are willing to try why not you???
Cmon man let cooler heads prevail I dont like this as much a you do and yes im scared too but the alternative of not fishing at all really doesnt appeal to me one bit!!!!!!!


wolf


Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com

 

[Deewar25]

Don't worry Roy, I totally understand your stance and realize it is what they have requested from the guides. I am just talking out loud as to what in my mind is an easier solution even if it doesn't get exactly what they need. In theory, yes, it sounds great, and the guides will help, but its still only a small 'sampling' by the best fishers of the sea - its biased. The only way to get true accuracy is to sample ALL fishers. If they mail us all books, great, but I'm just saying its much easier to get licenses out of joe-blow than it will be to get them to go pick up a book, document daily and send it in. I have no problem doing that for the 3 or 4 times annually I take my tin boat...done, fine, but I won't be the problem.

At the very least, we try this and see how it goes, but if they don't get a good enough sampling from the non-guides, it will be a totally misleading number and probably put us even in worst shape unless they truely average the numbers out to compensate for the fact that guides will likely get into fish 2-4x more often than non-guides.

Bottom line, don't need to convince me, need to convince the 300k non-guides. I wish them luck.

BTW, I'm not sure if they gave you current license numbers, but I found data from 2007, about 330k (267k freshwater, and it said 600k licenses overall in BC).

Anyhow, yes, I hear ya and I will assist on my end (and have always turned in heads and told the creel guys the scoop FYI)...they need to convince the others (and I type this assuming they are reading!) - I hope they can!

Cooler heads...cooler heads!

 

[Lipripper]

Soooo they want catch info from guides???? Then they will fly over, do a boat count and then figure what was caught????

 

[Marsman]

It's coming over the next couple years or so that every angler will have his own Angling ID to keep. Soon we will be ask to enter it online which will avoid the huge returns of Licenses. Do you think it will work?

Cheers, Rob

 

[likwit]

geez, wolf is laying it out like it is and people still want to complain.

if you want to contribute to the cause as recommended by those people who are putting forth the effort to represent us sportfishermen then:

1. return your salmon heads
2. get a book and record your results

i agree that submitting licenses has some merit, but in some sense it's not much more useful then fly by's... it says nothing about the number of fish caught and released, other species, wild vs hatchery etc. so i can kind of see dfo's point.

it's easy to complain and find fault in plans, but its damn difficult to do things perfect.

 

[bananas]

They are not going to look at the guide data and say all fisherman are catching that much .there going to have our numbers and the average jo's number from creel survey will be seperate,and find common ground in between.If anything when they do there math on the average jo's they will know it's not rite because it doesn't jive with how much the guides are catching.

 

[Rum Buddies]

quote:Agree with Deewar25 100%

X2 - DFO has been using log books, paper and electronic for years, this isn't new - well maybe its new to sooke?

I understand that its a start of something, but lets be honest no average sporties are going to turn in books. I'd say 99% of sporties don't even know what an ET Fraser chinook is. I wish them luck trying to get joe bayliner to do anything.

Thanks to anybody working on a solution....

http://www.fishingvancouverisland.org

 

[cby]

Pretty simple Boys, Get a Data book Free of charge, Record your daily fishing trips (Like a diary), Drop off your hatchery heads at the depots all over the island and Submit your book at end of year. This will hopefully save us from a closure next year. PRETTY SIMPLE. If you can listen, write and drop off salmon heads then you've got what they need covered. Come on BC lets all do this and create change and make this fishery come back to life as we all know what it can be like. Pay it forward do your part and the fishing will return to glory. Stop complaining and get out there and record and make change.

Thanks Wolf for bringing this up and giving us an insight to the meeting. Its appreciated.

cby

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by Deewar25

Don't worry Roy, I totally understand your stance and realize it is what they have requested from the guides. I am just talking out loud as to what in my mind is an easier solution even if it doesn't get exactly what they need. In theory, yes, it sounds great, and the guides will help, but its still only a small 'sampling' by the best fishers of the sea - its biased. The only way to get true accuracy is to sample ALL fishers. If they mail us all books, great, but I'm just saying its much easier to get licenses out of joe-blow than it will be to get them to go pick up a book, document daily and send it in. I have no problem doing that for the 3 or 4 times annually I take my tin boat...done, fine, but I won't be the problem.

At the very least, we try this and see how it goes, but if they don't get a good enough sampling from the non-guides, it will be a totally misleading number and probably put us even in worst shape unless they truely average the numbers out to compensate for the fact that guides will likely get into fish 2-4x more often than non-guides.

Bottom line, don't need to convince me, need to convince the 300k non-guides. I wish them luck.

BTW, I'm not sure if they gave you current license numbers, but I found data from 2007, about 330k (267k freshwater, and it said 600k licenses overall in BC).

Anyhow, yes, I hear ya and I will assist on my end (and have always turned in heads and told the creel guys the scoop FYI)...they need to convince the others (and I type this assuming they are reading!) - I hope they can!

Cooler heads...cooler heads!

Well, I can get pretty close! Open to interoperation and a guess!

In 2009 PSA received $371,351.00 from DFO subtract the 262,800 $1.00 that it receives from DFO, it leaves $108,551.00. The only question left is how many commercials donated to PSF, TBSEF, or both? TBSEF received $ 28,605 at no more than $10.00 a pop that equates to 2,860.5 commercials? Welp, there were 8,505 commercial registered in 2004, with 2,157 (currently 2220) registered for salmon, which would have to pay the $10.00. Divide the $28,605 by 2,157 equals $13.26 fee per commercial, hmmm more commercials are donating to TBSEF than PSF? Yea, I can see that! But, 75% of the commercial money went to TBSEF, so subtract the $20,023 from the $28,605 leaves $8582 going to PSF from commercials. Take that $8,582 out of the remaining $108,551 equals $100,269 divided by the $4.00 SFB received, equals 25,067, added to the 262,800… there were approximately 287,867 licensed ‘salmon’ sport fishermen last year!

Bottom line, end-result, if they don’t get the information, they are going to ‘guess’ – and their guess, just like ours, is going to be HIGH… and this pretty much sums it up, “ITS not what they want can you hear me?????”

I guess at this point of time...Who, wants to send me the 'fricken book'?

 

[Cuba Libre]

quote:...this is all good - it's a start

OMG!! RVP and I agree!!!!!

20ft Alumaweld Intruder

 

[bananas]

Dork!

 

[wolf]

Thanks for your support guys and i see some of you are getting it.

Yes some guides are good fisherman but alot of you are as well!!!!! good enough to do it. and as guide we are probablly out numbered 10 -1 so your data is just as important dont you think???
How many guides do you think work in sooke maybe +-30 maybe a bit more 12 at sooke harbour, cheannuh maybe 8 Ss maybe 4 now. is this going to bite us in the A$$ who knows but the way its going now it cant get any worse, at least we can say we tried.

The thing is we have to fill it out and dont be lazy we got to keep on it, for years ive ben doing the same thing just my own style and after a bit you will find your own conclusions on how and when fish bite kinda fun accually.

Just think if we get lots of data for Chris and Tom what better way for the SFAB to go into a meeting with lots of ammo and fight for us??? personally whats it going to hurt????

Thank you Wolf


Blue Wolf Charters
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