halibut experimental fishery Q&A

[SpringFever2359]

experimental?...only in the sense that individuals can now purchase "Commercial" quota...correct?

we ALL know this New policy does not fix a thing...please do not purchase any...

but can someone in the know please answer this?...has this not been happening both ways in the past but on a larger scale?

I thought I read it on this(or another) site that the "commercial guys" have purchased "unused Rec quota" in the past, and that this money went into an account, only for the rec side to purchase back "unused Commercial quota" in later years?
now with no money "in the bank" to purchase a block of commercial quota,and going over on the 12% the sh$t has hit the fan...

if this is true,and I'm being sincere here, has the pecedent for a policy along this line not been set...yes/no?

the 88/12 split is still the prime concern yes?,or has a new road been paved for the future,and only a select few with $$$ that can pay the toll will get to drive it

 

[MILLERTIME]

Personally, I believe the comment about a boycott has more merit than most realize and might be closer to a solution! Who do you think really runs British Columbia commercial fisheries? It sure isn’t Shea or anyone in DFO! They really can’t do anything, without approval from all those commercial entities that are in place! If the sport sector agrees to this “ leasing program,” game over – YOU LOSE, just start thinking Area 2C!

Plus, DFO really don’t care! If you wait for a decision from them, start reading, you might start thinking of a resolve in the year 2017. I will also take any of those bets! Now on the other hand, I am quite sure Jim Pattison would HATE any and all negative publicity over any of this issue! Might want to forget letters to DFO in favor of Jim Pattison? I guarantee he carries more weight than Shea!

I would be putting “Customer Satisfaction is our #1 priority!” to the test! J

Great post as usual Charlie and I totally agree with you that our
efforts would be much better directed at Jim Pattison than DFO. A boycot of
everything to do with the Jim Pattison Group by over 100,000 sports fishermen along with their
friends and families will do more to solve this ripoff than all of
the letters and protestations to DFO and Federal Politians could ever do. We
should even think about taking it a step further and organize protests
infront of his stores with signs and handouts for the general
public. Just think what all that negative publicity on tha local news
could do. Chances are we would see our rightful quota returned to us
damn quick.

 

[Gunsmith]

Agreed! The only way to hurt the rich is deny them your money.

 

[fishingbc]

NOBODY S BUYING NOTHING....Hey stupid....post one name of a guide or a lodge that's buying any quota.....post it...contact info, the whole ball o wax.....your full of crap.....make some calls.....phone em all.....good luck......

Fair enough. Believe it or not there are more guides on the coast then just those of you that live and work in the lower part of the province. A good majority of the guides working out of the North are ex-commercial fishermen, some even own quota. So while the group in the south has been stomping their feet there are a few things happening in the background.

1) not all commercial fishers are a-holes(sorry holmes). there are some that are putting quota away at a reasonable price to be able to get it out to guides at a reasonable rate. Is this going to be an unllimited amount...probably not.

2) guides that understand how quotas work are building a business plan around it. Any guide with business sense knows roughly how many clients they are going to get this year. so lets just play out a simple scenario:

lets say a guide gets 60 days of bookings with 4 people per booking. 240 guests.
He increases his rates by say $30/head that is $7200.
$7200 / $4.75 = 1515 lbs of leased fish.

So if/when the regular season closes the guide carries on business with fish he has averaged out between his guests. So the guests at the end of the season are not taking a huge hit.

Again any guide worth his salt knows where the big fish are and where the small fish are. He can then target the smaller fish and therfore predict his season length or if a client wants a monster then perhaps he charges a bit of a royalty to that client.

At the end if there is remaining quota the guide/ lodge can lease it back to the commercial sector.

I believe at the Pitt Meadows meeting a lodge got up and said he gets 4500 clients. At a $20 increase per guest that is $90,000 that the lodge has to lease quota with. Thats almost 19000 lbs to spread around when the regular season closes.

And what is the outcome. The organizized lodge is going to be back in 2012,2013...... and those that are still stomping there feet may find themselves golfing or bird watching. And when the stocks do turn around who is going to be left standing?

 

[searun]

NOBODY S BUYING NOTHING....Hey stupid....post one name of a guide or a lodge that's buying any quota.....post it...contact info, the whole ball o wax.....your full of crap.....make some calls.....phone em all.....good luck......

Agreed 100% - we will bring this up at our Guide Association meeting - pretty sure the vote will be 100% for boycott - and I too challenge comfish4all to post names of guides/lodges participating....the whole thing is just him blowing smoke - he's just trolling and dreaming in Technicolor. Bring on the proof - put up or shut up.

 

[Tailspin]

A few Questions F4 All,

Why do you suspect that there are so many X commercials in Rupert switched to guiding?

How about enlightening us with a bit about your background? May help to see where your coming from. Or would you prefer to just shoot from the ditch.

Who the hell in their right mind, would go purchase Quota on a experimental side mouthed decision made on the opposite coast...

 

[profisher]

What I don't get in all this is why the government doesn't hold all the commercial quota and lease it out for a couple bucks a pound each year. Thereby collecting revenue for the Canadian owned resource. Just like the forest industry. Could you imagine how happy the forest companies would be if they had no stumpage fees and a new crop to harvest every year! I still can't grasp how the 435 guys got this quota given to them...I thought only Ralph Kline gave away free money.

 

[MILLERTIME]

If you are a mega billionaire like Jim Pattison with one of the largest fishing fleets and fish processing capabilities in the world it is not hard to lobby Ottawa for and obtain more quota at the expense of Joe Sporty. Google the Jim Pattison Group and take a look at his website all the info is there.
He is more than aware of this controversy but his rational is that it is just good business and in good business the little guy always gets screwed unless the little guys stand together and fight for what was stolen from them.

Many have suggested that we would do better directing our efforts
against him rather than the goverment and I would agree, I don't think
he would stand all the negative puplicity we could generate.

 

[Charlie]

Oh, you mean like a 100,000 or so anglers (his customers), standing out infront of his grocery stores and auto dealerships waving, yelling, and holding something like this?

Customer satisfaction is his #1 priority!

 

[Jencourt]

Funny,a few of us were talking about directing more of our effort at pattison a couple days ago. I was not sure at the time if it would be a good idea or not. I am starting to think it ma be a way to go.

Just a little side note on this for everyone.

In my effort to get the word out there and get more non fishers aware of it all I have been talking to anyone who will listen at every opportunity. As an example of how this dose get in peoples heads., it was our book keeper at work that came to me and started the conversation about targeting pattison. If she is thinking about it after a few lunch room conversations with me then I know others are too.

Cheers: Ray

 

[Little Hawk]

Homsey, this might not be such a bad angle to look at. Think about it for a sec. Beating DFO is like beating a 'dead horse', they don't listen and they obviously don't care; one look at the state of the entire Pacific fisheries confirms this. Placating First Nations, the commies (Jimmy) and the salmon-farmers are the top three 'DFO coffee-chat' topics in Ottawa.

Perhaps if some among us who are closer to Jimmy could reach out to him and win a little empathy for our cause, it might spill over back East. Use some honey first (some letters or phone calls from close rec-fisher acquaintances) to see if that gets any results; my suspicion is that because Jimmy often demonstrated that he can also be a benevolent individual - when the right PR opportunity arises - that he will help us somehow.

Anyone one of us on a 'first-name' basis with Jimmy?

Failing that, we could escalate from there

Pattison probably won't want to see HUGE FLEETS OF SPORT-FISHING TRAILER BOATS CLOGGING UP HIS GROCERY-STORE PARKING LOTS ON THE 6'OCLOCK NEWS, WOULD HE?

In our society it is everyone's right to get rich, yet few of those who do want to be painted as 'GREEDY!'

 

[juandesooka]

The ongoing rumour is that Pattison Group owns more than half of the halibut licenses, which means they basically control the resource. Has anyone actually verified this? Because if true, that's the real opponent. DFO is bureaucratic, they do whatever their bosses tell them to do, and their bosses do whatever their prime lobbyists tell them to do ... that's where the money and the power comes from. If Jimmy really is the owner of these halibut quotas, then there's little question he is pulling the gov'ts strings on what is to be done. Power and influence rule....and billionaires who own half the province have more than a little of both.

So, some kind of action may be warranted perhaps on this angle. Kind of like when conservationists are trying to stop logging ... do they target Min of Forests or the forest companies? The first is invisible bureaucrats who really are not decision makers, the other are out there trying to make a buck, and it doesn't help their PR when they are being slagged relentlessly in the media. Think Mac-Blo back in the 80s in Clayoquot....and where are they now? [I know it's not as simple as that, but for sure it didn't help their good name]

I have often thought that this problem goes away if some billionaire decides to make a magnanimous benevolent gesture....gifiting 2% or 3% of their gifted quota back to the rec sector and making this problem go away. A charitable donation to the people of Canada, a foundation in the companies name that is on the lips of every rec angler when their family cooks up those fish n chips. How's that for some positive spin and a great PR opportunity, for fish that might have stayed in the water anyway (if commercial quota not fully used up).

In the strategy of catching more flies with honey than vinegar, this would sure be a sweet deal if it worked. But back to reality, Jimmy didn't become a billionaire by giving money away. There'd have to be a pretty strong business case made for the PR benefit outweighing what he's giving up.

 

[Jencourt]

OK, So i agree fully that deep pockets make policy and control the thing.Lots of good things said juandesooka(in my opinion)
Where I do not agree at all in the idea that this goes away if we get 2-3% our way . Even 10% dose not correct the big problem.That is the problem of the style of fishery they are creating.The complete privatization of the resource.It dose not matter how much we have or don,t have if we continue to let things go the way they are fishing will only be left to those that have big money.Sport or commercial.I know the 12% is the fight we have chosen to get this started,but this thing is about way more than just that!! I am only a sport fisher and the guides and lodges have my full support in the effort to gain more of the Halibut TAC> I surely hope we non business sporties have the same support for the long haul.

 

[juandesooka]

Jencourt: I can certainly appreciate the sentiment, and being fully idealistic, it would be great if there was some kind of more fair sharing mechanism.

But stepping into the shoes of cynical practicality ... I think you've got to be realistic in your goal if you want to make a plan that can succeed. Every natural resource in Canada is owned by the Crown, then sold, leased, or given to whoever they see fit. Same if you're talking TFLs in the forest, mining claims, the right to dam a river for hydro, the right to put in a dock, or the right to fish lobster in Nova Scotia, it is all subject to the decision of government. I hate to say it, but there's really no such thing practically as a "right" to any resource.

This fight is not unlike a forest company who is given (leased, sold, or gifted) the right to log a valley, but the locals want to save the valley's trees for themselves to cut their own xmas trees, firewood, and lumber. The locals appeal either to the gov't to change their deal with the forest company (and likely have to buy them out) or make a deal with the forest company directly (either buy them out or appeal to them to donate it). What you are advocating is fighting for all forests to be made a common resource shared by everyone....that's a noble idea, but not too likely IMHO. So, my suggestion, focus on either the gov't or those holding the resource...set a reasonable goal, make a business case for it, and chase it down.

That business case can be political -- you will not get re-elected or you will lose your power base if you don't support us.
Or it be economic to gov't -- sport caught fish = $100/lb in spinoff benefits, while commercial = $50/lb (random guesses, don't hold me to these #s), so it makes most sense for our GDP to focus on rec over com.
Philanthropic arguments -- it would be the "nice" thing to do, favour benefit to many over benefit to the few -- don't really cut it in politics and business.
That's the angle with Jimmy possibly -- philanthropy in big business is one part doing good, but in another part is largely self-serving, because being seen to do good is also good for business.

Sorry to be so cynical. And that's a thread hijack if I've ever seen one!

 

[Cuba Libre]

Focus boys-- focus. Going after Pattison will get us nowhere. Its DFO and Shea that are the problem.

 

[Little Hawk]

And where has that gotten' us so far, Cuba?

 

[Derby]

Focus boys-- focus. Going after Pattison will get us nowhere. Its DFO and Shea that are the problem.

And where has that gotten' us so far, Cuba?

Cuba is right Guys "Eye on the prize" Just because you haven't heard anything the last little bit, doesn't mean that there isn't - lots is still going on- Keep the pressure on Shea and DFO don't back off them

 

[Charlie]

Homsey, this might not be such a bad angle to look at. Think about it for a sec. Beating DFO is like beating a 'dead horse', they don't listen and they obviously don't care; one look at the state of the entire Pacific fisheries confirms this. Placating First Nations, the commies (Jimmy) and the salmon-farmers are the top three 'DFO coffee-chat' topics in Ottawa.

Perhaps if some among us who are closer to Jimmy could reach out to him and win a little empathy for our cause, it might spill over back East. Use some honey first (some letters or phone calls from close rec-fisher acquaintances) to see if that gets any results; my suspicion is that because Jimmy often demonstrated that he can also be a benevolent individual - when the right PR opportunity arises - that he will help us somehow.

Anyone one of us on a 'first-name' basis with Jimmy?

Failing that, we could escalate from there

Pattison probably won't want to see HUGE FLEETS OF SPORT-FISHING TRAILER BOATS CLOGGING UP HIS GROCERY-STORE PARKING LOTS ON THE 6'OCLOCK NEWS, WOULD HE?

In our society it is everyone's right to get rich, yet few of those who do want to be painted as 'GREEDY!'

I don't thing there is anything in that/your post that I would dissagree with!

 

[Duffer]

I think you guys have something here that might get peoples attention... there might be a day we all need to go shopping together..

 

[bcboy]

I personally think that if we are against big business getting rich off of a canadian resourse, one that belongs to all canadians, we as recreational fishermen should be equally concerned about companys like the OAK BAY MARINE GROUP, don't think for a second that companys like this wouldn't love to catch every single recreational halibut in canada with with their rich american clients. Don't think for a second that these guys are out for the best interests of all canadian anglers. They are the wolf in sheeps clothing. As a recreational angler I am opposed to the rec sector getting any more allocation untill we get these guys under control and on a very tight leash.