H1N1 Vaccine?

[Peahead]

quote:Originally posted by Pippen

quote:Originally posted by kelly

Agree its blown out of proportion although it is a nasty strain. Its just a flu strain with a household name. If they reported every flu death alot more people would be freaking out. I just got the shot because it was given to me.

Definitely is blown out of the water. Funny how the media takes things and runs with it; some time back not sure if it was Health Canada or it's equivalent in the states but they said that it should not be referred to as Swine Flu. That lasted about 2 weeks and now it varies depending on what news you are watching/reading as to what it will be called. "Swine" has a dirtier association with it and likely makes better news.

I am being "given" the shot for work as well....hence why I am getting it. Although it is "flu season" I sure am hearing about a lot more people who are getting pretty sick this year; not necessarily H1N1 but lots of 'fluey' people laid up in bed.

I understand that up until now any flu one had was highly likely to be H1N1 because we haven't yet hit the 'usual' flu season yet.

Here is a very good interview (on CKNW from this morning ) with DR. TIMOTHY BREWER, DIRECTOR, GLOBAL HEALTH PROGRAMS, MCGILL UNIVERSITY MEDICAL SCHOOL
8:35 – 9:00
He very easy to understand and answers some great facts on H1N1 .
- select Oct 28th from 8 am on the audiovault.

http://www.cknw.com/other/audiovault.html

 

[Pippen]

On a serious note.....I am mixed on the vaccine. Yes.....it is a new flu strain......will it kill as many people this year as the “common flu” does on annual basis in North America? That remains to be seen. There is NO doubt in mind there is a LOT of media hype in this as they have jumped all over it; almost like they first reported it back in the spring and had their stopwatches on to start the media circus as soon as flu season is upon us.(the talk in the spring was "wait til flu season") I generally get a flu shot every year as I am in hospitals so much for work and there are so many “sickies” around. I am not too worried about adverse effects from this one as I have had flu shots in the past. But some of this was brought up which was an interesting read.

Read this....NOT all of it but pay particular attention to page 2, page 5 "Dosage and Administration" and page 19 "Incompatibilities" http://www.gsk.ca/english/docs-pdf/A..._CAPA01v01.pdf

The fact that GSK has made immunity from prosecution a condition of sale has me 'wondering' a bit. Whoever gets this shot is basically involved in a “clinical trial” of sorts.

 

[cliffjumper]

Pippen, if I'm not totally a moron, which is not beyond the realm of possibility, most if not all medical procedures are an evolving clinical trial, each subject to "Whoopsie, How 'bout that?!"

And, lest I forget, bugs are on many menus in fine eating establishments around the globe, as are live octopus tentacles with sucker att'd, snakes including those which dispense toxins in copious quantity, cats, rats and other creatures we might shudder to think of. Then, of course, let's not forget those wild & crazy buckaroos on the prairies of Canada and the USA who enjoy a particularly fine meal of uncommon delicacy after branding & calving... Well, then there's those slimey chunks of snot that ooze from hard, stoney shells which, as their dinner, filter all manner of organic material from our salt water... and many consider libido-enhancing.

Really, a microscopic bit of mercury and a few chemicals, compared to those?...

Way too many people been raised with over-protective parents in the big city.

Cheers!

I'm in line tomorrow.

 

[Pippen]

quote:Originally posted by cliffjumper
]
Pippen, if I'm not totally a moron, which is not beyond the realm of possibility, most if not all medical procedures are an evolving clinical trial, each subject to "Whoopsie, How 'bout that?!"

Well yes and no. For a "drug" of any kind to become approved by Health Canada you DO have to provide clinical studies to show it's efficacy, side effects, make up etc etc. Health Canada IS much slower than the FDA in the US at bringing products to market. 99% of physicians will ask to take a look at this data as well before prescribing. Now I haven't worked specifically in drug sales for a while and am more on the equipment side now but that is essentially how it goes. Essentially with this vaccine it HAS been pushed to market without clinical testing of any sort. "Yes".....drugs do make it out to the 'real world' and end up showing adverse effects including in some cases death. Hence....BIG law suits against the drug companies and MASSIVE recalls.

quote:

And, lest I forget, bugs are on many menus in fine eating establishments around the globe, as are live octopus tentacles with sucker att'd, snakes including those which dispense toxins in copious quantity, cats, rats and other creatures we might shudder to think of. Then, of course, let's not forget those wild & crazy buckaroos on the prairies of Canada and the USA who enjoy a particularly fine meal of uncommon delicacy after branding & calving... Well, then there's those slimey chunks of snot that ooze from hard, stoney shells which, as their dinner, filter all manner of organic material from our salt water... and many consider libido-enhancing.

Absolutely agreed!! As I said earlier....I encourage everyone to do some research both in Canada and US to see what "is" and "can" be found in every day tap water.

Every ride a bike quickly and swallow a bug or a fly? There is COUNTLESS cases.....ever play the '5 second rule' when you drop food aside from in your home??

quote:Really, a microscopic bit of mercury and a few chemicals, compared to those?...

ABSOLUTELY!! There is roughly the same amount of mercury in a can of tuna as there is in a shot of the H1N1 vaccine.

quote:Way too many people been raised with over-protective parents in the big city.

Cheers!

I'm in line tomorrow.

Agreed....we as a society are far too paranoid and worried about too many things. I remember growing up in the Peg....there was rumour of an attempted abduction near my school. Guess who was still walking to school from the day after right through til graduating high school. No long processions of cars having to drop off the kids at school.

 

[SerengetiGuide]

After listening to a well known doctor on the radio, it seems that H1N1 is no more lethal than regular flu, but it is much much more transmissable. Therefore there will be more deaths just due to the fact that millions more people will be infected. With that being said, the only way to stop the transmission extremely effectively is to get the flu shot so that less people get infected and you do not pass the disease on to those who may or could die from it.

www.serengetifishingcharters.com

*NEW VIDEO*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlEzuNC59ck

 

[juandesooka]

I'm a solid vote yes. But then again, I get annual flu shots.

I have had real flu a couple of times as an adult. When I say "real" I mean not the little sniffles that some people call flu, but the 3 or 4 days wracked with fever, sweating, shaking, puking, the whole 11 yards. After the 4th day with no food, sweating out all your liquids, and exhausted from not being able to sleep, you get a sense of how people die from the flu....3 or 4 more days of that, and the strongest people would be in trouble. I lost 15 pounds in 4 days, and I didn't have extra weight to lose.

Ever since then, $20 per year seems a small price to pay...when I was sick, I probably would have paid $500 if I could have made it stop a day earlier.

As far as all the crap in the shot, I'm not overly concerned. Who here doesn't eat fast food, processed food, drink booze, take headache medicine, cold medicine, antibiotics for infection, etc etc etc. We pollute our bodies endlessly in multiple ways....do a chemical analysis of what's in that big mac you ate for lunch, see what chemicals are in there. Or those teen years where the only complaint you had about ingesting toxic contaminants was not being able to afford to buy more...[)] Heck, for a fishing forum, let's see what's in that fish we all love to eat.

For me, no question, potential benefit FAR outweighs the costs. And that goes for my kids too.

 

[bacKlash]

educate before you vaccinate.take the time to learn about "adjuvanted" vaccines(squalene) preservatives(thimerasol/mercury) antigens(dead,attenuated,live)and while you're at it check out the carnage from the 1976 swine flu vaccine that crippled hundreds with 'Guillain Barre Syndrome' - do your homework !!

 

[SerengetiGuide]

As for the gullain barre syndrome, the vaccine increased the the chances of getting it from 1 in 100,000 to 2 in 100,000....not all that much.

www.serengetifishingcharters.com

*NEW VIDEO*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlEzuNC59ck

 

[juandesooka]

GBS crippled hundreds for sure....but saved how many millions from pain and how many thousands or tens of thousands from death?

A friend of mine got GBS from a flu shot...no picnic for sure, though he's ok now.

On the other hand, I saw a dad on TV crying last night because of his son just killed by H1N1.

So...like most things in life, there's pros and cons, arguments either way, you can pretty easily give stats and stories of the extremes on both sides.

So...action or inaction? "Is it better to regret something you have done, then something you haven't?"

But I am firmly in the pro-vaccination camp in general. Sooke and the South Island generally has had a resurgence of avoidable childhood diseases like Whooping Cough, because of anti-immunization people. Yeah, they have a right to choose for their kid, but there's a social contract too -- their not choosing to do this increases the risk to my kids. And don't tell me your kid has been "immunized" by Wort of Whatever plus steam baths and vigorous massage ... sorry but thinking happy thoughts about "the secret" will not avoid polio or cure rubella.

But I digress! I know these are quite a bit different than flu shots....but some principles are similar.

 

[Pippen]

quote:Originally posted by bacKlash

educate before you vaccinate.take the time to learn about "adjuvanted" vaccines(squalene) preservatives(thimerasol/mercury) antigens(dead,attenuated,live)and while you're at it check out the carnage from the 1976 swine flu vaccine that crippled hundreds with 'Guillain Barre Syndrome' - do your homework !!

Backlash....maybe you need to educate yourself? Ever eat a can of tuna or sushi? You are injesting just as much mercury on average as in ONE H1N1 flu shot. Thimerasol is not a "brand new" preservative used in the pharmaceutical industry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal

Squalene....don't buy into the "Gulf War" stuff.

http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/topics/adjuvants/squalene/questions_and_answers/en/

Right from the World Health Organization...

Over 22 million doses of squalene-containing flu vaccine have been administered. The absence of significant vaccine-related adverse events following this number of doses suggests that squalene in vaccines has no significant risk. This vaccine has been given primarily to older age groups.

Antigens?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigen

Question for you backlash....do you understand "how" a vaccine works?

 

[Pippen]

quote:Originally posted by juandesooka

So...like most things in life, there's pros and cons, arguments either way, you can pretty easily give stats and stories of the extremes on both sides.

So...action or inaction? "Is it better to regret something you have done, then something you haven't?"

Well said JDS.

 

[Pippen]

Here is some little self preventative practices you can make part of a routine during the flu season.


1. Frequent hand-washing (well highlighted in all official communications).

2. "Hands-off-the-face" approach. Resist all temptations to touch any
part of face except to wash.

3. *Gargle twice a day with warm salt water (use Listerine if you don't
trust salt). H1N1 takes 2-3 days after initial infection in the throat/ nasal
cavity to proliferate and show characteristic symptoms. Simple gargling
prevents proliferation. In a way, gargling with salt water has the same
effect on a healthy individual that Tamiflu has on an infected one.
Don't underestimate this simple, inexpensive and powerful preventative
method.

4. Similar to 3 above, *clean your nostrils at least once every day with
warm salt water;*blowing the nose hard once a day and swabbing both nostrils with cotton buds dipped
in warm salt water is very effective in bringing down viral population.*

5. *Boost your natural immunity with foods that are rich in Vitamin C. *If you have to supplement with Vitamin C
tablets, make sure that it also has Zinc to boost absorption.

6. *Drink as much of warm liquids (tea, coffee, etc) as you can. *Drinking
warm liquids has the same effect as gargling, but in the reverse
direction. They wash off proliferating viruses from the throat into
the stomach where they cannot survive, proliferate or do any harm.

 

[Deewar25]

pippen - difference with thimerasol is that it is getting injected straight into your bloodstream and lingers way longer whereas what we consume in tuna is injested and mostly just flushed right out the other end. This fact is left out of the health rebuttals.

I've looked long and hard into this...really I'm still on the fence and it isn't so much about the contents, but the lack of trials. I have a real hard time giving my children a vaccine that had not been tested ONCE for a child that age, and only tested in a short trial of 135 people overall (the adjuvant alone HAS had larger trials, but not combined with the H1N1). All prior flu vaccines I assume have long history and proper trials - none of this rushed out crap. THAT is my problem with this whole thing for something that so far hasn't proven worse than the 2003 flu that killed 158 kids in the US and I don't even recall a single mention about it. Tamiflu, no problem...unproven concoction...tough sell. I guess after a month or two when our turn would come up, if I haven't heard of any serious consequence and generally people haven't contracted it that received the vaccine, I would likely consider assuming the numbers sick/dieing keep going up.

Pretty easy gig for GSK seeing that the government has waived them from all legal liability incase we are harmed....

 

[cliffjumper]

Hey Pippen, the Peg's brutal but beautiful in the Winter. Do you remember, every winter some kids would die from encephalitis around the SE corner by Emerson? And one of my best grade school buddies, and my dad's secretary were both afflicted by polio, wheelchair-bound for life. My home was Boissevain.

Now they have medical treatments and vaccinations to eliminate or minimize those tragic diseases.

A last thought for those thinking these injections are lethal poison. There's always someone who will be negatively affected by something. Some folks cannot be exposed to the sunlight.

As saltwater anglers... think about this... How many women take birth control pills?.. Where does their used-water end-up? How many of you tie knots in fishing line? Were your hands ever wet when they touched your lips?.. What's your cup-size today?

After thousands of knots tied, mine is non-existent.

I'm still in line.

Cheers!

 

[cuttlefish]

How ya doin' Kelly? Haven't heard from you for a while.
Got my flu shots today. Ya hat's right two at the same time. If you don't hear from me again, then you'll know.

 

[Charter Tofino]

Im alive.It made most people a bit sick with mild flu like symptoms for 24 hours.I got aches and night sweats.It also gave a wicked sore arm for 2 days, which a needle has never done to me. Still likely worth it.

 

[twinwinds]

I got mine yesterday....Didn't bother me at all other than a sore arm this morning.....

 

[Charter Tofino]

Jesus anyone see the s%*& storm on the news from the flamers getting their shots last week?

 

[Clipper]

I think the hysteria that continues to grow around this is what causes me the most concern, not the flu itself. We get flu's every year and some are bad and people die but I don't think I've ever seen this level of public panic before.

Get the shot or don't but fer Pete's sake quit carrying on like it's the end of the world!

 

[juandesooka]

I don't think the issue is that is a particularly severe flu, but how virulent it is. It is spreading like wildfire in my kid's school. [my daughter has something resembling it, and I'm under the weather too...[V]]

I heard some talk that the real concern isn't even this particular flu, but the truly scary thing it might mutate into next year. This virus is adaptable, jumped from animals, and will adapt to us too...becoming more "effective". So I think a part of the inoculation goal is to stem the tide, keep it from running rampant, and slow down its mutation.

The whole flu thing is scary...how an uncomfortable seasonal illness, basically just a more severe cold, can suddenly become something that kills millions of people worldwide. And then just as suddenly disappears. With very little we can do about it.

re: panic. The media is about selling papers and airtime, and nothing sells like fear. The fear of an invisible killer all around us, with little that our modern technology can do about it, and our limited control of the natural world, is about as scary as it gets these days. [xx(]