Fraser Sockeye 2016 R.I.P.
- Thread starter High Time
- Start date
fishin_magician
Well-Known Member
sad is one way of looking at it. Saw a link on another website of how many fish the Natives have harvested this year and how many fish have been harvested for so called scientific reasons. What a joke. What the Natives have called "rights" and "food fish" is nothing other than "greed" and "commercial enterprising" renamed a "right" in a race based fishery enshrined in the constitution.
Hearing freshwater lodge owners bellyache over economics and all the freshwater folks complain about Sockeye is making me sick. I've had enough. I'm glad the run is poor...actually, because at least this way no one gets any.... And if there are no Fraser Sockeye to fish in my lifetime except for once every 4 years I'm more than fine with that. Salmon are survivors....and they'll be here long after I'm gone when the world finally wakes up to the error of it's ways.
I'm also sick and tired of the Freshwater and Natives holier than thou attitudes as well. As far as I'm concerned they can stick it. Us saltwater folks don't whine like a bunch of spoiled cats.
Hearing freshwater lodge owners bellyache over economics and all the freshwater folks complain about Sockeye is making me sick. I've had enough. I'm glad the run is poor...actually, because at least this way no one gets any.... And if there are no Fraser Sockeye to fish in my lifetime except for once every 4 years I'm more than fine with that. Salmon are survivors....and they'll be here long after I'm gone when the world finally wakes up to the error of it's ways.
I'm also sick and tired of the Freshwater and Natives holier than thou attitudes as well. As far as I'm concerned they can stick it. Us saltwater folks don't whine like a bunch of spoiled cats.
High Time
Crew Member
The sockeye runs on the Fraser for the last 20 years have been on a downward spiral. Since DFO and their political masters in Ottawa in the early 1990's decided to a 400% increase of the amount of "FOOD" fish to the natives, and allowed an unrestricted expansion of salmon farms on the out migration route through Johnstone Straits of Fraser sockeye, the returns have been on a downward path. Historically the Salmon Commission records showed an average rate of return of 5:1 for every sockeye put on the spawning grounds. ie a million spawners produced a five million return. Since the mid 90's that ratio has been reducing and I believe that the return this year is less than the escapement! There have been several years now that the commercial fleet and the sports fleet have had no fishery in order to try and put adequate fish on the spawning grounds. Smolts have been out migrating but the adults are not returning. The Adams River cycle has fared better likely because they migrate up the river later when the temperatures are lower and are more successful spawners. The last return in 2014 was 20% lower than the previous cycle. I pray that they do not follow the same path as the other 3 cycles. I suspect that the fish now have a virus courtesy of the salmon farms that is reducing their ability to out migrate to sea and return as adults. Time will tell. Hope I'm wrong. Probably too late to do anything about it. Hence the so sad...
Aces
Well-Known Member
THANK YOU for saying what i am thinking. Sockeye salmon seems to breed greed and intolerance in many sectors of our population.
I am also sick and tired of race biased commercial fisheries. We have several "first nation" people long lining the **** out of the Halibut in our area and trolling the banks licking up the Chinooks and wild Cohos while the White Man sits at the dock.
....end rant
island idiots
Active Member
Pretty horrible report. At this point I don't think pointing fingers is going to save the fish. I'm just an idiot on an island, but
it seems to me that the answer is No Fishing on the river.
All fish should be left alone to spawn with numbers like this. There is no country for fishing for commercial or ceremonial, or for food, when
the fish are in such low numbers.
I guess that will happen when there are none left. How sad.
it seems to me that the answer is No Fishing on the river.
All fish should be left alone to spawn with numbers like this. There is no country for fishing for commercial or ceremonial, or for food, when
the fish are in such low numbers.
I guess that will happen when there are none left. How sad.
Gear'n'beer!
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately when there is no more Fraser sockeye FN will move to have rec sector unable to keep chinooks.....or a rediculous slot.
We have already had a taste of that this year.......wait for it
GnB
We have already had a taste of that this year.......wait for it
GnB
UkeeDreamin
Well-Known Member
Hmmm, salt anglers don't whine like spoiled cats … FM doesn't spend much time on the pages of this forum, obviously. We're talking about a complete closure for targeting species other than sockeye for a number of fisheries because of the chance of catch and release by catch. Last time I checked, sockeye are caught occasionally in the salt rec fishery even when Chinook are being targeted … so you're telling me no one is going to complain if DFO applies their restrictions unbiasedly and closes all salt chuck fisheries that have even the remotest chance at hooking a sockeye? Yeah, I don't think so.
Lets also not forget that this is the same Department that kept the sockeye slaughter for all three sectors open well into the migration timing of the Thompson Steelhead and Interior Coho in 2014, a timing that is mandated as zone closures to protect these endangered species. Tell me where the consistency of decision making is - 2014 we get indiscriminate seine, gill and snagging fisheries left open when endangered species are present yet now when sockeye runs are low, but far from the endangered levels of the Thomp coho and steelhead stocks, all non-related fisheries are closed, even those with selective methods and near zero by-catch? BS!!!!
Now, if the greedy rec fishers in the lower Fraser can't stop bottom bouncing snagging for chinook when weak sockeye stocks are present I agree 100% - shut them down. But, in the tidal fraser there are no snagging bars and the plunking bar fishery doesn't touch any sockeye. Same goes for the chinook fishery in the Lower Thompson - its a bait under float fishery that doesn't touch sockeye, why is it closed? I've fished The Lower T for the last decade and never seen a sockeye touched, but its closed. I can't say the same when I fish the Discovery Islands for Chinook in late July or August, I can pretty much guarantee I'll get a few sox as by catch.
Inept or unethical - any way you slice it DFO fisheries management is a joke!
Cheers!
Ukee
Lets also not forget that this is the same Department that kept the sockeye slaughter for all three sectors open well into the migration timing of the Thompson Steelhead and Interior Coho in 2014, a timing that is mandated as zone closures to protect these endangered species. Tell me where the consistency of decision making is - 2014 we get indiscriminate seine, gill and snagging fisheries left open when endangered species are present yet now when sockeye runs are low, but far from the endangered levels of the Thomp coho and steelhead stocks, all non-related fisheries are closed, even those with selective methods and near zero by-catch? BS!!!!
Now, if the greedy rec fishers in the lower Fraser can't stop bottom bouncing snagging for chinook when weak sockeye stocks are present I agree 100% - shut them down. But, in the tidal fraser there are no snagging bars and the plunking bar fishery doesn't touch any sockeye. Same goes for the chinook fishery in the Lower Thompson - its a bait under float fishery that doesn't touch sockeye, why is it closed? I've fished The Lower T for the last decade and never seen a sockeye touched, but its closed. I can't say the same when I fish the Discovery Islands for Chinook in late July or August, I can pretty much guarantee I'll get a few sox as by catch.
Inept or unethical - any way you slice it DFO fisheries management is a joke!
Cheers!
Ukee
fishin_magician
Well-Known Member
Come and check out the tens of thousands of anglers who get on the rivers on a given day when it's open and you'll know exactly why the whole thing is shut down. Also check how a certain group's catch is under-reported...a source who will remain nameless in two organizations tell me.
I'll take whatever regs DFO give me, and I'll abide by them and if they're not acceptable to me and my fishing exploits, I'll go elsewhere to another area and wet some lines. I also won't complain about it because fishing is a priviledge and not a right and most saltwater anglers understand this.
Lol.....10 of thousands of anglers...funny when people talk about things they have never seen. Make the Fraser sport fishing set line only and problem solved with sockeye interception, even though we do get quite a few on the bar rods. No different than the sockeye interception at the mouth of the Fraser right now. We got some nice socks on chovies a few days ago in the slop off t10.
Agreed on the unreported FN netting numbers. There was vehicles in Fraser canyon today at some key set net areas past Yale.
Pretty awesome talking to some mid Fraser FN today who were using traditional methods for Chinook and the hate they have for lower Fraser FN who are slaughtering stocks to extinction to sell and not even for there own food fish. Big storm brewing amongst the bands that don't use boats and gill nets against the FN below Yale to the mouth.Hopefully some of this comes to light soon....
Agreed on the unreported FN netting numbers. There was vehicles in Fraser canyon today at some key set net areas past Yale.
Pretty awesome talking to some mid Fraser FN today who were using traditional methods for Chinook and the hate they have for lower Fraser FN who are slaughtering stocks to extinction to sell and not even for there own food fish. Big storm brewing amongst the bands that don't use boats and gill nets against the FN below Yale to the mouth.Hopefully some of this comes to light soon....
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I believe non aboriginals have just as much "rights" to the fish as First Nations. This is my country as much as theirs. I'm not fussed if that's not the PC take on it. Ceremonial purposes my butt. It's an income and also a big middle finger to everyone.
In saying that, shut the river down/tighten up for EVERYONE for a few years. Give the fish a chance to rebound.
In saying that, shut the river down/tighten up for EVERYONE for a few years. Give the fish a chance to rebound.
fishin_magician
Well-Known Member
So, in a given week in August then how many different anglers fish the Fraser by boat, bar, shore, guide, or other? Be honest now. I have seen 10000 people on the Fraser many times from the mouth to Hope. Easy.
Sockeye interception off the mouth of the Fraser today in the saltchuck was probably less than 6 if not zero and that includes the derby boats. If there was not a derby it would have been a ghost town.
So you're calling DFO and the PSC decision makers all a bunch of clowns for making a conservation decision? Sounds like a whining cat to me. If they close the mouth of the Fraser because they deem it to be a sockeye conservation issue, there will be a little bit of whimpering, but we'll take our lumps but we won't be whining....we'll gladly intercept Chinook away from the closure.
Pretty sure they will reopen the second week of September anyways... If not after labour day.
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UkeeDreamin
Well-Known Member
Don't let facts get in your way FM!
Agreed with you about the tidal lower fraser snag fishery but closure of the other fisheries and areas that have less impact on sox than trolling the chuck does make DFO a bunch of clowns (sorry PSC has no decision making powers). Also, if you took the time to read my post I blew the conservation decision BS out of the water. If DFO gave a rats butt about conservation the 2014 sockeye slaughter wouldn't have been extended into the Thompson steelhead and coho timing - those are endangered stocks are at critically low levels. This is political - i.e. if FN sox fishing is shutdown they have to whack someone else's fishery, whether there's a real risk to sox or not and about prioritizing the money fish, not the endangered fish.
Cheers!
Ukee
Agreed with you about the tidal lower fraser snag fishery but closure of the other fisheries and areas that have less impact on sox than trolling the chuck does make DFO a bunch of clowns (sorry PSC has no decision making powers). Also, if you took the time to read my post I blew the conservation decision BS out of the water. If DFO gave a rats butt about conservation the 2014 sockeye slaughter wouldn't have been extended into the Thompson steelhead and coho timing - those are endangered stocks are at critically low levels. This is political - i.e. if FN sox fishing is shutdown they have to whack someone else's fishery, whether there's a real risk to sox or not and about prioritizing the money fish, not the endangered fish.
Cheers!
Ukee
It may be legally necessary to shut down sporties if the FN fishery is being suspended. At the end of the day if this gets enough sockeye back on the spawning grounds it buys us another four years to clean up our act in terms of making sure the young ones actually survive to return as adults.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
At end of day the biggest thing that needs to change is DFO management of these fish. Improve the spawning grounds, manage it properly, and put back the habitat protections for the Fraser river.
What use are fish coming back if industry can do what it wants? So many issues with water quality on Fraser look at the entrance in mainland, and along the tributaries. Yes maybe climate change is responsible but I am noticing in papers that we are jumping to conclusions already. We cant let DFO hand this well its climate change and do nothing. Hopefully this low run will be warning. If DFO wont budge than maybe FN will force it legally. It is also up to municipalities. If you see issues with a stream or creek in your area you need to push your local governments to get your message across these fish need to be protected. I am not 100% sold is entirely climate change. That is the easy way out for DFO.
What use are fish coming back if industry can do what it wants? So many issues with water quality on Fraser look at the entrance in mainland, and along the tributaries. Yes maybe climate change is responsible but I am noticing in papers that we are jumping to conclusions already. We cant let DFO hand this well its climate change and do nothing. Hopefully this low run will be warning. If DFO wont budge than maybe FN will force it legally. It is also up to municipalities. If you see issues with a stream or creek in your area you need to push your local governments to get your message across these fish need to be protected. I am not 100% sold is entirely climate change. That is the easy way out for DFO.
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its sad to see, DFO has more cuts for next year as well as management issues. people that retire are not being replaced. the positions are buried..... more savings. you can thank Harpers " WE WONT RAISE HOUSEHOLD TAXES". They took there money from voiceless minorities like sport fishing. its going to get worse as harper has contracts with user groups for food fisheries.
Gong Show
Well-Known Member
This goes beyond political parties, bones.
The Liberals did the most damage in removing the fish managers from the coastal areas and putting them in Ottawa.
Politicians and bureaucrats learned in the '90's that there is no price to pay, politically, for cutting and politicizing DFO.
The Liberals did the most damage in removing the fish managers from the coastal areas and putting them in Ottawa.
Politicians and bureaucrats learned in the '90's that there is no price to pay, politically, for cutting and politicizing DFO.
your right but money makes the world go round round round. and when they keep cutting the DFO budget again and again. the hatcheries that supplement the inventory cut back on production. then inventories fall and here we are. no coho or chinook, puts more pressure on sockeye. and we are blaming everything for salmon inventories, seals, global warming, farms, warm blobs....etc. the ground level improvement to the system has been lost or cut back. one hatchery in the states has a bigger budget then all hatcheries in our region. if we keep taking fish out of the bucket and not putting them back in then doesn't the bucket become empty?
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