scott craven
Well-Known Member
Too light, there are some 12-18 lb winters out there in peak season which will pop that line especially if using a flasher.
Suggest 15lb test min.
Suggest 15lb test min.
Fly reels suitable for downrigger use
- Thread starter jimbob
- Start date
highlights
Active Member
10lb is a little on the light side. I would have opted for Maxima since the rating they use is a little on the low side. Meaning Maxima line is always around two punds heavier then they lable it as.
12lb- 15lb is what I would have spooled them with for winters. Often you are fishing very deep and debris is almost always picked up. The heavier line just gives more durability over the long haul.
On another note I would have also gone with more backing. No real need for 300 yards of mono on that small reel. You want the least amount of mono on that reel so that the spool does not get blown out.
I am sure you will be fine though. No need to change it now that it's been already done. Use it for a season and check it for next year.
HL
12lb- 15lb is what I would have spooled them with for winters. Often you are fishing very deep and debris is almost always picked up. The heavier line just gives more durability over the long haul.
On another note I would have also gone with more backing. No real need for 300 yards of mono on that small reel. You want the least amount of mono on that reel so that the spool does not get blown out.
I am sure you will be fine though. No need to change it now that it's been already done. Use it for a season and check it for next year.
HL
C
cliffjumper
Guest
SeaRanger, I'm not suggesting you go back to spinning reels, but generally, trolling with spinning reels you want to use lures and speeds that make imarted-spin minimal.
Keel trolling weights and gangtrolls with the front keel weighted down will eliminate lure-imparted twist even if you're spinning an anchovie or plastic as your lure/bait. Some gang-trolls have the front keel, but no hole for clipping a weight, so I drill a hole in that keel.
Another is trolling spoons or flashers so fast they spin rather than wobble & dodge side-to-side, which is their intended action. Change your flasher to a dodger and slow a bit, especially in the winter.
You can take the hook off a favourite salmon spoon, tie on a leader & hook&bait, troll fast enough to get the side-to-side wobble and you've got fish. I like the Coyote green/glow and K-1 silver. I've gang-linked four Cleos & they worked a charm. For those, I tied a dropper from the fron swivel-eye and weighted the dropper to stay twist-free.
Jigging is a big twist problem, especially jigging small buzzbombs or spoons. But if you're doing a dropshot-style hook above weight jigging, use 3/16 pencil lead as your bottom weight, tie a granny knot at the terminal line end, crimp the bottom of the lead so it won't slide past the knot, bend it in a slight 'L', and as you drift a bit, it stays twist-free.
And, trolling flies in the top 4' is no problem if you tie the fly to 3'-4' flourocarbon, swivel to mainline, dropper on the front (mainline) swivel-eye put a couple BB-shot on the dropper
So, with spinning reels, you have to get outside the box to make them work well for trolling most hardware & baits.
As far as 10# mono, unless it's IGFA-rated, it ought to have a wet-break knot-strength not less than the stated test. Most approach 50%-100% higher as some folks don't tie the greatest knots... improved clinch = 70% wet knot strength... That means the wet-knot line test has to be almost 50% higher than dry test. (10# x 70% = 7#... 3#/7#= 43% increase. True dry test must be 14.3#, but is sold as 10# due to wet knot strength.
If you were worried only about fish breaking the line, that's up to how you handle your drag. It's those danged weeds that mess the equation, as those are a dead-pull. And, whether you stop the boat.
All-round, I'd prefer 15#+ wet knot strength, but I know some flygear bucktailers who love 8# as their tippets.
Cheers!
Keel trolling weights and gangtrolls with the front keel weighted down will eliminate lure-imparted twist even if you're spinning an anchovie or plastic as your lure/bait. Some gang-trolls have the front keel, but no hole for clipping a weight, so I drill a hole in that keel.
Another is trolling spoons or flashers so fast they spin rather than wobble & dodge side-to-side, which is their intended action. Change your flasher to a dodger and slow a bit, especially in the winter.
You can take the hook off a favourite salmon spoon, tie on a leader & hook&bait, troll fast enough to get the side-to-side wobble and you've got fish. I like the Coyote green/glow and K-1 silver. I've gang-linked four Cleos & they worked a charm. For those, I tied a dropper from the fron swivel-eye and weighted the dropper to stay twist-free.
Jigging is a big twist problem, especially jigging small buzzbombs or spoons. But if you're doing a dropshot-style hook above weight jigging, use 3/16 pencil lead as your bottom weight, tie a granny knot at the terminal line end, crimp the bottom of the lead so it won't slide past the knot, bend it in a slight 'L', and as you drift a bit, it stays twist-free.
And, trolling flies in the top 4' is no problem if you tie the fly to 3'-4' flourocarbon, swivel to mainline, dropper on the front (mainline) swivel-eye put a couple BB-shot on the dropper
So, with spinning reels, you have to get outside the box to make them work well for trolling most hardware & baits.
As far as 10# mono, unless it's IGFA-rated, it ought to have a wet-break knot-strength not less than the stated test. Most approach 50%-100% higher as some folks don't tie the greatest knots... improved clinch = 70% wet knot strength... That means the wet-knot line test has to be almost 50% higher than dry test. (10# x 70% = 7#... 3#/7#= 43% increase. True dry test must be 14.3#, but is sold as 10# due to wet knot strength.
If you were worried only about fish breaking the line, that's up to how you handle your drag. It's those danged weeds that mess the equation, as those are a dead-pull. And, whether you stop the boat.
All-round, I'd prefer 15#+ wet knot strength, but I know some flygear bucktailers who love 8# as their tippets.
Cheers!
highlights
Active Member
Lighter line warrants the use of the Palomar knot.
No more clinch knots ever for this angler!
No more clinch knots ever for this angler!
Sea Ranger
Active Member
Yea, I thought 10 lbs was too light myself for springs. I'm heading up too Cowichan in a few weeks and once I get back I'm going to switch it over to a heavier line. Call me cheap but I've got a lot of right handed reels not being used so I was going to spool it onto one of these reels till next time I need it for trout fishing. ( I will probably forget about it and never use it again thinking its old line)
300 yards is a lot of mono for that little reel I agree but thats what they put on at the fishing store. 15 lbs seems a little light too but 20 seems a bit too heavy, maybe buy 15 lb maxima like highlights says would be a good idea.I've given the keeled gang troll a try cliffjumper but I must have rigged it wrong as it got all tangled. Cliffjumper, when you add weight to your keel how exactly do you do it.
I have one more question.... How limber of a rod can I use with that little reel.... I've got a very long light spin casting rod on it now but its so limber that its really hard to set the hook. Maybe with a bit of practice I'll get use to it or should I use a heavier rod .... Steve.
And remember....Keep your tip up!!!
300 yards is a lot of mono for that little reel I agree but thats what they put on at the fishing store. 15 lbs seems a little light too but 20 seems a bit too heavy, maybe buy 15 lb maxima like highlights says would be a good idea.I've given the keeled gang troll a try cliffjumper but I must have rigged it wrong as it got all tangled. Cliffjumper, when you add weight to your keel how exactly do you do it.
I have one more question.... How limber of a rod can I use with that little reel.... I've got a very long light spin casting rod on it now but its so limber that its really hard to set the hook. Maybe with a bit of practice I'll get use to it or should I use a heavier rod .... Steve.
And remember....Keep your tip up!!!
C
cliffjumper
Guest
Keel-weighting the Gangtroll. There's usually a flat piece on the front, before the spinner blades. drill a hole, if there's not one already on the bottom 1/4 of that blade. Duolock clip a bank sinker or a dipsey weight might fit in that hole.
Or tie a short dropper line of mono, about 3", to that hole and either tie on a clip & clip a weight, a bank sinker or crimp some pencil or splitshot weights to the dropper. The weight keeps that keel down, no twist imparted from the spinning blades. I use a large duolock & bank sinkers 1oz +/- to get down to my depth. The gang troll has a real bias to rise, so I usually add more than some may think right.
For rods, in salt, a trolling rod ML, rated to 17#, maybe 8'. But, those also often have triggers. A flyrod 8wt with an extension butt with 15# line should prove good.
Rods rated as "Dipsey" or "Planer" rods should have the brass for hooksets as they're setup
Or tie a short dropper line of mono, about 3", to that hole and either tie on a clip & clip a weight, a bank sinker or crimp some pencil or splitshot weights to the dropper. The weight keeps that keel down, no twist imparted from the spinning blades. I use a large duolock & bank sinkers 1oz +/- to get down to my depth. The gang troll has a real bias to rise, so I usually add more than some may think right.
For rods, in salt, a trolling rod ML, rated to 17#, maybe 8'. But, those also often have triggers. A flyrod 8wt with an extension butt with 15# line should prove good.
Rods rated as "Dipsey" or "Planer" rods should have the brass for hooksets as they're setup
C
cliffjumper
Guest
I was cutoff by the phone, then had to run to a scotch tasting (tough life).
Re: keel-weighting. Anyway, the weight attached to the keel works really well, and the spinner blades and/or bait spin freely w/o twisting the line.
If the troll doesn't have the front keel, a) you can buy keels (Luhr-Jensen), or b) add the mono dropper to the front swivel-eye which is tied to the mainline. You attach weight on the dropper... Bigger blades = bigger weight. Depending on the weight I think I need, I like tying bank sinkers or pencil lead on the dropper and crimp the bottom hard on the mono, tie a knot on the tag & crimp the pencil led. Alt: to be lighter, with small blades, put split shot on the dropper. The dropper then acts as the "keel" holding your main line stable and free of twist. An unweighted keel spins and flops all over the place, worse if it has a bend in it.
I also use that method for getting to depth those floating Rapala style plugs, or spinner/dodger-blade/hook/bait, and for spoons where my trolling speed might get too fast for a good wobble, and create a spinning spoon.
I buy 50-packs of swivels & soak them in wd-40 before using them. I think that helps. It certainly stopped corrosion in my swivels on my shore-casting salt set ups.
As far as rods (again) I'm not a frequent salmon-troller, so am no fount of wisdom on that. I have salt-trolled light lines & lighter lures infrequently, and been completely confident in a 7'6" Diawa Heartland walleye planer rod. I have a few others that would fill the bill very well, but defer to other posters' suggestions. It would handle pulling off a DR clip if you were using 12# and 14# mono lines, but thicker lines, I can't comment... no experience.
Were I pulling larger, deep-diving plugs, K-15X kwikfish/Flatfish or Worden SeaTigers, I want 30-50# braid and a heavy dipsey-diver rod, and a conventional reel that holds drag against the plug. (But sizes K10-K13 are OK on the Diawa.) That gear's overkill for 15# springs, but you need it to hold those big diving plugs. They work well when the salmon move up to the kelp bed edges as they'll get down to 35-40', about the bottom of the kelp, without using a DR.
That pretty much drains any intellect I have, so have fun. Those all work and are proven for me. (Now staying warm, dry and safely on my feet shore-casting this winter... Hmmm?!.. maybe give-up & go for bass & trout.)
Cheers!
Re: keel-weighting. Anyway, the weight attached to the keel works really well, and the spinner blades and/or bait spin freely w/o twisting the line.
If the troll doesn't have the front keel, a) you can buy keels (Luhr-Jensen), or b) add the mono dropper to the front swivel-eye which is tied to the mainline. You attach weight on the dropper... Bigger blades = bigger weight. Depending on the weight I think I need, I like tying bank sinkers or pencil lead on the dropper and crimp the bottom hard on the mono, tie a knot on the tag & crimp the pencil led. Alt: to be lighter, with small blades, put split shot on the dropper. The dropper then acts as the "keel" holding your main line stable and free of twist. An unweighted keel spins and flops all over the place, worse if it has a bend in it.
I also use that method for getting to depth those floating Rapala style plugs, or spinner/dodger-blade/hook/bait, and for spoons where my trolling speed might get too fast for a good wobble, and create a spinning spoon.
I buy 50-packs of swivels & soak them in wd-40 before using them. I think that helps. It certainly stopped corrosion in my swivels on my shore-casting salt set ups.
As far as rods (again) I'm not a frequent salmon-troller, so am no fount of wisdom on that. I have salt-trolled light lines & lighter lures infrequently, and been completely confident in a 7'6" Diawa Heartland walleye planer rod. I have a few others that would fill the bill very well, but defer to other posters' suggestions. It would handle pulling off a DR clip if you were using 12# and 14# mono lines, but thicker lines, I can't comment... no experience.
Were I pulling larger, deep-diving plugs, K-15X kwikfish/Flatfish or Worden SeaTigers, I want 30-50# braid and a heavy dipsey-diver rod, and a conventional reel that holds drag against the plug. (But sizes K10-K13 are OK on the Diawa.) That gear's overkill for 15# springs, but you need it to hold those big diving plugs. They work well when the salmon move up to the kelp bed edges as they'll get down to 35-40', about the bottom of the kelp, without using a DR.
That pretty much drains any intellect I have, so have fun. Those all work and are proven for me. (Now staying warm, dry and safely on my feet shore-casting this winter... Hmmm?!.. maybe give-up & go for bass & trout.)
Cheers!
Sea Ranger
Active Member
Thanks cliffjumper, Lots of good info. When I added weight to the keel it looked like it was adding a lot of drag to everything and was getting in the way of the blade but I'll give it another try like you suggested and see if that works any better.
And remember....Keep your tip up!!!
And remember....Keep your tip up!!!
scott craven
Well-Known Member
Is it really feasible to use a fly rod/reel when fishing
in the winter ?
I usually fish between 155-200'deep ,and that would be a lot of cranking to do on a fly reel ???
in the winter ?
I usually fish between 155-200'deep ,and that would be a lot of cranking to do on a fly reel ???
Sea Ranger
Active Member
I was thinking the same thing but if it works it will be a lot of fun so I'll give it a try. The other idea is to take my M2 reel and just put it on my spinning rod..... that would still be fun but with a quicker retreve.
And remember....Keep your tip up!!!
And remember....Keep your tip up!!!
S
Steely
Guest
I run my Islander Steelheader center pin reels off my Downrigger. Simple by just adding a rubber band to hold knobs from turning till the fish hits ~~ It sings so sweet ~~~
dual purpose reel
dual purpose reel
Hey R.S. I have fished with flyrods and inexpensive reels for winters for 3 years now and it is worth the bit of hassle in terms of bringing gear up from 150 feet. Main thing is to uee mini flashers which have very little resistance and never to use bait,,only use squirts or spoons. Who wants to reel up a fly reel that far to check status of your bait every time you get a hit at 150 feet. Line creep has been my only issue which is what started this thread in the first place. Give it a try and you won't go back to regular gear in the winter!
Sea Ranger
Active Member
My little fly reel has a great drag system so I don't think thats going to be a problem. The rod is real light and for that reason I think a small flasher is the answer.
Which color flasher would be best, I must have 30 regular size flashers and only one mini flasher(green). Maybe a nice little glow flasher would be a good bet to buy for winter spring fishing. The first winter teen will tell me if my rod is too light thats for sure.... I can hardly wait to try it..... Steve.
And remember....Keep your tip up!!!
Steve:
Hard to find a good variety of mini flashers but I hava a 1/2 dozen including a purple haze, betsy, white/glow, glow with red trim, green and silver. Favourite is the white/glow. I keep looking for more all of the time
What reel are you using that has great drag?
Biggest issue I have found is to set the downwrigger clip to the right tension so that you can break the line off the clip without breaking the fly rod. Takes a bit of trial and error to get it right.
Hard to find a good variety of mini flashers but I hava a 1/2 dozen including a purple haze, betsy, white/glow, glow with red trim, green and silver. Favourite is the white/glow. I keep looking for more all of the time
What reel are you using that has great drag?
Biggest issue I have found is to set the downwrigger clip to the right tension so that you can break the line off the clip without breaking the fly rod. Takes a bit of trial and error to get it right.
Sea Ranger
Active Member
This is the same reel that HighLights was talking about, not sure if it the same model or not but I bought it from Westshore sportsfishing store. With backing, line and taxes it was $80.00 not too expensive. The drag tightens right down and allows it to be used like a M2 reel. I keep the drag fairly tight to hold the curve in the rod while its on the downrigger and it works REEL good ( sorry for the pun.... couldn't resist....lol.)Here's a picture of it....
And remember....Keep your tip up!!!
Sea Ranger
Active Member
Best part is this reel comes left handed from the factory and if you want it right handed then you have to change it over.... no big deal but hey..... for once something is left handed.
And remember....Keep your tip up!!!
And remember....Keep your tip up!!!
C
cliffjumper
Guest
These are great in the lakes...
http://www.gibbsfishing.com/products_herringdodger.asp
Take the hooks off these, add a back swivel...
http://www.gibbsfishing.com/products_clendonstewart.asp
http://www.gibbsfishing.com/products_wonderspoon.asp
I like these best, Clendon spoons, hook off add swivel.. leader hook/lure about 3' - 4' back Hootchies/worms/leeches/flies about 2'-3', 12#-15# flourocarbon leader (stiff) to get active.
http://www.gibbsfishing.com/products_trollingstewart.asp
Light lines?.. Sharp hooks!
RS, I think 200', even with 20# braids would strain most fly reel drags even with squirts & small spoons. The dodgers even small create a lot of action/drag, but that's held by a DR clip.
The key to all these attractors is to not troll too fast or they spin. They're designed to wobble. If they spin, they may start to helicopter in a bigger circle and get erratic. Use flashers or spinners for higher speed.
Luhr Jensen smaller dodgers, about 4"-5" seem to go on sale every winter at Cdn Tire. colours tend on the wild side. Check their L-J discount bin. They always have some flutter spoons in there that might work, but I haven't tried them. Both Cabela & BPS put their residual stock of flashers on sale about this time through Christmas. The residual stock are colours left over and usually pretty small sizes. Flashers for faster spinning presentations and dodgers for slower wobble-presentations.
You could also try trolling rattle-wiggle warts and shallow Rapalas. It works on trout & bass down deep 4'-6' behind a spoon. The Rapala would probably mimic needlefish. Ghost & black-white work best for me (lakes) at depth or low light.
Also, you could try small-blade gang-trolls down that deep at faster speeds. Due to the light conditions, I'd probably paint the blades white, glow or red/black with a white stripe.
The downrigger clip would hold the drag from the lure and eliminate mainline twist, but the depth of line you have down brings us back to the start of the thread.
Other than buying a new reel, I tend to believe 30# (0.009"-0.010") powerpro cuts that drag to 25%-40% of 20# mono. When I drag small Worden Sea Tigers (big deep-dive plugs), using 40# Stren braid, the plugs run about their stated depth, 35', and the line's about 45degrees from the boat, the plug's about 70 degrees from the entry point of the line with 150' of line out at around 2-3 knots. (You can watch that near verticle dive when they're right by the boat with 30' line out. Using 25# BigGame, they dive half or less as deep with the same amount of line out. It's hard to tell because the 30' of line carries the plug so far back... Less line drag with braid.)
Anyway, try stripping the hooks from a good spoon to make small flashers and add a back swivel to tie your hootchies/leader.
Cheers
http://www.gibbsfishing.com/products_herringdodger.asp
Take the hooks off these, add a back swivel...
http://www.gibbsfishing.com/products_clendonstewart.asp
http://www.gibbsfishing.com/products_wonderspoon.asp
I like these best, Clendon spoons, hook off add swivel.. leader hook/lure about 3' - 4' back Hootchies/worms/leeches/flies about 2'-3', 12#-15# flourocarbon leader (stiff) to get active.
http://www.gibbsfishing.com/products_trollingstewart.asp
Light lines?.. Sharp hooks!
RS, I think 200', even with 20# braids would strain most fly reel drags even with squirts & small spoons. The dodgers even small create a lot of action/drag, but that's held by a DR clip.
The key to all these attractors is to not troll too fast or they spin. They're designed to wobble. If they spin, they may start to helicopter in a bigger circle and get erratic. Use flashers or spinners for higher speed.
Luhr Jensen smaller dodgers, about 4"-5" seem to go on sale every winter at Cdn Tire. colours tend on the wild side. Check their L-J discount bin. They always have some flutter spoons in there that might work, but I haven't tried them. Both Cabela & BPS put their residual stock of flashers on sale about this time through Christmas. The residual stock are colours left over and usually pretty small sizes. Flashers for faster spinning presentations and dodgers for slower wobble-presentations.
You could also try trolling rattle-wiggle warts and shallow Rapalas. It works on trout & bass down deep 4'-6' behind a spoon. The Rapala would probably mimic needlefish. Ghost & black-white work best for me (lakes) at depth or low light.
Also, you could try small-blade gang-trolls down that deep at faster speeds. Due to the light conditions, I'd probably paint the blades white, glow or red/black with a white stripe.
The downrigger clip would hold the drag from the lure and eliminate mainline twist, but the depth of line you have down brings us back to the start of the thread.
Other than buying a new reel, I tend to believe 30# (0.009"-0.010") powerpro cuts that drag to 25%-40% of 20# mono. When I drag small Worden Sea Tigers (big deep-dive plugs), using 40# Stren braid, the plugs run about their stated depth, 35', and the line's about 45degrees from the boat, the plug's about 70 degrees from the entry point of the line with 150' of line out at around 2-3 knots. (You can watch that near verticle dive when they're right by the boat with 30' line out. Using 25# BigGame, they dive half or less as deep with the same amount of line out. It's hard to tell because the 30' of line carries the plug so far back... Less line drag with braid.)
Anyway, try stripping the hooks from a good spoon to make small flashers and add a back swivel to tie your hootchies/leader.
Cheers
Sea Ranger
Active Member
This is all new to me so all this info is great to read.... Thanks.
And remember....Keep your tip up!!!
And remember....Keep your tip up!!!
Fins -n- Skins
Well-Known Member
I just use dummy flashers. You can use the big flasher and a fly rod with just the spoon or plug.. If your going to use plastic then a flasher is a must.
For those of you who want to use ultra light (8-10lb test mono) off the rigger with an attractor attached and a fly reel.... it can easily be done. I've used this for summer chinook up to 36 pounds. The gear is very specific though. I use 8lb main for this setup. I have a few of the old Super Release Dodgers which are key. I use a small bead chain at the end of the main to about 6-7 feet of 40 lb leader. The red pin that plugs into the back of the dodger is located on the 40 lb leader behind the bead chain. This pin is plugged into the flasher quite hard. (this 40 lb leader and the pin set the hook) The release clip on the rigger cable is set very loose as not to break the 8lb test. It only has to be set tight enough to allow you to crank the rod down in the holder and take the slack out without releasing. When the fish hits the 40 lb and the tight pin hook the fish, once the fish pops it free the release on the rigger pops easily. Now you are flasher/dodger free and playing your fish on 8 lb test!!! The only downside is that smaller fish can't pull the tight pin free and you have to bring the rigger up and release it all by hand. You can't release the tight pin by the rod and 8 lb test. I wouldn't use this in the winter...to many smaller fish around....but a blast in late May and June!!
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