Fish Farm trouble in BC.

[Birdsnest]

I

Tell me Birdsnest

What would it take to change YOUR mind?
This debate is not going anywhere until new science is released.
Round and round it goes….
You don’t dispute that Fish Farm Sea Lice DO KILL SMOLTS as even the Fish Farm themselves recognise this fact. Just because it is impossible to accurately count the number of deaths does not mean it is not happening as Bones suggests…. does it?
How would you suggest we count the deaths of wild salmon from virus’s Fish Farm originated or not?
Do you support the independent widespread testing for PRV and HSMI virus?
There have been NO END of studies, reports and evidence posted on this forum that our Wild Salmon and Fish Farms do not mix safely together.
You and other Fish Farm supporters post no end of reports and evidence that disputes this.
Do you really think you are convincing anyone on this form that you are right?
I do not consider myself an expert on the subject, but
It appears to me we have a case of big money talks and to hell with the risks.
It’s a good thing there are well informed members of this Forum to counter your and others predictable posts…but this is one of your posts that I would agree with.
Why Facts don’t convince people

I take it you had no rebutle to my post about the hites study so you responded with the usual diatribe where you claim to represent all the forum members blah blah bla. Typical.

 

[fogged in]

I

I take it you had no rebutle to my post about the hites study so you responded with the usual diatribe where you claim to represent all the forum members blah blah bla. Typical.

lol
as I said....on and on it goes
that report (hites study) is a mouthful.... do you really expect me to debate it with you????
But you choose not to answer my two very simple to answer questions...why??

"You don’t dispute that Fish Farm Sea Lice DO KILL SMOLTS as even the Fish Farm themselves recognize this fact. Just because it is impossible to accurately count the number of deaths does not mean it is not happening as Bones suggests…. does it?
How would you suggest we count the deaths of wild salmon from virus’s Fish Farm originated or not?
Do you support the independent widespread testing for PRV and HSMI virus?"

 

[Birdsnest]

lol
as I said....on and on it goes
that report (hites study) is a mouthful.... do you really expect me to debate it with you????
But you choose not to answer my two very simple to answer questions...why??

"You don’t dispute that Fish Farm Sea Lice DO KILL SMOLTS as even the Fish Farm themselves recognize this fact. Just because it is impossible to accurately count the number of deaths does not mean it is not happening as Bones suggests…. does it?
How would you suggest we count the deaths of wild salmon from virus’s Fish Farm originated or not?
Do you support the independent widespread testing for PRV and HSMI virus?"

what do you mean by a mouth full?

 

[fogged in]

what do you mean by a mouth full?

Is that the best you can do to answer my very simple question
If you want to refuse to answer, just say so

 

[Birdsnest]

I don't understand what you mean by a mouthful. Please explain.

 

[fogged in]

I don't understand what you mean by a mouthful. Please explain.

I think I have made my point
You choose not to answer my VERY SIMPLE QUESTIONS...no surprise to anyone.
There is no point in taking this discussion any further.....
Certainly your needing an explanation for the term "mouthful" does not justify a debate.

 

[Birdsnest]

Well I don't think it would be fair for me to assume what you mean by the phrase"a mouthfull". And it's in your first question. And you seem to demand that I answer your questions, as usual so throw me a bone.

 

[Birdsnest]

For example: when I say "throw me a bone" I mean help a guy out. Give me a hand with this.

 

[Dave]

Love it! I think he means he didn't read it Birdie ...

 

[bigdogeh]

Oh the hites study. It has been debunked so many times on this forum. One more time although this won't change any minds here and those here who won't have their minds changed will attack the source and not one bit of the content in the article will be challenged.

http://fairquestions.typepad.com/files/vivian-pcbs-16feb2010-9.pdf

hehe, I put out a link authored by a scientist to a study published in the prestigious Science magazine. I don't think there was any part of that study that had any notices or disclaimers or anything absolving him of any responsibility of what he published unlike vivian krauses report (which doesn't look like it's published anywhere... ) ... Hmm, wonder why? Maybe she should get something published in Science magazine showing how wonderful and healthy farmed salmon is? ... Just the first page of vivian krauses rebuttal has to make you wonder how accurate anything she is saying is....
Did you get prior written permission before distributing the link Birdsnest? lol,


NOTICE
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DISCLAIMER
This document presents the concerns, opinions and questions
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While the information herein is believed to be accurate and
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Users of this document should exercise due diligence to
ensure the accuracy and currency of all information.
The author reserves the right to amend this document on the
basis of information received after it was initially presented.
DISCLOSURE
Vivian Krause worked in the salmon farming industry
between 1 January 2002 and 13 October 2003.
In January of 2007, she served as a consultant to Millerd
Holdings Ltd., which has interests in processing farmed
salmon on Vancouver Island. In July of 2007, she served
briefly as a consultant to an international salmon farming
trade organization.
Vivian Krause has not worked for the salmon farming
industry since 31 July 2007.

 

[bigdogeh]

Is this the same Vivian Krause, former fish farm consultant who is now an author for alberta oil magazine? Seems she has a hangup over environmentalists also...
https://www.albertaoilmagazine.com/2016/10/opinion-time-energy-industry-ignore-vivian-krause/

seems even one of her oil industry co-workers says much of her data doesn't support her conclusions ... lol,

 

[terrin]

studies to old for you? ok..... how is it fish farms are killing these smolts? they are dead in the estuary.....



http://kintama.com/animator/dep/Chilko2016_chinook/

When I look at the videos of the 2010,11,12 Chilko sockeye you posted I see most if not all smolts go up the inside. Then I see a lot of dots end at the recievers at either side of Texada Island which tells me that they didn't make it past the Fish Farms to the final reciever on the North tip of Van Island. What am i missing here? Pretty easy to see where a lot dissapeared.

 

[terrin]

http://www.ctvnews.ca/w5/update-hea...d-with-government-and-industry-vets-1.3690863

Wow.

 

[cuttlefish]

Ya, wow indeed.

"During an interview with W5, Dr. Gary Marty said: “Well, the first time I reported abnormalities in the heart that looked like HSMI was in 2008. When I talk to our veterinarians, they tell me that we don’t have the serious clinical disease that they have in Norway, and so we don’t use the term HSMI like they do in Norway. We prefer a more general term, um, to the public it would just be, ‘heart disease of unknown cause.'"

So, abnormalities in the hearts that looked like HSMI since 2008 but not further investigation into the cause of the abnormalities? That doesn't sound very precautionary to me...

 

[cuttlefish]

Anyone know if/where those records from the BC vet lab are available? I'd like to know how many times they reported "heart disease of unknown cause".

 

[GLG]

Anyone know if/where those records from the BC vet lab are available? I'd like to know how many times they reported "heart disease of unknown cause".

I did a deep dive into those records a few years back and I don't recall them ever saying "heart disease of unknown cause". Those records came out after a lawsuit was filed to release them. Perhaps our friends of fish farms have a copy. I'm sure they would be happy to post them up.

 

[bones]

In

When I look at the videos of the 2010,11,12 Chilko sockeye you posted I see most if not all smolts go up the inside. Then I see a lot of dots end at the recievers at either side of Texada Island which tells me that they didn't make it past the Fish Farms to the final reciever on the North tip of Van Island. What am i missing here? Pretty easy to see where a lot dissapeared.

all the videos they go through Johnson strait...... How many farms in Johnson strait? If you watch closely all the smolt are dead at the top of texada island.

Question for all the science out there. How is it fish farms are killing smolts on migration when it shows they prefer to migrate through Johnson strait and not the Broughton?
Second question. What stocks and salmon runs are being effected by fish farms?

 

[fogged in]

In
all the videos they go through Johnson strait...... How many farms in Johnson strait? If you watch closely all the smolt are dead at the top of texada island.
Question for all the science out there. How is it fish farms are killing smolts on migration when it shows they prefer to migrate through Johnson strait and not the Broughton?
Second question. What stocks and salmon runs are being effected by fish farms?

Hey Bones
did you just answer the question Dave and Birdsnest refuse to answer?
In your opinion and from the scientific evidence you read, Fish Farms do not, have not and will not ever be responsible for Sea Lice that kill outbound Wild Salmon stocks?

 

[GLG]

In
all the videos they go through Johnson strait...... How many farms in Johnson strait? If you watch closely all the smolt are dead at the top of texada island.

Question for all the science out there. How is it fish farms are killing smolts on migration when it shows they prefer to migrate through Johnson strait and not the Broughton?
Second question. What stocks and salmon runs are being effected by fish farms?

I think your are trying to jump to a conclusion using those videos. Best let the studies help us sort this out.

 

[bones]

Buddy was attending a science thing on wild salmon stocks. I guy from aquaculture stands up and asks " where do fish farms fit into this?"
DFO asked the same question post here over and over. What stock are effected by fish farms and how much damage to inventories? Would you care to explain or answer there question? Or are you going to spin this again?
AAcalled ******** on the migration routes that smolts take. It clear in the videos that out going smolts DO NOT TRAVEL THROUGH THE BROUGHTON. Please answer the questions.where in all the peer reviewed papers can I find this answer? In the chilko video it show all the smolt dead before reaching the Broughton, all but four, count them. How can smolts damage inventories when stock isn't even there?

Countless times you don't explain anything but instead answer a question with a question......sad. Shows a real big hole in your fish farms did it answer. Many times AA, ask to prove fish farms do not damage wild stocks..... How much more proof do you need?