Fish Farm trouble in BC.

[terrin]

Where the sewage? You do know the difference between sewage and waste right?
Sewage in full of product not fit for humans. Fish waste is full of nitrates and phosphate's, some carbon. What information are you getting sewage from?

http://commonsensecanadian.ca/fish-farm-sewage-dfo-expansions-cost-money/ for sewage and http://www.seachoice.org/state-of-our-oceans-2/aquaculture-issues/aquaculture-methods/ for waste.

 

[triplenickel]

This is a valid point. It's a major issue that is not easily addressed because of the many actors on the recreational sector compared to the few on the fish farm side. It can be addressed by two ways that I can think of. There maybe more but let's look at these two different ways. One way would be through what is known as "command and control", this is creating laws or regulation that compel actors to lower their emissions by fuel efficiency rules. In the recreational sector this is called CARB standards on outboard motors. Currently we are at CARB 3 and CARB 4 for most jurisdictions. Not sure if BC has a regulation outlining what can be sold in the province but this is just one method and is similar to the rules going forward in transportation industry. The second method is to capture the external cost by means of a tax on the product. That, as you know, is what the "carbon tax" is. It is a more efficient way because it changes the behavior of the actor by letting them make decisions based on price. The truth is that you need both to be effective because people are slow to change.

On a side note Bombardier's new jet is 35% more fuel efficient and can save customers travel distance because it can operate at smaller airports. It is years ahead of the competition.

Thanks, I appreciate the straightforward conversation without obfuscation. To play devil's advocate and drive this thread further off the rails even though it's 35% more efficient don't we need to look at not only the emissions that'll come from usage, but also those from manufacture and see if this is compatible with Canada's reduction strategy? I might have missed it but AFAIK it's never been part of the national conversation.

 

[triplenickel]

Answered that question by referring to BN's post:
The links were in reference to answering BN's questions. Hope that clears it up.

You didn't answer anything, but you know what you're doing. Your thoughts on the 2 questions you quoted aren't answered anywhere in BN's post.

 

[agentaqua]

You didn't answer anything, but you know what you're doing. Your thoughts on the 2 questions you quoted aren't answered anywhere in BN's post.

They were on post #290, 3x5:

Thank you BN & 3x5 - you make some relevant contrasting points.

With regard to energy/carbon credits/GHG emissions - there are alternative energy sources that can be used to power pumps. People have been using CC for years and there is nothing technically-limiting - just financial.

With respect to fishing impacts - they are being addressed. DFO has a number of policies and initiatives focusing on these impacts:
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/reports-rapports/regs/policies-politiques-eng.htm
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/pnw-ppe/pol/PolicyStatement-EnoncePolitique-eng.pdf
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/reports-rapports/regs/sff-cpd/overview-cadre-eng.htm

You can legitimately argue if politics is getting in the way of effectively applying fisheries management objectives - I am guessing most would argue it is - but that is a separate discussion - separate from the discussion over FF impacts.

 

[Birdsnest]

They were on post #290, 3x5:

So when dfo supports the sport fishing industry it is ok but not with salmon farms. Isn't this the same conflict of interest you constantly point out about dfo and bc salmon farming? Im surprised you have this double standard. lol no Im not. This is very typical.

 

[california]

Where the sewage? You do know the difference between sewage and waste right?
Sewage in full of product not fit for humans. Fish waste is full of nitrates and phosphate's, some carbon. What information are you getting sewage from?

What is your point? Anytime a large number of individuals are living together, whether it be human city, or a net pen of of 100,000 fish, their collective waste is harmful to the immediate environment. Sewage is the wastewater from human settlements, and includes anything sent down the toilet or sink. The main toxic component is human waste, but there is paper and a host of other substances that can be included. The waste from a fish farm is technically not sewage, but it is also primarily waste products from an animal (and uneaten food waste). The toxicity of the fish waste is not a function of its composition, but rather its concentration. At low concentrations, waste products can be beneficial as fertilizers for plant species, but as the concentration increases they can cause overgrowth of plant matter, and are directly toxic to living organisms in higher concentrations.

 

[agentaqua]

So when dfo supports the sport fishing industry it is ok but not with salmon farms. Isn't this the same conflict of interest you constantly point out about dfo and bc salmon farming? Im surprised you have this double standard. lol no Im not. This is very typical.

That'd be your voice - not mine, BN. I was pointing out that the fishing industries were not exempt from risk-adverse strategies/policies - answering your previous question.

 

[triplenickel]

They were on post #290, 3x5:

Are you sure? Because the last time you said they were in 283. I would question both answers.

 

[GLG]

Thanks, I appreciate the straightforward conversation without obfuscation. To play devil's advocate and drive this thread further off the rails even though it's 35% more efficient don't we need to look at not only the emissions that'll come from usage, but also those from manufacture and see if this is compatible with Canada's reduction strategy? I might have missed it but AFAIK it's never been part of the national conversation.

Yes they are and they should. Let's not drag this thread off the rail so I'll leave this link and if you want start a new thread and we can have a conversation.
http://www.bombardier.com/en/sustainability.html

 

[SpringVelocity]

I think its silly to argue about Kuterra. First off the entire facility was designed here using a lot of local manufacturers, and engineering designers. Tons of money went into local fabricating shops and suppliers across Vancouver Island to build this. That in itself put a lot investment especially the Nanaimo area where the entire facility was designed. Kuterra was also the first if its kind. I think the main point on this project is they were able to successfully farm the salmon in closed containment facility. Of course its more expensive than open pen system. Did you actually think it would be the same? They just need to get the operating costs down, and I don't see first nations doing these kind of projects myself. It wasn't a waste of money and it proves it can be done. We should all be hoping there are lots of these facilities built. Construction and manufacturing jobs this island really needs. I hope to see another facility built.

How many subsidies and tax dollars to the open net pen farmers get? Probably millions as well. Lets not kid ourselves.

 

[SpringVelocity]

Kuterra's struggles are unfortunate and not unexpected. If we made CC mandatory and outlawed the failed open net-pen experiment - we wouldn't even need to have this debate...

Exactly

 

[OldBlackDog]

And the really sad part.

Sportsfishermen do not speak with one voice.
They do not even speak with 3 voices.
They do not agree on much.
They have no lobby in Ottawa.
They have no money in the game.
They have no one speaking on their behalf to the press.

So, until they get these and more problems resolved they have no clout.
There may be a lot of licenses sold but there is no voice for them all.

So, when they are about to loose something, Thompson Steelhead, Chinook fishing they are looked upon by the politicians as nothing to be concerned about.

Pretty sad don’t you think?

Got a solution?

Here are some 2013 stats:
Sport Fishing How We $$tack Up – Feb 6, 2013
Posted by me under General
Here are my column from this week and the table of figures that shows sport fishing is the biggest sector of the fish industries.

Last week’s column highlighted a study that says fish farms decrease wild salmonid populations on average by 50%. This is where all the wild salmon are going, why the ywest coast of Van Isle has only 6,000 wild spawning chinook from the San Juan River to Quatsino Sound. Shame on DFO.

Sport Fishing – How We $$tack Up

A report I have been waiting for for five years has finally come out. BC Stats, a BC government agency, has released its 2011 stats on the part of our economy related to fish, seafood, processing and sport fishing. These are the only stats you should believe as they rigorously eliminate the effects of inflation, double counting, and they lay out their realistic multipliers and caveats completely.

Other estimates, such as those from DFO, the BC government, CFIA and fish farms, are blue sky hopes, and not very grounded in reality. The BC Stats punch line is: sport fishing is far and away the most important part of our province’s fish economy, and at $325.7 (all figures in millions and constant 2002 dollars) is 48.8% of the $667.4 contributed to BC’s Gross Domestic Product, with the smallest sector being aquaculture at $61.9 or only 9.3%.

As the biggest, sport fishing deserves most of the money spent on what we want. Commercial sector employment has dropped 50% in the past decade and currently employs 1,400. The drop is largely related to lack of fish, and that is DFO’s responsibility. We have waited almost 40 years for it to implement the Salmon Enhancement Program properly, and put more salmon in the sea. It needs to come clean with the Cohen Commission Report, by severing its conflicting ties with fish farms (three months after the Report release and there still is no reply from DFO), take the precautionary principle seriously, implement the Wild Salmon Policy, bring in a new coastal director general, do the habitat work it has never done completely and put fish farms on land.

Employment in all aquaculture types is 1,700 positions or 12.2% of the fishing sector total of 13,900, while sport fishing is a whopping 8,400 positions for 60.4% of the entire sector. We deserve our tax dollars spent on what we want and that is wild salmon. (No doubt commercial guys would agree). In terms of wages and salaries, sport fishing pays out big, too, at $218.9 – over 57% of the entire sector. It is only $55.7 for all of aquaculture – 14.5%.

And do remember that DFO and the fish farms have in the past liked to say it is 6,000 employment and $800 Million. Sorry, only BC Stats is rigourous and reliable. And remember that in late 2011, the large fish farms released their actual employment and it counted up to only 820 actual jobs – even below the BC Stats figures. Marine Harvest had to let staff go and has had a rocky 2012, losing millions to Kudoa in the past two years (makes fish flesh turn to mush). Do note that wages for the commercial sector were only $8.4, however, an additional $70, is warranted because owner/operator profits are not technically ‘wages/salaries’. Again declining wages point to a lack of wild fish – a DFO responsibility. See a table of all the figures at: www.catchsalmonbc.com.

In 2011 dollars, total revenues are: Commercial – $344.8; Processing – $427.5; Sport Fishing – $936.5 and, aquaculture – $469.0, meaning that sport fishing, at 43.0% of the $2.2 billion total, is twice – or more – the size of any of the other sectors. And we don’t buy much farmed salmon – I calculate less than $5 per person per year. So, DFO: show us the – wild salmon – money!

Go to www.fishfarmnews.blogspot for the summary table. I could not load the table properly on this site, so have made it the first item on the farmfarmnews site.

This is the BC Stats document that I used:
http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/Statis...stry/FisheriesAquacultureHuntingTrapping.aspx.
.

 

[fogged in]

130 Fish Farm licenses and numbers growing rapidly
But the Fish Farm guys say their Sea Lice and Disease only kill a few wild salmon so not to worry or fight to have them moved to dry land

 

[Dave]

Numbers growing rapidly? Really?

 

[fogged in]

Numbers growing rapidly? Really?

You are right Dave. "Really?"
I have no up to date numbers on new license growth.
If not rapid growth, you might be able to tell me how Fish Farms will meet their output predictions.
No dispute so far on my comment that Fish Farms kill some Wild Salmon but not enough to worry about.

 

[terrin]

And the really sad part.

Sportsfishermen do not speak with one voice.
They do not even speak with 3 voices.
They do not agree on much.
They have no lobby in Ottawa.
They have no money in the game.
They have no one speaking on their behalf to the press.

So, until they get these and more problems resolved they have no clout.
There may be a lot of licenses sold but there is no voice for them all.

So, when they are about to loose something, Thompson Steelhead, Chinook fishing they are looked upon by the politicians as nothing to be concerned about.

Pretty sad don’t you think?

Got a solution?

Thank god for Southern Resident Killer Whales and First Nation Rights and entitlement.

 

[california]

130 Fish Farm licenses and numbers growing rapidly
But the Fish Farm guys say their Sea Lice and Disease only kill a few wild salmon so not to worry or fight to have them moved to dry land
View attachment 35897

Regardless if new licenses are growing rapidly or not, the map with the existing concentrations of farms that can increase production on the East Side of Vancouver Island is bad enough.

 

[bigdogeh]

Numbers growing rapidly? Really?

The sites (amounts) are expanding, but also troubling is that many sites are being allowed to expand in increased tenure size (hectares) and amount of fish farmed. (biomass tonnage, Metric Tons)

https://www.watershed-watch.org/wor...lmonAquacultureLicenseChanges-March8_2017.pdf

https://www.watershed-watch.org/issues/salmon-farming/salmon-farming-expansion/


just one example

Lochalsh Bay,
Jackson
Passage
Tenure relocation approved
Aug. 09, 2016

Relocate 18
hectare
tenure at
Lochalsh Bay
to 158.89
hectares at
Alexandra

i 500MT to be
relinquished by
licence holder,
4000 MT
approved for
Alexandra Inl

what's that... about an 800% increase in size and amount of fish produced? Think these farms are ever going to get smaller as time goes on? Not likely with the fox looking after the henhouse...

4000 Metric Tons is 8,818,490 lbs to give you some perspective. That's a lot of fish poop, and a pretty big petri dish to culture (grow) salmon disease and virus.

 

[fogged in]

Letter to the editor in todays Times Colonist….

“Sea Lice protest, 60 Minutes, the Cohen Commission
The B.C. salmon farming industry has weathered them all but mention “piscine reovirus” and everyone runs for cover
80% of BC farmed salmon are infected.
If this disease agent is prohibited from entering Canadian waters as per federal regulations marine salmon farms do not have enough uninfected fish to operate legally in BC
The B.C fish farm health lab now under investigation claims the virus is harmless, which would make this a legal non-issue, but this claim crumbled when a second government lab got access to the farm and discovered the same heart disease as in Norway”

And the letter goes on......

 

[bones]

130 Fish Farm licenses and numbers growing rapidly
But the Fish Farm guys say their Sea Lice and Disease only kill a few wild salmon so not to worry or fight to have them moved to dry land
View attachment 35897

You've only shown active licenses, where the map on active sites? There should only be roughly 86 dots not 130.... Thats roughly 50 dots less