Esperanza Reports?

http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/wr00506.html#no2

When copyright does not apply

Titles, names and short word combinations are usually not protected by copyright. A "work" or other "subject matter" for copyright purposes must be something more substantial. However, if a title is original and distinctive, it is protected as part of the work it relates to.

You may have a brilliant idea for a mystery plot but until the script is actually written, or the motion picture produced, there is no copyright protection. In the case of a game, it is not possible to protect the idea of the game, that is, the way the game is played, but the language in which the rules are written would be protected as a literary work. Copyright is restricted to the expression in a fixed manner (text, recording, drawing) of an idea; it does not extend to the idea itself.

Other items which are not protected by copyright include:

names or slogans;
short phrases and most titles;
methods, such as a method of teaching or sculpting, etc.;
plots or characters; and factual information.

In the case of a magazine article including factual information, it is the expression of the information that is protected, and not the facts.

Facts, ideas and news are all considered part of the public domain, that is, they are everyone's property.

Note too, that you cannot hold a copyright for a work that is in the public domain. You can adapt or translate such a work and have a copyright for your adaptation or translation.



Charlie:

At the risk of pushing this further than need be, perhaps you should read the above information, as I believe it pertains more to the situation than the copyright info you published.

Again, I would ask you what specific property of yours did I copy?

In your first posting on this subject, you did not even name me as the person you believe copied your work. I had to ask you if you were referring to me.

If someone had published a copyrighted work of mine, such as a photo I took, and claimed credit for it, I would most certainly have named him and stated specifically what of mine he had copied.

Now, Charlie, you have provided some great information on fishing to this forum. I think I can speak for everyone here when I say that we all appreciate what you have given to the forum members.






Jim's Fishing Charters
www.JimsFishing.com
http://ca.youtube.com/user/Sushihunter250
 
quote:Originally posted by Charlie

There is public domain, that is, they are everyone's property.
But what you don't understand...IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN! And, is very much my idea... and the information copyright protected! And not for Commercial Use. Advertising you business is in violation of copyright laws... just loose the business affiliation and you won't have any problems from Canada, Nav, or anyone else!

Charlie:

First of all, you seem to be defending the copyright of the Navionics chart. Why, I'm not sure - Do you own Navionics, or CHS who provides them with the chart data?

My use of the Navionics charts is to produce a derivative work. A 'value added product" if you will.

And as I have stated many times already - I created and wrote the information posted to this forum. I did not copy it from you or anyone else here.

Also, I have asked you many times to provide specific details of what work of yours you feel I copied. You have not done this. All you have done is made wild claims of copyright infringement and copy and pasted various items from the Canadian copyright act.

Now you seem to be upset because I use this to promote my business.

After this exchange, I can only conclude the following:

1 - You do not own any interest in Navionics or CHS data products.

2 - You believe that you own copyright to whatever info is in your head.

3 - You claim that you wrote the information somewhere. - Proof please?

4 - That this conversation is going nowhere.



Jim's Fishing Charters
www.JimsFishing.com
http://ca.youtube.com/user/Sushihunter250
 
Charlie:

Are you suggesting that because you have posted charts (some copied from the DFO Mapster site with the fishing info taken directly from their GIS database) that you have intellectual ownership of that idea and no one else can copy charts with fishing locations - other than yourself??

I am just trying to follow the arguments in this thread as you do not seem willing to answer Jim's questions directly.

It could easily be argued that you have violated the same copyright laws you are so vehemently arguing for - think back to the crab locations in winter harbour.

In some ways - the two (Jim and Charlie) of you are making it way too easy for people that have never even been to these once remote locations to fish effectively and efficiently - and inadvertently increase effort. Some of us have spent countless hours to learn these locations....including yourselves. I guess this is your prerogative. It used to be nice to get away from the crowds of anglers that were too lazy or lacked the adventurous spirit to find new spots - now it is as easy as looking through discussion forums and instantly - be as knowledgeable as the locals.
 
quote:Originally posted by Charlie

But what you don't understand...IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN! And, is very much my idea... and the information copyright protected! And not for Commercial Use. Advertising your business is in violation of copyright laws... just loose the business affiliation and you won't have any problems from Canada, Nav, or anyone else!

My idea/ideas, and My transcript is in process of being published! All rights reserved!

Charlie:

And therein lies the problem.

You claim to have WRITTEN this - but it is NOT YET PUBLISHED.

So, how could I have copied it from you?

Seems to me that we both had similar ideas on how to present fishing information - I just beat you to publishing that info by posting it to a public forum.

If and when your book gets published, I look forward to buying and reading it.



Jim's Fishing Charters
www.JimsFishing.com
http://ca.youtube.com/user/Sushihunter250
 
quote:Originally posted by Roadrunner

Charlie:

Are you suggesting that because you have posted charts (some copied from the DFO Mapster site with the fishing info taken directly from their GIS database) that you have intellectual ownership of that idea and no one else can copy charts with fishing locations - other than yourself??
Nope, that is public domain and does come with disclosures!

quote:I am just trying to follow the arguments in this thread as you do not seem willing to answer Jim's questions directly.
Yep, I have!... see last post! If anyone wants clarification, I don't have a problem with that! Just don't take my ideas and try to promote your business, without permission!

quote:It could easily be argued that you have violated the same copyright laws you are so vehemently arguing for - think back to the crab locations in winter harbour.
Public domain! I never claimed any thing there... the public has the right... and if you note, it is stated, not for navigation, as required!

Also, I have gone through many "hoops" to make sure I do not violate anyones copyright! To include, contacting companies and individual, prior to the use of their </u> information!

quote:In some ways - the two (Jim and Charlie) of you are making it way too easy for people that have never even been to these once remote locations to fish effectively and efficiently - and inadvertently increase effort. Some of us have spent countless hours to learn these locations....including yourselves. I guess this is your prerogative. It used to be nice to get away from the crowds of anglers that were too lazy or lacked the adventurous spirit to find new spots - now it is as easy as looking through discussion forums and instantly - be as knowledgeable as the locals.
Yep, that is the intent... I don't have any PROBLEMS with sharing ANY information, until it comes to using it for Commerical Use! Everyone is free to copy anything I write or post for their own personal use, but DO NOT USE MY IDEAS TO PROMOTE YOUR BUSINESS! THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH!
 
Like I said - your prerogative. I hope that some restraint can be shown in the future - but given your cavalier approach I am sure that is too much to ask.[?]
 
for whats it's worth, the salmon and steelhead journal publishes maps of where and how to fish certain spots on the west coast complete with tips and such in their magazines.

to be clear the maps / charts do appear to be drawn vs pulled from some online/electronic resource, but the idea is the same.

Charlie, I am still trying to get a better understanding of your argument... is it because you got permission to use navionics maps to create your images that you are claiming copyright infringement while jim is just using the maps without consent from navionics? if that is the argument, i think navionics has more grounds for copyright infringement than you do. if its the concept, you are concerned about, i think its been done before.

i hope this argument can be resolved civily.
 
quote:
No Jim, you are wrong!
As soon as I sent it to someone... It was published! And, it has been sent to many, to get their feedback! To include, a couple of your buddies! That I am more than welling to give you their names!

But again, I don't have a problem with anyone using the information, until it comes to Commercial Use! That is where the problem lies! Not with you taking my ideas and posting them here, but with promoting your business!

http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12240&whichpage=1&SearchTerms=charts
http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12815&SearchTerms=charts\
http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11896&SearchTerms=charts

If you want more examples, I will glady provide to you!

Share the information, no problem, but don't take MY information, put your business name on it and claim it to promote your business!

Best regards,
I am ending this conversation!
Charlie

Charlie:

OK, I looked at the pages you linked to.

There are some charts that you posted with your mark-ups. Fine, no problem there - you are doing the same thing I am. I did not copy your charts. I made my own - the same way you did, more or less.

I grabbed a piece of chart I needed to show the area I was talking about in my post.

Essentially what you are saying is that if you mark your paper chart with a highlighter pen - I can't do the same.

I would be willing to bet that there are fishing forums all around the world where people are posting fishing charts the same way you and I are. And as long as it is not a direct copy of our work - there is NOTHING that either one of us can do about it.

For you to have an IDEA about marking up charts and publishing them in a book about fishing is fine. But copyright does not prevent me from doing the same thing to illustrate my fishing spots. If I were to ever publish a book for profit, then I would seek rights from the chart copyright holders. I would not seek your permission - I don't need it.

It would be different if I were to take your charts to illustrate my book or to post on this forum. But as I have stated many times - I HAVE NOT DONE THAT.

By your understanding of copyright, if someone tells me that I could catch fish by going to a spot and fishing 30' deep, I could not write about that or illustrate it using a chart. Sorry, copyright just does not work that way. You can not copyright an idea. Only a published work that you created.

Jim's Fishing Charters
www.JimsFishing.com
http://ca.youtube.com/user/Sushihunter250
 
quote:Originally posted by Sushihunter

quote:
No Jim, you are wrong!
As soon as I sent it to someone... It was published! And, it has been sent to many, to get their feedback! To include, a couple of your buddies! That I am more than welling to give you their names!

But again, I don't have a problem with anyone using the information, until it comes to Commercial Use! That is where the problem lies! Not with you taking my ideas and posting them here, but with promoting your business!

http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12240&whichpage=1&SearchTerms=charts
http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12815&SearchTerms=charts\
http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11896&SearchTerms=charts

If you want more examples, I will glady provide to you!

Share the information, no problem, but don't take MY information, put your business name on it and claim it to promote your business!

Best regards,
I am ending this conversation!
Charlie

Charlie:

OK, I looked at the pages you linked to.

There are some charts that you posted with your mark-ups. Fine, no problem there - you are doing the same thing I am. I did not copy your charts. I made my own - the same way you did, more or less.

I grabbed a piece of chart I needed to show the area I was talking about in my post.

Essentially what you are saying is that if you mark your paper chart with a highlighter pen - I can't do the same.

I would be willing to bet that there are fishing forums all around the world where people are posting fishing charts the same way you and I are. And as long as it is not a direct copy of our work - there is NOTHING that either one of us can do about it.

For you to have an IDEA about marking up charts and publishing them in a book about fishing is fine. But copyright does not prevent me from doing the same thing to illustrate my fishing spots. If I were to ever publish a book for profit, then I would seek rights from the chart copyright holders. I would not seek your permission - I don't need it.

It would be different if I were to take your charts to illustrate my book or to post on this forum. But as I have stated many times - I HAVE NOT DONE THAT.

By your understanding of copyright, if someone tells me that I could catch fish by going to a spot and fishing 30' deep, I could not write about that or illustrate it using a chart. Sorry, copyright just does not work that way. You can not copyright an idea. Only a published work that you created.

Jim's Fishing Charters
www.JimsFishing.com
http://ca.youtube.com/user/Sushihunter250
Well quess what... You are doing it for "a profit"!
And guess what else... You are taking my ideas</u>, an publishing them as yours!
And quess what... it has nothing to do with the creators of the charts!
And guess what... My idea, my post... My copyright!
And guess what else... You need to lose the commercial advertising!
 
quote:
Well quess what... You are doing it for "a profit"!
And guess what else... You are taking my ideas</u>, an publishing them as yours!
And quess what... it has nothing to do with the creators of the charts!
And guess what... My idea, my post... My copyright!
And guess what else... You need to lose the commercial advertising!



Sorry Charlie - You can NOT copyright an IDEA.

Neither can you copyright the process of publishing that idea.

That would be like me telling you that you can't post a photograph of your fish because I had the idea and did it first.

I am also sorry that you are getting so wound up on this issue when you are so clearly wrong about what your rights are pertaining to copyright.

If you believe that you are right, then give Gary Cooper a call and tell him that Ted Peck did fishing shows first and that he can't do it any more - or for profit.

I look forward to reading your book.

Jim's Fishing Charters
www.JimsFishing.com
http://ca.youtube.com/user/Sushihunter250
 
Oh yes I can... once published it does have a copyright! If you take my idea, and decide to publish it, which you did, it does apply under the copyright act! You did that!

Oh, the other thing I forgot guess what... YOU are the one that has the copyright infringement… I don't!
 
Might want to contact this guy:

140592d1245083664t-island-charts-westside.jpg




143561d1246602851t-diving-penquin-banks-july-1-banks.jpg



P7010214.jpg


Jim's Fishing Charters
www.JimsFishing.com
http://ca.youtube.com/user/Sushihunter250
 
Like I said, I am done with this post!

You do what you think is right. Then others have a decession to make!

If you want to use MY ideas, which are copyright protected... That is fine! But do NOT use them to promote a business, with that you need MY permission! If you want to violate someone else's copyright that is between YOU and Them!

Other than that, for personal use, have at it!
 
In my humble opinion, you two guys are are two of the best contributors to this site, chill out and carry on! SS

seaswirlstiper.jpg
 
I think they are suffering from fishing withdrawl or something. What do fisherman do when their boats are in the shop? Maybe they should joust with Halibut harpoons from a kayak to settle this.
 
quote:Originally posted by SeaWolf

I think they are suffering from fishing withdrawl or something. What do fisherman do when their boats are in the shop? Maybe they should joust with Halibut harpoons from a kayak to settle this.

Sounds like fun!

Where do you mount a 300 hp outboard on those things? [:o)]

Jim's Fishing Charters
www.JimsFishing.com
http://ca.youtube.com/user/Sushihunter250
 
quote:Originally posted by Striper Sniper

In my humble opinion, you two guys are are two of the best contributors to this site, chill out and carry on! SS

seaswirlstiper.jpg

Well, thank you there SS - I would go on to state that certainly applies to Charlie - one of the best contributors of fishing information here. [8D]

Jim's Fishing Charters
www.JimsFishing.com
http://ca.youtube.com/user/Sushihunter250
 
Jim,
I love ya, like a brother, but what is... is what is!

Like I said, I am done with this post!

You do what you think is right. Then others have a decession to make! And, I am one of those that will need to make a decession! Good Luck!

If you want to use MY ideas, which are copyright protected... That is fine! But do NOT use them to promote a business, with that you need MY permission! If you want to violate someone else's copyright that is between YOU and Them!

Other than that, for personal use, have at it!
 
Sorry Jim and Charlie I know this should be put to rest but I just saw this now as I haven't been on the site for a bit . I hope you guys ( and everyone else here) doesn' mind me saying how I feel about this.
I scanned through all these posts and I think its too bad that Jim and Charlie ran into this "you did copy" "no I didn't copy" issue.

I don't really understand what happened but I do know Charlie feels certain Jim copied Charlie's custom charts/Maps with fishing spots added.
I also know that Jim says he didn't copy Charlie's customized charts/Maps and that Jim's fishing spots on his maps charts were spots learned on his own.
Navionics charts surely are very heavily copyrighted so no one should publish navionics charts without their permission ( this site would be much less of a problem as Navionics would likely not care at all about references to their charts. After all its free advertising for them. Neither Charlie nor Jim should ever claim copywright on their customized charts/maps and publish them unless they got written permission from Navionics first.
The idea of colouring fishing areas on a chart is common so unless Charlie published custom maps with shading where an obvious style shape/detail of shading with identical sized spots and identical written information arrows etc etc. (and there was proof beyond a doubt that they were copied) , it would never even come close to a lawsuit.
Here is the simple way of looking at this without all the stuff about claiming copywright:
Jim is simply saying he didn't copy the maps that Charlie designed. We have to decide whether Jim is telling the truth and if Jim is telling the truth , great and Charlie is mistaken. If Jim did copy Charlie's maps, even a little....he shouldn't have without asking Charlie and then mentioning Charlie in a credit.
No matter who did what to whom in this case, just plain simple common lesson: we should treat others the same as we want to be treated.
 
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