E-LICENCE CHANGES NEAH BAY

Sunday, February 24, 2008
Bering Sea pollock fishery accidentally takes 130,000 prize chinook

Terri Theodore , THE CANADIAN PRESS

VANCOUVER - American fishing boats with massive nets dredging the bottom of the Bering Sea for pollock accidentally caught 130,000 thousand prized chinook salmon last year.

About half of those salmon would have ended up in Canadian rivers. It came in the same year that fish escapement levels were hardly reached in the Yukon River, well known for its chinook fishery.


Canadian commercial fishermen weren't allowed to take any chinook from the river and First Nations pulled just 5,000 fish for a food fishery.

The record accidental catch, or bycatch, has alarmed fisheries experts, environmentalists, government officials and even pollock trawlers, who say a bycatch cap would devastate their fishery.

DNA analysis shows about 20 per cent of the chinook caught up in the football field-sized nets were bound for the Yukon River, which runs through both Alaska and Yukon Territory.




Another 40 per cent of those salmon were destined for rivers in British Columbia and the U.S. Pacific Northwest.

The U.S. North Pacific Fisheries Management Council is looking over several options to prevent such a massive bycatch again, but it will be two years before new rules are implemented.

"And in the meantime nobody's watching the fish," Gerry Couture said in frustration.


Couture, a Canadian member of the Yukon Salmon Committee in the Yukon River Panel, said the process the save chinook is moving with glacial speed.

Chinook, also know as king, are the giants of the salmon world and can reach weights equal to an average seven-year-old child.

They are the fish you often see in pictures where a beaming sport fisherman is using both hands to hold up his catch, after fighting to get the fish in the boat.

Pollock are small, sedate and plentiful, and often used in fish sticks or fast-food fish sandwiches.

The billion-dollar Bering Sea pollock fishery is the largest in the world.

The bycatch issue has been a problem for years but never have so many chinook been caught up in the nets as in 2007.

Jon Warrenchuk, a marine scientists with the American marine advocacy group Oceana, said the failure to cut the bycatch is a failure in regulation.

"Salmon is so important to many people up and down the Pacific Coast," he said from his office in Juneau, Alaska. "It's boggling to me that there's no ceiling limit."

And while some First Nations aren't even allowed to catch their full chinook quota for sustenance, pollock fishermen are either throwing away the bycatch or donating the fish to food banks because they aren't allowed to sell it.

About 90 per cent of the 130,000 chinook bycatch was picked up by trawlers, while the remainder was captured by all other fisheries in the Bering Sea.

"I know the numbers look very bad," admitted Stephanie Madsen, executive director of At Sea Processors Association, which represents seven pollock-processing companies.

She said the industry agrees the bycatch in 2007 was unacceptable but they're not sure how to avoid the salmon, which seem to be following the pollock or vice versa.

Madsen said rolling closures haven't worked because they close one spot where the bycatch is high, only to find a high bycatch in the next place they throw their nets.

"We're struggling right now to figure out how to stay out of their way," she said.

Each of the four options going to the fishery management council are complicated, but break down into a hard-cap closure that would stop the fishery once a certain number of chinook are caught, a trigger cap that would set off a time-area closure, fixed closures that stop the fishery at a certain time or keep the status quo.

The Canadian Department of Fisheries and Oceans likes the idea of a solid cap and has informed the council it wants that cap set at 37,000 chinook.

The figure momentarily left Madsen speechless. She said such a cap on the industry would be devastating.

"It would be a dramatic impact, dramatic," she repeated "If you made us live with that cap in two years without any new tools, I can't even fathom the impact."

But the industry did live with a similar cap until 2002, and every year since the cap was lifted the bycatch has jumped.

Madsen denied the pollock fishery needs to "strain more water" though its nets to catch more pollock, adding science shows the stock isn't in trouble.

Frank Quinn, with the Department of Fisheries, agreed the industry has been trying to avoid the chinook.

"So it isn't as if there's been a blatant disregard," he said.

While the bycatch doesn't seem to be harming endangered chinook runs, Quinn said 130,000 salmon is still a drain on the resource.

"We're seeing results in the river and that's the reason we're taking the steps that we are to have this addressed," he said.

For Coutour - who likens managing a salmon run to shovelling smoke with a pitchfork - the bycatch is an issue that can be solved, unlike disease or warmer water.

"It's another cup full, you might say, in the bucket of low returns."

Warrenchuk agreed the problem must be addressed.

"To really bring these salmon back you have to address all sources of mortality including pollock bycatch in the Bering Sea," he said. "That's something you can do something about very easily."



© The Canadian Press, 2008
 
quote:Originally posted by fishingbc

Originally posted by battaglino

Fishbc,

I still think if I run from Neah Bay to fish in Canadian water and never anchor or make land I am not required to check in with customs

I think this is the loophole that they bank on. But drop an anchor for halis and that's an anchor. This summer will be different.
 
Nimo I don't fish with an anchor. I prefer to back troll if the tide are running.
Fishing bc. No "SA" I don't want one in 121, 122, 123 but maybe Bamfield, Sooke, or Reny would be nice. I spent an hour on goverment site reaseaching the issue of fishing in Canadian waters and not anchoring or reaching land and I could not find anything. The sites that you make referance are not for fishing they are for making land. I did find referances on the Ontario sites for allowing fishing in US waters by Canidans and vise versa and as long as you did not make land you where ok. I would think if there are been a change in the rules it would have been on the fisheries sites and it is not. I found the regs. a couple of years ago and will go through old emails from DFO and will post.
 
quote:Originally posted by battaglino

Nimo I don't fish with an anchor. I prefer to back troll if the tide are running.
Fishing bc. No "SA" I don't want one in 121, 122, 123 but maybe Bamfield, Sooke, or Reny would be nice. I spent an hour on goverment site reaseaching the issue of fishing in Canadian waters and not anchoring or reaching land and I could not find anything. The sites that you make referance are not for fishing they are for making land. I did find referances on the Ontario sites for allowing fishing in US waters by Canidans and vise versa and as long as you did not make land you where ok. I would think if there are been a change in the rules it would have been on the fisheries sites and it is not. I found the regs. a couple of years ago and will go through old emails from DFO and will post.

Coming to Canada by Small Aircraft or Recreational Boat Private aircraft and recreational boats arriving in Canada
Travellers on private, company-owned, or charter aircraft carrying 15 people or less (including members of the crew), as well as travellers on recreational boats, have to call a Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) telephone reporting centre to obtain authorization before arriving in Canada.

YOUR CLOSEST STATION IS VICTORIA....THERE IS ONE IN UCLUELET....TAKE YOUR PICK
 
The key to the statement is "arriving in Canada". I think this refers to making land not water. Look at all the Ships coming into the Staits they are in US waters on the way in and Canadian waters on the way out to sea some how I don't think each is checking into the other countries customs. I know you Canadians fish blue dot and sometime drift into US waters. I have seen this and somehow I don't think they will make it to the US ports to check in. I will find the regulations and send them to you. Like I said I have reseached this issue in the past and unless there was a change You are wrong and I will continue to fish from neah bay until law enforcement tells me I am breaking the law.
 
This is an interesting topic. Aircraft and boats are allowed the right of "innocent passage" through our territorial waters. A aircraft flying from Ketchikan to Bellingham or a cruise ship passing through the inside passage from Seattle to Anchorage are not required to report to CBSA as they will not land or make port in Canada.

Innocent Passage also includes anchoring. It is a concept under UN treaty, and apparently does not include fishing.

Article19

Meaning of innocent passage

1. Passage is innocent so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State. Such passage shall take place in conformity with this Convention and with other rules of international law.

2. Passage of a foreign ship shall be considered to be prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State if in the territorial sea it engages in any of the following activities:

(a) any threat or use of force against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of the coastal State, or in any other manner in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Charter of the United Nations;

(b) any exercise or practice with weapons of any kind;

(c) any act aimed at collecting information to the prejudice of the defence or security of the coastal State;

(d) any act of propaganda aimed at affecting the defence or security of the coastal State;

(e) the launching, landing or taking on board of any aircraft;

(f) the launching, landing or taking on board of any military device;

(g) the loading or unloading of any commodity, currency or person contrary to the customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws and regulations of the coastal State;

(h) any act of wilful and serious pollution contrary to this Convention;

(i) any fishing activities;

(j) the carrying out of research or survey activities;

(k) any act aimed at interfering with any systems of communication or any other facilities or installations of the coastal State;

(l) any other activity not having a direct bearing on passage.


Another concept that comes into play is territorial limits of coastal nations. 12 Miles appears to be the norm. So these US boats seem to be transitting our territorial waters and fishing outside the territorial limit but within an area recognized by the IPHC as being managed by Canada.

I guess this is why the DFO has to take what we see as the backdoor approach in managing the Neah Bay crowd.

As an aside the Neah Bay Cattle boat, Salmon U, and even Wikpedia, are now updated and recommend going to Victoria by Ferry or crossing at Blaine for a Canadian paper licence. I think the Victoria Charter crowd should start advertising heavily as a better alternative to a 4 hour (8 hour round) trip on a puker boat.

If you are a US boat fishing within our 12 mile limit then you are not protected by the right of innocent passage as far as I can see. The DFO guys have no jurisdiction enforcing our border, so in their books having the proper licence is sufficient. Maybe not so with those charged in protecting our borders.
 
Thanks to you all for the welcome reassurance. We absolutely fell in love with WCVI and, if it wasn't for the ten day driving commitment to make the trip we'd be back this year. But I'm sure the salmon and good times will wait until 2009. Meanwhile we'll content ourselves with trips to Lake Powell, Utah and the great striped bass fishing there. Lake Powel has to be one of the only places out there that requires dedicated fishermen and no catch limit on a game fish species in order to keep the population under control. Of course it helps to love eating striper. Any of you from north of the border ever want returned hospitality in fresh water, just shout. We'd be happy to show you around.
 
Thanks to you all for the welcome reassurance. We absolutely fell in love with WCVI and, if it wasn't for the ten day driving commitment to make the trip we'd be back this year. But I'm sure the salmon and good times will wait until 2009. Meanwhile we'll content ourselves with trips to Lake Powell, Utah and the great striped bass fishing there. Lake Powel has to be one of the only places out there that requires dedicated fishermen and no catch limit on a game fish species in order to keep the population under control. Of course it helps to love eating striper. Any of you from north of the border ever want returned hospitality in fresh water, just shout. We'd be happy to show you around.
 
quote:Originally posted by C.S.

Hey Gil,met you this a.m. at the shop.Thanks for learning me up some on this subject,very interesting!

Why does'nt anyone from the south island run cattle boats?Maybe a few guys go in a partnership on a 50ft puker boat based in Renfrew.
Chu-Ching$$$$$$$

A puker would have to run too far to get to the fish, and there is no where you could tie it up. The river for the marina is not condusive to a deep draft boat, and the Community Warf is quite protectionist, there are guys that have been waiting years to get in. Someone would have to team up with a well known and respected local to get a spot there. Last, but not least, at 8 knots, you are still a long way (3-4 hours) from where you can throw random lures at Coho.
 
quote:Originally posted by C.S.

Hey Gil,met you this a.m. at the shop.Thanks for learning me up some on this subject,very interesting!

Why does'nt anyone from the south island run cattle boats?Maybe a few guys go in a partnership on a 50ft puker boat based in Renfrew.
Chu-Ching$$$$$$$

A puker would have to run too far to get to the fish, and there is no where you could tie it up. The river for the marina is not condusive to a deep draft boat, and the Community Warf is quite protectionist, there are guys that have been waiting years to get in. Someone would have to team up with a well known and respected local to get a spot there. Last, but not least, at 8 knots, you are still a long way (3-4 hours) from where you can throw random lures at Coho.
 
Hey gpspowell, Bravo, what a nice post, love to have you back! :D:D SS
 
Hey gpspowell, Bravo, what a nice post, love to have you back! :D:D SS
 
quote:Originally posted by C.S.

I was thinking more on the lines of the big fast CanoeCove type boats like OBMG has in Ukee & RiversInlet.Get a load of people out to Swiftsure fast!Jig up there ping-pong paddle hallys and a few 10 pound springs....done!
They still han'nt built a decent warf in renny?what wrong with that place?

Hey are you Dans buddy on Hawk?.....whats the name of your boat?
 
quote:Originally posted by C.S.

I was thinking more on the lines of the big fast CanoeCove type boats like OBMG has in Ukee & RiversInlet.Get a load of people out to Swiftsure fast!Jig up there ping-pong paddle hallys and a few 10 pound springs....done!
They still han'nt built a decent warf in renny?what wrong with that place?

Hey are you Dans buddy on Hawk?.....whats the name of your boat?
 
quote:Originally posted by fishingbc

persoanlly called and e-mailed most Neah Bay charter operators today to notify them of the e-licence change.....they were all set to book tons of "CANADIAN HALIBUT TRIPS" this weekend at the annaul state wide outdoor show .....you shoulda heard some of the reactions.....

I don't know what your animosity is toward US sportfisherman participating in a internationally managed fishery on your side of an imanginary line, Fishingbc. These fish are highly migratory, and know no boundaries. BC already gets over 7 times the quota that we get off of the lower 48. Maybe we should lobby to shift a bunch of that quota to our side of the boarder in exchage to not be able to fish on yours out of our ports? 50/50 split sound fair? And we'll just keep it a one halibut limit on both sides of the boarder in a conservation effort okay?

Have you even thought about the handfull of pounds of halibut harvested by the handful of legal US charter boats out of Neah and LaPush compared to what your Commercial fleet harvests? Plus bycatch? Do you want me to throw some numbers at you?

Have you seen your Canadian draggers working over the shallow (less than 100 fathoms) banks along the boarder where large biomassses of Pacific Halibut exsist? Did you know that it is illegal to retain Trawl-caught halibut in all waters? Have you emailed the operators and owners of those vessels that waste the resourse and destroy the habitat with virtually no economic benifit what so ever, the way you emailed the legal charter operators from Neah?

Did you know that some of the NB charter operators are on the WDFW groundfish advisory board. And were well aware of this regulation change, probably before you were? Did you also know that many of these same charter operators were instumental in Yelloweye protection policies here in WA that limited their own fishing oportunity? (An example would be by supporting and pushing to get the groundfish closure extended further south to protect large populations of Yelloweye even though it meant giving up some of the very productive Halibut and Lingcod fishing that exsists within the expanded boundary?

Be hosest about your emails. Post them here. Post how you did not just politely inform charter operators of the news that they were already well aware of. Post your emails on how you taunted them!

Well before the online license was available, we've always gotten our licenses in person to fish 123. And so were the customers of NB charter vessels. I will continue to do just that, as that any recreational fisherman willing to pay for a DFO tidewater licenses, by US and Canadian law, is entitled to fish this shared resourse. Despite imaginary lines.

If your problem is supposed charter boats of US origin operating illegally out of Canadian ports, then what does the E-license restriction solve? Nothing! I would support DFO/RCMP or whoever put a stop to it, if in fact it really exsists.

Instead of sportfisherman bickering with Sportfisherman, we should be bickering about the real problems. No matter what flag we fly. This post is not an attack to Sportfishbc or anyone or any agencey directly. (certainly not trying to taunt) Just another point of view.
 
quote:Originally posted by fishingbc

persoanlly called and e-mailed most Neah Bay charter operators today to notify them of the e-licence change.....they were all set to book tons of "CANADIAN HALIBUT TRIPS" this weekend at the annaul state wide outdoor show .....you shoulda heard some of the reactions.....

I don't know what your animosity is toward US sportfisherman participating in a internationally managed fishery on your side of an imanginary line, Fishingbc. These fish are highly migratory, and know no boundaries. BC already gets over 7 times the quota that we get off of the lower 48. Maybe we should lobby to shift a bunch of that quota to our side of the boarder in exchage to not be able to fish on yours out of our ports? 50/50 split sound fair? And we'll just keep it a one halibut limit on both sides of the boarder in a conservation effort okay?

Have you even thought about the handfull of pounds of halibut harvested by the handful of legal US charter boats out of Neah and LaPush compared to what your Commercial fleet harvests? Plus bycatch? Do you want me to throw some numbers at you?

Have you seen your Canadian draggers working over the shallow (less than 100 fathoms) banks along the boarder where large biomassses of Pacific Halibut exsist? Did you know that it is illegal to retain Trawl-caught halibut in all waters? Have you emailed the operators and owners of those vessels that waste the resourse and destroy the habitat with virtually no economic benifit what so ever, the way you emailed the legal charter operators from Neah?

Did you know that some of the NB charter operators are on the WDFW groundfish advisory board. And were well aware of this regulation change, probably before you were? Did you also know that many of these same charter operators were instumental in Yelloweye protection policies here in WA that limited their own fishing oportunity? (An example would be by supporting and pushing to get the groundfish closure extended further south to protect large populations of Yelloweye even though it meant giving up some of the very productive Halibut and Lingcod fishing that exsists within the expanded boundary?

Be hosest about your emails. Post them here. Post how you did not just politely inform charter operators of the news that they were already well aware of. Post your emails on how you taunted them!

Well before the online license was available, we've always gotten our licenses in person to fish 123. And so were the customers of NB charter vessels. I will continue to do just that, as that any recreational fisherman willing to pay for a DFO tidewater licenses, by US and Canadian law, is entitled to fish this shared resourse. Despite imaginary lines.

If your problem is supposed charter boats of US origin operating illegally out of Canadian ports, then what does the E-license restriction solve? Nothing! I would support DFO/RCMP or whoever put a stop to it, if in fact it really exsists.

Instead of sportfisherman bickering with Sportfisherman, we should be bickering about the real problems. No matter what flag we fly. This post is not an attack to Sportfishbc or anyone or any agencey directly. (certainly not trying to taunt) Just another point of view.
 
quote:Originally posted by PNW

quote:Originally posted by fishingbc

persoanlly called and e-mailed most Neah Bay charter operators today to notify them of the e-licence change.....they were all set to book tons of "CANADIAN HALIBUT TRIPS" this weekend at the annaul state wide outdoor show .....you shoulda heard some of the reactions.....

I don't know what your animosity is toward US sportfisherman participating in a internationally managed fishery on your side of an imanginary line, Fishingbc. These fish are highly migratory, and know no boundaries. BC already gets over 7 times the quota that we get off of the lower 48. Maybe we should lobby to shift a bunch of that quota to our side of the boarder in exchage to not be able to fish on yours out of our ports? 50/50 split sound fair? And we'll just keep it a one halibut limit on both sides of the board in a conservation effort okay?

Have you even thought about the handfull of pounds of halibut harvested by the handful of legal US charter boats out of Neah and LaPush compared to what your Commercial fleet harvests? Plus bycatch? Do you want me to throw some numbers at you?

Have you seen your Canadian draggers working over the shallow (less than 100 fathoms) banks along the boarder where large biomassses of Pacific Halibut exsist? Did you know that it is illegal to retain Trawl-caught halibut in all waters? Have you emailed the operators and owners of those vessels that waste the resourse and destroy the habitat with virtually no economic benifit what so ever, the way you emailed the legal charter operators from Neah?

Did you know that some of the NB charter operators are on the WDFW groundfish advisory board. And were well aware of this regulation change, probably before you were? Did you also know that many of these same charter operators were instumental in Yelloweye protection policies here in WA that limited their own fishing oportunity? (An example would be by supporting and pushing to get the groundfish closure extended further south to protect large populations of Yelloweye even though it meant giving up some of the very productive Halibut and Lingcod fishing that exsists within the expanded boundary?

Be hosest about your emails. Post them here. Post how you did not just politely inform charter operators of the news that they were already well aware of. Post your emails on how you taunted them!

Well before the online license was available, we've always gotten our licenses in person to fish 123. And so were the customers of NB charter vessels. We will continue to do just that, as that anyone willing to pay for a DFO tidewater licenses, by US and Canadian law, is entitled to fish this shared resourse. Despite imaginary lines.

If your problem is supposed charter boats of US origin operating illegally out of Canadian ports, then what does the E-license restriction solve? Nothing! I would support DFO/RCMP or whoever put a stop to it, if in fact it really exsists.

Instead of sportfisherman bickering with Sportfisherman, we should be bickering about the real problems. No matter what flag we fly. This post is not an attack to Sportfishbc or anyone or any agencey directly. (certainly not trying to taunt) Just another point of view.

First off the imaginary line you refer to is an international border, (homeland security ????)

commercial harvest....one word ALASKA

Taunting....what the &^%$#%^&& is a 'CANADIAN HALIBUT CHARTER OUT OF NEAH BAY....who taunting who.....

hard copy licences going south....closing the loopholes is a priority on this side....

the e-licence change had nothing to do with anything other than Neah Bay charter boats

Illegal guiding on this side....read the posts...we are all making it up....
 
quote:Originally posted by PNW

quote:Originally posted by fishingbc

persoanlly called and e-mailed most Neah Bay charter operators today to notify them of the e-licence change.....they were all set to book tons of "CANADIAN HALIBUT TRIPS" this weekend at the annaul state wide outdoor show .....you shoulda heard some of the reactions.....

I don't know what your animosity is toward US sportfisherman participating in a internationally managed fishery on your side of an imanginary line, Fishingbc. These fish are highly migratory, and know no boundaries. BC already gets over 7 times the quota that we get off of the lower 48. Maybe we should lobby to shift a bunch of that quota to our side of the boarder in exchage to not be able to fish on yours out of our ports? 50/50 split sound fair? And we'll just keep it a one halibut limit on both sides of the board in a conservation effort okay?

Have you even thought about the handfull of pounds of halibut harvested by the handful of legal US charter boats out of Neah and LaPush compared to what your Commercial fleet harvests? Plus bycatch? Do you want me to throw some numbers at you?

Have you seen your Canadian draggers working over the shallow (less than 100 fathoms) banks along the boarder where large biomassses of Pacific Halibut exsist? Did you know that it is illegal to retain Trawl-caught halibut in all waters? Have you emailed the operators and owners of those vessels that waste the resourse and destroy the habitat with virtually no economic benifit what so ever, the way you emailed the legal charter operators from Neah?

Did you know that some of the NB charter operators are on the WDFW groundfish advisory board. And were well aware of this regulation change, probably before you were? Did you also know that many of these same charter operators were instumental in Yelloweye protection policies here in WA that limited their own fishing oportunity? (An example would be by supporting and pushing to get the groundfish closure extended further south to protect large populations of Yelloweye even though it meant giving up some of the very productive Halibut and Lingcod fishing that exsists within the expanded boundary?

Be hosest about your emails. Post them here. Post how you did not just politely inform charter operators of the news that they were already well aware of. Post your emails on how you taunted them!

Well before the online license was available, we've always gotten our licenses in person to fish 123. And so were the customers of NB charter vessels. We will continue to do just that, as that anyone willing to pay for a DFO tidewater licenses, by US and Canadian law, is entitled to fish this shared resourse. Despite imaginary lines.

If your problem is supposed charter boats of US origin operating illegally out of Canadian ports, then what does the E-license restriction solve? Nothing! I would support DFO/RCMP or whoever put a stop to it, if in fact it really exsists.

Instead of sportfisherman bickering with Sportfisherman, we should be bickering about the real problems. No matter what flag we fly. This post is not an attack to Sportfishbc or anyone or any agencey directly. (certainly not trying to taunt) Just another point of view.

First off the imaginary line you refer to is an international border, (homeland security ????)

commercial harvest....one word ALASKA

Taunting....what the &^%$#%^&& is a 'CANADIAN HALIBUT CHARTER OUT OF NEAH BAY....who taunting who.....

hard copy licences going south....closing the loopholes is a priority on this side....

the e-licence change had nothing to do with anything other than Neah Bay charter boats

Illegal guiding on this side....read the posts...we are all making it up....
 
PNW, if you want someone to be honest and post their emails - why don't you be HONEST and say which charter company you represent as you obviously received one of these emails.
 
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