BC Coast Pilot
Well-Known Member
Agreed × 2......but we should be directing our government to not compromise safety in areas where they have not considered it because of lack of experience or knowledge
DFO Announces further SRKW Restrictions
- Thread starter cohochinook
- Start date
The only marine traffic they will be limiting is pleasure craft as the rest like oil tankers that upon collision with orcas actually kill them on impact are growing in numbers. Rules for thee not for me.
BC Coast Pilot
Well-Known Member
What typically happens on a deep draft ship when underway is the positive pressure wave on the bow becomes an area that pushes things away so its hard to hit a marine mammal and there is no risk of collision. Marine mammals like dolphins,porpoises and whales play in this area and surf on the wave. What is of concern is the acoustic disturbance. Consider high speed ferries like our BCF fleet are more likely to cause a whale strike than a tanker or my little fishing boat.
ship happens
Crew Member
News feed this morning had this article
How did they dwindled to a population 70 when they have been on the rise since they stole 40 whales and sold them to seaworld? people actually believe this crap unreal
How did they dwindled to a population 70 when they have been on the rise since they stole 40 whales and sold them to seaworld? people actually believe this crap unreal
EXCELLENT and right-on-the-spot post Steeler! 
It's actually the bulbous bow ships that collect whales every once in a while (referencing VF's post), and occasionally a prop boat cuts a whale w the prop. As far as numbers go wrt population size - pretty low. There's only 1 example for the SRKW that I am aware of:
And to be honest - was it actually the ship strike that killed the whale - or was the whale suffering from something else and couldn't move out of the way fast enuff?
Since orcas can swim as fast as 56 km/h or 30kts, and most commercial cargo vessels travel at ~20kts or less (ships transiting the management area
less - but on average container ships and cruise ships are a bit faster) and are noisy - one would think it would be relatively easy for an aware orca to simply move a few 10s of meters out of the way.
And it is my understanding that that DFO does NOT regulate ship speed and cannot legally regulate ship speed thru fishing regs.
INSTEAD Transport Canada can thru the Vessel Operation Restriction Regulations (VORR) under the Canada Shipping Act and after Consultation
and being posted in the Canada Gazette. Port Authorities can also regulate speed within their tenure as described in their letters patent thru the Operations Regulations under the Marine Act.
QUESTION: Did the participants in this call remember if DFO described under what regulation/act how those proposed speed reductions would occur? and if they were "voluntary"?
Fisheries notices do not have any regulatory/legal authority to force any boat to restrict speed.
IN ADDITION: I remember that in the last round of the posted Emergency Protection Order that created the Interim Sanctuary Zones off Pender Island and Saturna Islands - there were exceptions for emergency situations. Sounds like it fits here also after reading the previous posts. When the proposed 2022 Emergency Protection Orders are posted in the Gazette - there is typically a 30 day consultation period. May be the time then to bring-up the safety issue.
It's actually the bulbous bow ships that collect whales every once in a while (referencing VF's post), and occasionally a prop boat cuts a whale w the prop. As far as numbers go wrt population size - pretty low. There's only 1 example for the SRKW that I am aware of:
And to be honest - was it actually the ship strike that killed the whale - or was the whale suffering from something else and couldn't move out of the way fast enuff?
Since orcas can swim as fast as 56 km/h or 30kts, and most commercial cargo vessels travel at ~20kts or less (ships transiting the management area
less - but on average container ships and cruise ships are a bit faster) and are noisy - one would think it would be relatively easy for an aware orca to simply move a few 10s of meters out of the way.
And it is my understanding that that DFO does NOT regulate ship speed and cannot legally regulate ship speed thru fishing regs.
INSTEAD Transport Canada can thru the Vessel Operation Restriction Regulations (VORR) under the Canada Shipping Act and after Consultation
and being posted in the Canada Gazette. Port Authorities can also regulate speed within their tenure as described in their letters patent thru the Operations Regulations under the Marine Act.
QUESTION: Did the participants in this call remember if DFO described under what regulation/act how those proposed speed reductions would occur? and if they were "voluntary"?
Fisheries notices do not have any regulatory/legal authority to force any boat to restrict speed.
IN ADDITION: I remember that in the last round of the posted Emergency Protection Order that created the Interim Sanctuary Zones off Pender Island and Saturna Islands - there were exceptions for emergency situations. Sounds like it fits here also after reading the previous posts. When the proposed 2022 Emergency Protection Orders are posted in the Gazette - there is typically a 30 day consultation period. May be the time then to bring-up the safety issue.
BC Coast Pilot
Well-Known Member
I believe we're going at this all backwards. Instead of spending all this dough on enforcement, thinking that rules at a terminal fishery will fix things. Why aren't we spending twice, ten times as much on the front end at the hatcheries,creeks, rivers, estuaries? No one wants to talk about the incompetance at Jordan River for example, incompetence from Industry and government alike. A river that once flourished, full with fish, now devoid of life.
The Jordan River was once brimming with salmon, until three industries changed it forever
Restoration efforts are slow going, but changes in industrial practice could help bring it back
www.capitaldaily.ca
BC Coast Pilot
Well-Known Member
You are 100% on the bulbous bow collecting the odd whale, however they are usually already in a state of necrosis and high floating when collected. Good Questions you need to ask. I'm glad you're listening. Thanks.EXCELLENT and right-on-the-spot post Steeler!
It's actually the bulbous bow ships that collect whales every once in a while (referencing VF's post), and occasionally a prop boat cuts a whale w the prop. As far as numbers go wrt population size - pretty low. There's only 1 example for the SRKW that I am aware of:
And to be honest - was it actually the ship strike that killed the whale - or was the whale suffering from something else and couldn't move out of the way fast enuff?
Since orcas can swim as fast as 56 km/h or 30kts, and most commercial cargo vessels travel at ~20kts or less (ships transiting the management area
less - but on average container ships and cruise ships are a bit faster) and are noisy - one would think it would be relatively easy for an aware orca to simply move a few 10s of meters out of the way.
And it is my understanding that that DFO does NOT regulate ship speed and cannot legally regulate ship speed thru fishing regs.
INSTEAD Transport Canada can thru the Vessel Operation Restriction Regulations (VORR) under the Canada Shipping Act and after Consultation
and being posted in the Canada Gazette. Port Authorities can also regulate speed within their tenure as described in their letters patent thru the Operations Regulations under the Marine Act.
QUESTION: Did the participants in this call remember if DFO described under what regulation/act how those proposed speed reductions would occur? and if they were "voluntary"?
Fisheries notices do not have any regulatory/legal authority to force any boat to restrict speed.
IN ADDITION: I remember that in the last round of the posted Emergency Protection Order that created the Interim Sanctuary Zones off Pender Island and Saturna Islands - there were exceptions for emergency situations. Sounds like it fits here also after reading the previous posts. When the proposed 2022 Emergency Protection Orders are posted in the Gazette - there is typically a 30 day consultation period. May be the time then to bring-up the safety issue.
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Still falls under enforcement though as industry should by law and damage deposit be required to clean up after themselves or not make a mess in the first place.Why should the taxpayer be required to clan up the mess?
BC Coast Pilot
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately in this case the Jordan River was declared "clean" in 1993 I believe by no other than SNC Lavalin
mac_davy
Active Member
" Murray said her goal as minister is to leave as many fish in the ocean as possible and to grow as much ocean vegetation as possible to combat climate change — and that harvesters would have to accept a sacrifice as part of climate change efforts. "
Joyce is dedicated vegan, and climate alarmist, she has no business managing our resources for her own personal political agenda, She is in direct conflict with her job as minister.
Joyce is dedicated vegan, and climate alarmist, she has no business managing our resources for her own personal political agenda, She is in direct conflict with her job as minister.
There is no way DFO or even Coast Guard can enforce this 10kt rule near Renfrew. Or do you think they sit on a rock on the Westcoast trail with a radar gun? One of these BS "we gotta do something" measures.
As for power of advocacy; not a day goes by that there isn't someone from Vancouver Aquarium or Watershed Watch or some other radical enviro organization on record on the radio or TV demanding 12 months fishing closures in BC or what not. Why isn't SFI or others daily on radio or TV if we are so strong in numbers and economic power!!???
As for power of advocacy; not a day goes by that there isn't someone from Vancouver Aquarium or Watershed Watch or some other radical enviro organization on record on the radio or TV demanding 12 months fishing closures in BC or what not. Why isn't SFI or others daily on radio or TV if we are so strong in numbers and economic power!!???
ship happens
Crew Member
What are we going to leave to our offspring? Keys to a villa in mexico?
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BC Coast Pilot
Well-Known Member
The problem is if you allow it in this zone it will eventually encompass the entire area the strait of Georgia and all of Juan de Fuca including sooke
BC Coast Pilot
Well-Known Member
Had a chance to look up the formulas for swell speed at Swiftsure. Some incredible numbers.
Doesn't exactly look viable to maintain 10 knots. The swell travels at 30 knots with a 10 second period which is an average condition we work in. Table at top right. ref. Oceanography of the British Columbia Coast published by Dept. Of Fisheries and Oceans
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searun
Well-Known Member
Absolutely, and as noted there are exceptions for conditions...I'll have my day in court explaining to a judge why under those types of conditions it was necessary to run my vessel at speeds higher than 10 kts....and expect to win every time. One would hope the C&P folks wouldn't be dumb enough to take a run at someone operating in rough sea conditions in a manner where speeds over 10kts were used to dodge the swells. That said, no one's running at mach chicken in those conditions either....we are talking about taking reasonable measures to safely transit an area. Try that in flat calm conditions, and I think you would have a difficult time convincing any judge however.
I think you also mentioned that you planned to write in and provide input to the Transport Canada folks as there is a window for Public Comment once these draft regulations are posted - I hope everyone on this forum takes up that opportunity. Pointless writing it here on a forum - it goes nowhere. There is another mechanism to accomplish amendments.
BC Coast Pilot
Well-Known Member
Ok. But how about this. I'm running from Cowichan bay to Tofino. I leave at 6am, first light..its nice as I pass Sooke and Renfrew but there's a Gale Warning or maybe just 25kts NW for after lunch.....do I a/ keep her going at 20 knots to beat the forecast like a prudent mariner or /b slow down and add an hour to my transit, the wind comes at Gale Force and end up hove to behind some mosquito infested rockpile while being reported overdue....or turn and run with it maybe taking refuge in Renfrew 40 NM astern and now short on fuel....That is the kind of realistic scenario that we deal with.
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