Coated or Bare CannonBalls?

[IronNoggin]

... and minimize electrical fields associated with mixed metals. just some food for thought -

I am a wire guy as in I greatly prefer to run wire over braid off the downriggers. Old School I know, but my decision to do so comes from a long history of success from the Troller doing just that.
And one of the main reasons for doing that is related to "electrical fields". Most folks understand that with the right electrical gradient down below, you can attract fish to your gear. This is not an "Old Wives' Tale", it has rather been well proven off hundreds of commercial trollers and sport rigs.

For that set-up to work, you want your balls to be Naked! Coating them would defeat the creation and control of the proper electrical gradient at depth. Thus for me, it is entirely unlikely I'll ever run coated balls.

Of course many others prefer braid, and I can understand why they would likely prefer the other route...

Cheers,
Nog

 

[GoGreen]

i run wire on my boats as well old school too i guess. However another boat i fish on (sfbc member) wire on the side i use and braid on the other side we have not found a significant difference in the hit ratio with a fair amount of testing.(lots of hours fishing) Some food for thought anyway.

 

[searun]

Honestly, no difference in catch ratio between naked or wearing rubber as long as you run braid. I think the only advantage to rubber is less likely you will scratch the boat if your balls swing to and fro. I gave up wire a long time back, too much trouble and again no difference in catch ratio - I tried running wire and black box against the other side with braid for most of a guiding season and over the long run it made no difference in overall catch rates.

If you are going to invest in rubber, check for quality - not all rubber coating are equal. I've seen some that are so thin they are going to be useless if you drag the bottom off shore - the coating will peel off over time.

 

[seadna]

The black box in salt water has to be one of the biggest pieces of snake oil ever sold to fisherman. 1) The ocean is filled with salt water. 2) Salt water is highly electrically conductive. 3) Salt water is electrically connected to earth ground. Obvious conclusion to anyone with a modest understanding of electricity or physics: Any voltage applied to the down rigger cable goes to zero very, very close to the the point at which the cable enters the water.

 

[lorneparker1]

Honestly, no difference in catch ratio between naked or wearing rubber as long as you run braid. I think the only advantage to rubber is less likely you will scratch the boat if your balls swing to and fro. I gave up wire a long time back, too much trouble and again no difference in catch ratio - I tried running wire and black box against the other side with braid for most of a guiding season and over the long run it made no difference in overall catch rates.

If you are going to invest in rubber, check for quality - not all rubber coating are equal. I've seen some that are so thin they are going to be useless if you drag the bottom off shore - the coating will peel off over time.

Agreed, ive ran both and never seen a difference. I do know some guys that run coated just so they dont have to be constantly grabbing the lead as they are a bit more consious of the negative effects of lead on the human body

 

[Duffer]

I run Bare Balls (that should be the name of a song)

 

[Theb55]

I am a black box believer so no question for me. Plain, no coating. You need the ion release! And keep a wire brush handy to take oxidation off.

 

[reelfast]

everything we put in the water is there to attract fish. so why not take advantage of your cannonball as well?? while lead is hard to paint, i have painted mine a survey green, yikes. i also applied some glow paint to them and top coated them with poly. i don't worry about a fish be 'attracted' to the cannonball any more than to the flasher.

 

[IronNoggin]

The black box in salt water has to be one of the biggest pieces of snake oil ever sold to fisherman. 1) The ocean is filled with salt water. 2) Salt water is highly electrically conductive. 3) Salt water is electrically connected to earth ground. Obvious conclusion to anyone with a modest understanding of electricity or physics: Any voltage applied to the down rigger cable goes to zero very, very close to the the point at which the cable enters the water.

You would have Starved To Death as a Commercial Troller seadna!

That's so far out there as to not even warrant a Grade 10 explanation as to why

And a brief suggestion for those who choose to compare wire and braid off the same rig (either side). Of course you will realize little or no difference! The single wire down below is ALL It Takes to establish an electrical gradient down there (whether for better or worse). The only True Test is to compare a well dialed wired rig against another running straight braid. When "The Bite" is on, there will usually be little in the way of difference. When "Scratching" the difference often becomes Quite Noticeable!

Cheers,
Nog

 

[seadna]

You would have Starved To Death as a Commercial Troller seadna!

That's so far out there as to not even warrant a Grade 10 explanation as to why

And a brief suggestion for those who choose to compare wire and braid off the same rig (either side). Of course you will realize little or no difference! The single wire down below is ALL It Takes to establish an electrical gradient down there (whether for better or worse). The only True Test is to compare a well dialed wired rig against another running straight braid. When "The Bite" is on, there will usually be little in the way of difference. When "Scratching" the difference often becomes Quite Noticeable!

Cheers,
Nog

I'm glad you think that's so funny, but I'd be delighted to hear your Grade 10 (even grade 6 or 12) explanation of why the voltage on the wire is not at ground shortly after the wire enters a very large bath of conductive media connected to ground.

 

[GDW]

Nog is right its been proven on commercial applications a boat that is dialed in with it's voltage catches more fish. Trust me owners of wood fish boats spend 10's of thousands getting copper strapping installed so that can emit a good voltage and try to compete with the aluminum boats.

The difference is small (like 3-5% of your overall catch) but to a commercial fishermen that could be thousands of fish. A sportie would be hard pressed to notice.

 

[tykkyt e blue]

I can try an explaination... dis-similar metals in an ion solution ( our case, seawater ) WILL create an electrical charge from ion transfer.. some metals are more reactive than others ( there is an empircal table to the values )
If I remember right? the voltage created between lead and stainless steel is about .750v
This happens at the ball/wire connection and the potential voltage occurs over the entire surface area of the the two metals
Research into salmonoid response to voltage ( all sorts, by many countries ) indicates an 'affinity' to voltage in the range of .600 to .650v ( again, memory?) higher voltages repel
I believe the 'black box' does not impart voltage to the wire, so much as modulates the voltage create by the galvanic action of the dis-similar metals.
From the reading I did many years ago... I think the attraction/repel of the voltage DOES drop off rapidly with distance from the source (wire/ball) so anyone using long drops from the release clip does not see significant catch rate differences.
I was a firm believer in the black box when I had an aluminum boat, fished relatively shallow and used short drop backs. I tested that boats galvanic voltage and it was very high at .850v with new zincs.
I don't mean to be on a podium - just my experience
As they say... your mileage may vary

 

[Aces]

I have used wire and non coated balls (couldn't bring myself to type the other, lol) for about 26 years and probably won't change.

I don't use a black box but monitor the boat voltage with a multi tester once in a while.

 

[Lipripper]

I can try an explanation... dis-similar metals in an ion solution

Similar to the way a lemon battery works

 

[GDW]

Commercial guys sometimes go wire cable to a copper snubber to the lead ball. Steel reacts with copper which reacts to the lead.

I think if you use a rubber snubber or have another break in the line you lose some of the voltage too.

 

[seadna]

With a Ph.D. in physical chemistry, I don't really have a big problem with understanding that dissimilar metals create a local galvanic effect. What I don't believe at all however, is that by applying a voltage to my down rigger cable that I'm having any effect whatsoever on the end of a wire cable that's immersed in salt water with a lead ball on it 30-250' below the surface of the conductive fluid into which it is immersed. The diagram in my head is the following:
1) The voltage is applied to the cable (typically <1.0V, lets assume 0.8V) and is relative to ground (e.g. ground of the boat which is generally connected to the water through a hull anode).
2) The cable is 100' down with the typical resistance or of a stainless wire (stainless is not a great conductor but is not terrible).
3) The cable surrounded by a conductive medium that has conductivity (in all directions) of 5S/m (=5/[1ohm-m]). Note that this conductive medium (the ocean) is connected to ground and is the same ground as the boat is connected to.

Now explain to me how much of that say 0.8V applied to the cable above the water is actually left at the end of the cable 100' below the surface. The voltage will be dropped through the water to ground and won't arrive at the other end of the cable in saltwater.

 

[Charter Tofino]

With a Ph.D. in physical chemistry, I don't really have a big problem with understanding that dissimilar metals create a local galvanic effect. What I don't believe at all however, is that by applying a voltage to my down rigger cable that I'm having any effect whatsoever on the end of a wire cable that's immersed in salt water with a lead ball on it 30-250' below the surface of the conductive fluid into which it is immersed. The diagram in my head is the following:
1) The voltage is applied to the cable (typically <1.0V, lets assume 0.8V) and is relative to ground (e.g. ground of the boat which is generally connected to the water through a hull anode).
2) The cable is 100' down with the typical resistance or of a stainless wire (stainless is not a great conductor but is not terrible).
3) The cable surrounded by a conductive medium that has conductivity (in all directions) of 5S/m (=5/[1ohm-m]). Note that this conductive medium (the ocean) is connected to ground and is the same ground as the boat is connected to.

Now explain to me how much of that say 0.8V applied to the cable above the water is actually left at the end of the cable 100' below the surface. The voltage will be dropped through the water to ground and won't arrive at the other end of the cable in saltwater.

Pretty damn good grade 10 explanation to me! I'm neutral (pardon the pun) as a lot of good fisherman swear by it even though the science doesn't totally agree.

 

[Rum Buddies]

Nog is right its been proven on commercial applications a boat that is dialed in with it's voltage catches more fish. Trust me owners of wood fish boats spend 10's of thousands getting copper strapping installed so that can emit a good voltage and try to compete with the aluminum boats.

The difference is small (like 3-5% of your overall catch) but to a commercial fishermen that could be thousands of fish. A sportie would be hard pressed to notice.

The thing is with commercial boats is they are generally old,more electronics running, have tons of ******/old wiring and a HUGE amount of wire and lead trailing behind them when compared to a sport boat. Ya commercial guys might need to run black boxes because their boats are leaking electricity all over the place - ever looked at wiring on commercial boats, its down right scary on every boat I've seen.

Comparing commercial boats and sport boats is not exactly apples to apples.

The only True Test is to compare a well dialed wired rig against another running straight braid.

Way too many variables for the test to offer anything meaningful. We've all been out at least once fishing EXACTLY the same gear as a buddy in the same spots and watch as he hooks fish after fish while you get nothing. Then a week later its reversed. Too many factors at play to boil it down to just one.

My personal take is, it doesn't matter. I've had boats where is fully rigged with wire and black box and we caught lots of fish, then I smartened up and ditched the wire - guess what we still caught lots of fish. But ya I can see why it works on commercial boat but I've yet to any proof that it helps sport fishing, besides hunches and bro-science.

 

[JAC]

To me simple with less parts to fail is the best. That's why I use braid no need for wire crimpers, black boxes and those always moving line stop things. I just tie in a big swivel where I want my line to stop they never move so no worries. I then tie 2 leaders from my stopper swivel to my cannon ball clip. I use 2 because if for some reason 1 breaks I have a back up and it has saved 1 ball for me last year. I seem to always lose cannon balls when there are in the air below the boom but with 2 leaders no worries!!

 

[scott craven]

I agree really doesn't matter.
Good fishermen find the fish, present the right bait at the right time.
that's what catches the fish.

P.S. wouldn't trade my braid for all the tea in china.