Climate: LNG in B.C. vs Alberta tarsands

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And the point of your post was?

Written right in there, here I'll show you;

"I'm tired of the hypocrites fighting resource extraction that runs our lives and economies at every turn while gobbling it up"

"consume at that level he can stop saying that others are the problem."

Clear enough?

It's not just GLG and the energy industry, it doesn't matter what we talk about be it forestry, mining, fishing, farming someone will rally against it as they consume the spoils.
 
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http://engage.gov.bc.ca/lnginbc/

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The climate is changing, but is it humankind’s fault? Daniel B. Botkin, professor Emeritus in the Department of Ecology, Evolution, and Marine Biology at University of California Santa Barbara, doesn’t believe so. In the following column, he dissects the conclusions reached by the Union of Concerned Scientists in its report, National Landmarks at Risk, How Rising Seas, Floods, and Wildfires Are Threatening the United States’ Most Cherished Historic Sites.

Well here are his credentials. Go ahead and tell us what is wrong with his facts.



Huh... I don't get what your trying to tell us..
Regardless... Is this where you are getting your science from now?
An Op-ed from a website called the national parks traveler?
Perhaps you could point us to his peer reviewed paper with his theory that global warming is not man made and it does not exist? Until you dig up that paper or for that matter any paper he has written consider this.....
97% of the climate scientists say man made global warming is true and it is very serious. I take that as a serious risk to the future generations that will come after us old men. How much risk are you willing to accept that it is true. Do you think it's 50 / 50 chance that it's true and serious? Perhaps 10 / 90 with the greater chance that it's not true? Even though your team has no science to back up your risk assessment. Let's, just for the sake of argument, take the 10% chance that AGW is true. Would you still take that risk on your families well being? Are they not too precious to be gambling with their future with that level of risk? Consider that you have a great deal of investment in your home and you like me would not consider going cheap on fire insurance. You and I both know that if we had a fire and we were not insured the loss would be devastating. Do you also know that the chance of either of us having our hose burn down is .01%. Why is it that you are so quick to dismiss the risk of AGM and yet you buy fire insurance? Perhaps it's time you canceled that fire insurance and gamble on your family. Let me know when you have done that and I will "change my mind".
 
Written right in there, here I'll show you;

"I'm tired of the hypocrites fighting resource extraction that runs our lives and economies at every turn while gobbling it up"

"consume at that level he can stop saying that others are the problem."

Clear enough?

It's not just GLG and the energy industry, it doesn't matter what we talk about be it forestry, mining, fishing, farming someone will rally against it as they consume the spoils.

X 100.. This is my biggest complaint about this whole subject and I have made that clear on here many times.

Its ironic so many on here have blamed the likes of myself and many others that work in the industry as being the problem yet they know very little about me or my lifestyle. I will just about guarantee you all I leave a smaller footprint in this world in my personnel life than most 10 urban dwellers that are the big yappers on here. I live quite a few miles away from any urban center. My wife and I grow a huge garden we almost refuse to buy package products an add to our landfills. We stay away from chemical induced foods. What I don't hunt or fish we buy from local farmers and butcher ourselves. We can, preserve and grow. We live off the land as much as we can. Yes we drive, yes I use motor vehicles to do my work but I am not a hypocrite about it. I don't point fingers at people or industry as being the evil culprits. I don't want industry to shut down over these over exaggerated claims made by attention grabbing scientist and celebrities. I am a realist !!

It is absolutely sickening to read the garbage you people put up here. Its like having a discussion about life with a teenager,, yes they know the basics of how life works but little real knowledge and oblivious to listen.

you all don't think the majority of the money we spend out here goes into your local economy, you would rather read and believe some Socialist garbage written by a fool that makes up lies about an industry they have very littler knowledge about go ahead,, just proves your fools. By the time I am done this well I will have spent close to $3,000,000.00 of which 80% will go to local businesses for services supplied. Now some of these businesses about 20% are not locally owned they are larger companies that have offices in the local communities but they all employ local people and pay the local taxes. On this pad alone I have 6 wells,, do the math.. 6 wells x 3 mill each is 18 million dollars. that's 10 million into the local economy in about 2 months work. And this is just one job out of how many like it going on up here. Now,, how much have you contributed and your industry contributed in the last while,, even close ?? I doubt it.

Good posts triplenickle its good to see some like minded posters on here now and again, it gets lonely.

Done again for a while.. Back to work now helping prop up "YOUR" economy,, you can thank me later if you want..
 
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GLC thinks this is crap. It is all due to man.



http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141025152717.htm
Climate change caused by ocean, not just atmosphere
Date:
October 25, 2014
Source:
Rutgers University
Summary:
Most of the concerns about climate change have focused on the amount of greenhouse gases that have been released into the atmosphere. A new study reveals another equally important factor in regulating Earth's climate. Researchers say the major cooling of Earth and continental ice build-up in the Northern Hemisphere 2.7 million years ago coincided with a shift in the circulation of the ocean.
 
The likes of many on here is absolutely no different than the crooked TV evangelist that preaches to the people on the evils of sin and instructs them on how to live life all the while having mistresses and prostitutes and steels their money for personal gain,, NO difference what so ever no matter how you spin it.
 
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The likes of many on here is absolutely no different than the crooked TV evangelist that preaches to the people on the evils of sin and instructs them on how to live life all the while having mistresses and prostitutes and steels their money for personal gain,, NO difference what so ever no matter how you spin it.

You need to tone it down LOL...First get it straight. I listen to these posts and comments once in a while. I have a different take. First I am not against industry, so lets get that out of the way. I have been up there and every job from management down can be replaced. Not every jow blow can take that lifestyle, and I totally respect guys that can do that work. It's still the only place I have seen metal fracture under cold weather at -50C in windchill... Its a tough job to be there, and the work camps get lonely when you are away from your family.

I am against pipelines for one main thing is to project your job. You see what most of you don't understand and if you have been following many investors and there conversations you will notice that the shipping of unprocessed bitumen to China is not a good thing. Just like the raw logs the jobs are going to go elsewhere. Why not think long term and what will provide jobs. Lets refine it here! That is why I mainly oppose the pipeline. Second you probably haven't been to Asia. You go there and see how they pollute and ask yourself why we should support that behavior.

Now I get you are in the industry,but when you claim your saving all of Canada that is so way off. Get the record straight I am small business owner. We make a lot of the economy in Canada. As with many and we also contribute haevily to the economy. We have other sectors not just oil and gas. You make it seem like 90% of our tax money comes here... Not so...Alberta isn't center of universe there are other provinces so you know.

Alberta right now is going to be facing challenges ahead .The price of oil is dropping as well as the demand in liquified gas. The problem has always been is we have problem competing in middle east....Even at below $60.00 they can make money, but we can't. That price per barrel drops down below $70.00 we are going to see a huge slowdown like last time...Consolidated projects etc. Massive layoffs. The writing is already on the wall there next year will be tough...

To talk like we are not making climate change is foolish. Those graphs don't lie, and seriously just look at weather... Look at BC weather. Summer drought is worse..Longer season, and we get snow more frequent in winter than we ever have. My hometown Winnipeg sees weather that is totally abnormal compared to years ago... Its obvious we are effecting the weather worldwide by our thirst for fossil fuels. And yes were all guilty of that.

Anyway that my personal belief you can take it anyway you want. I don't want to be painted with same brush that says I hate industry. Totally false. The pipeline makes no sense. Economically and for the environment..Moving Bitumen to China take jobs away from trained Canadians to Asia, and move it through and active earthquake area in BC to speed up China's pollution. That makes no sense at all.
 
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Lol,, after reading my post it looks like I am claiming responsibility for the industry myself which is certainly not my intention. My intention was to bring forth the impact the industry as whole has on your economy here. Is it perfect absolutely not,, but with all honesty,, it would blow your guys minds if you really knew the extent we strive to protect things out here,, it would really open some eyes

Spring your a good man with good intentions,, I respect that.

Did you know that in the end a very little percentage of Bitumen is actually used for an oil product or fuel. The main use for Bitumen is byproduct materials such as plastics, hence the reason China wants it so bad. So really its not burned up as a fossil fuel,, its refined into other products that we all use.
 
Lets refine it here!

Not a bad idea, what kind of public reception do you reckon that proposal will get?

You make it seem like 90% of our tax money comes here... Not so...Alberta isn't center of universe there are other provinces so you know.

Last time I checked there were 2 have provinces and a whole bunch of have nots sucking the tit and biting the hand that feeds.

I agree with where you're coming from, the last thing I want to see is an oil pipeline through the Skeena watershed but it's not the current reality (not just speaking of Gateway).

it would blow your guys minds if you really knew the extent we strive to protect things out here,, it would really open some eyes

The time, effort and money spent doing things the best way possible is staggering, we're the best in the world at what we do we're certainly not a bunch of heathens hell bent on environmental destruction. For all the protester/consumer/hypocrites get your yard in order before you worry about your neighbors. The alternative energy sources to run your household are available today. GLG and AA what's stopping you from adopting them in your personal life? You could be off the grid next week.

With the social license alternative energies have, and their claim to be competitive with traditional sources I can't help but wonder why there aren't more large scale projects? If it's the same cost to the consumer (which is the end question to the average Joe) where are these projects? Why don't some of the multi billion dollar energy companies move forward? The CEO's and shareholders aren't in it for Co2 and dead dinosaurs, they're in it for $$.

The best thing the world could do is stop with all the animal protein production and stop shitting out crotch fruit, enact a 1 child law and slow this runaway train down. With the current population predictions a bit of methane production now won't matter in 50 years anyways. The western world isn't at the heart of the emissions issue globally.
 
So to suggest that governmental policies need to change and to suggest that the country as a whole needs to change and to suggest that the world as a whole needs to change while still living your life within the system the currently exists is hypocritical? You don't really have ANY CLUE what GLG, AA or myself do in our daily lives. For example: I take public transportation frequently to reduce my fuel use and when I don't, I'm usually carpooling with my wife in her diesel Jetta (37mpg in city use). I recycle everything I can. I have temperature setbacks programmed into my home heating. I could go on but I'm certainly not more holy that many. But if I take a long fishing trip, I'm now a hypocrite? To be clear, I think what I, GLG and some others are advocating for is long term societal shifts designed to reduce carbon burning. While each of us alone can do something, the real power is in collective will and collective action. We have less smog, less lead by the roadside and more fuel efficient cars as a direct result of governmental policies that mandated changes in the automotive industry. If you review your history on such matters you'll also find that each time regulations were put into place (like removing lead from gas, requiring catalytic converters, increasing fleet mileage standards, etc), many in industry predicted dire consequences as a result of such regulations. Yet, regulations were implemented and the world continued to function.

I have no doubt that those in the oil industry such as a few on this thread have no desire to pollute the earth. I also have no doubt that the industry is far cleaner now and far more careful in it's practices than it was previously. HOWEVER, I also have no doubt that without governmental regulation, the industry would be far less careful and far dirtier. There is a long history of examples to show that unchecked profit motives will drive behavior in often undesirable directions and this is true in any industry from banking to fossil fuels. Regardless of how clean the industry is now, there is a very real concern about the impact of continued (and increasing worldwide) output of CO2 from fossil fuels on the environment. Yes, WE ALL (and certainly I) contribute to this through our own actions. The real question is "Are there any collective actions that we should and can take to reduce the risk?" Sticking our heads in the sands with regards to the ACTUAL science on climate warming and calling each other hypocrites does little to help.
 
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Great post Seadna!

To be clear (if I haven't already) - this thread is - to me - NOT an indictment nor critique of people working in the fossil fuel industry nor is it avoiding accepting personal responsibility for each of us utilizing fossil fuels in our daily lives. I think everyone on here - whatever colour of political banner we fly - understands and accepts that in our current North American/Western lifestyles - we burn a disproportionate share of fossil fuels. I think we are all well-intended and passionate over our perspectives on what this means to our future generations. This is all a good thing, and it has been a worthwhile and informative debate on this thread for me - at least.

I echo Seadnas comments above. He said it better than I could. The only thing I would add is that the stock market is not a form of governance - even though some people confuse governance mechanisms and economic theory. We need our own government to set appropriate checks and balances on things like environmental protection, risk management, recovering the always ill-liked tax base, reinvesting/supporting in novel technologies and taking the lead on what we - as a collective - need to further ourselves as a civilization. Without governmental support - it is VERY difficult to push ahead with enough individual efforts to create a large enough affordable demand for alternative energy sources and implementation.

The oft-cited economic theory that we should leave the "market" to sort itself out with no government "interference" is only an unsupported theory - one that doesn't hold out in history - or the real world outside the rose-coloured lenses of Harper and his economic henchmen. Nothing is "free"" in this world - especially not the stock market. It is NOT an alternative form of governance.

Seanda has given you a few examples of why we need government to assist in developing markets. It's funny/odd/strange/hypocritical that - in the offices of government, there are legions of registered and unregistered Corporate lobbyists clamouring for government support and leadership to help them expand their industry - yet when it comes to environmental protection and social programs - suddenly - government support is now somehow suddenly too encumbering and we need less government involvement.

The real issue is the bottom line. Corporations, CEOs, and their associated stock portfolios get rich by "externalizing" their costs (like environmental protection and clean-up), while reducing their tax burden - onto us - the taxpayers who can't afford lobbyists.

In the case of alternative energy economies - some other nations - like Denmark, UK, Holland, Iceland, etc. - through government intervention, initiatives and support - have developed a considerable industry and expertise over the renewable energy resources they have in quantities. They have created new jobs and new revenues - including a new tax base - and are profiting from these initiatives.

What has our government done so far, in comparison?

PS: apologies 3x5 for thinking you were employed in the fossil fuel industry.
 
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bg-group-to-delay-planned-b-c-lng-terminal-1.2816948

Tax Season
BG Group to delay planned B.C. LNG terminal
Canadian executive says global gas market is too uncertain to build now
CBC News Posted: Oct 29, 2014 11:47 AM ET Last Updated: Oct 29, 2014 11:47 AM ET

Transfer lines in an LNG terminal in Lusby, Maryland. BG Group has delayed its Prince Rupert, B.C., LNG project.
Transfer lines in an LNG terminal in Lusby, Maryland. BG Group has delayed its Prince Rupert, B.C., LNG project. (Gary Cameron/Reuters)

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British oil and gas producer BG Group PLC says it will be the next decade before it goes ahead with a liquefied natural-gas export terminal in Prince Rupert.

BG Group told regulators last year that it could begin construction on the first phase of an LNG plant next year.

But BG Canada president Madeline Whitaker said that timeline is now uncertain.

B.C. LNG tax rates lower than first promised
B.C. LNG Alliance says LNG boom for B.C. 'not a foregone conclusion'

“We’d always said [construction would begin] as early as 2016, but we now recognize it’ll likely be later, with commercial operations likely beginning early in the next decade,” she said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal.

BG Group’s project is one of 18 proposed for the B.C. coastline, with none yet given a green light.

And the company is now worried about shifting market conditions as more LNG becomes available.

It already has LNG projects in Australia and Brazil and it has marketing agreements with two U.S. terminals.

In reporting third-quarter earnings on Tuesday, it said LNG total operating profit fell four per cent this year $576 million.

Whitaker said BG still sees B.C. as a promising location to ship LNG to China and other emerging markets.

“Our view on long-term demand hasn’t changed,” she said. What is in question is the timing of the Canadian project amid uncertainty in the global gas market.

British Columbia last week issued rules for a royalty regime for LNG in the province that won praise from other potential investors as taxes were lower than expected.
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frances-beinecke/superstorm-sandy-two-year_b_6064992.html

Frances Beinecke Become a fan
President, NRDC
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Superstorm Sandy Two Years Later: New York Is Becoming More Resilient But More Is Needed
Posted: 10/28/2014 8:33 pm EDT Updated: 1 hour ago
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Two years ago this week, Hurricane Sandy came barreling up the East Coast, killing 117 Americans and damaging hundreds of thousands of homes along the way. Here in my hometown of New York, it delivered an 11-foot storm surge and a reminder that climate change wasn't just a challenge for the future. On this anniversary, we honor those who lost their lives to the storm. And we acknowledge the thousands of survivors who suffered losses from the storm and who have yet to be made whole.

The storm waters have long since receded, but Sandy left an indelible mark. It made climate resiliency a priority in our region.

Many residents now recognize that climate change makes us more vulnerable to higher storm surges, frequent flooding and other extreme events. We have to brace for this new reality, and fortunately, we have begun.

2014-10-29-8148642731_86066dac14_z2AveC.jpg
Avenue C and 14th Street during Hurricane Sandy. Photo credit: Matthew Kraus

From reinforcing beaches in the Rockaways to installing generators at the Coney Island Houses and sealing holes in the subway system, New York is fortifying our ability to withstand future storm surges.

Yet much more remains to be done. Dozens of sound recommendations in Governor Cuomo's 2100 Commission Report and New York City's Special Initiative for Rebuilding and Resilience Report must still be completed. And even as we make our neighborhoods stronger, we must also confront climate change at its source: pollution from fossil fuels.

There is no single fix that can make our region more resilient in the face of climate change. But by working in our communities and at the national level, we can defuse this threat. Here are six areas where additional attention is greatly warranted.

1. Use Natural Barriers to Protect Our Coasts
Natural systems like wetlands, dunes and oyster reefs form a powerful first line of defense against coastal storms and regional flooding. Officials are recognizing the wisdom of adding soft edges to our coastlines: the projects chosen in the federal government's Rebuild by Design initiative will add natural protections in the waters off Staten Island's south shore, plant large new oyster reefs in New York Harbor and safeguard the South Bronx shoreline. Such projects need additional funding and political support to ensure they are completed.

2. Offer Floodplain Buyouts to Relocate Residents to Safer Grounds-
Buyout programs deliver three important benefits. Homeowners get paid fair-market value to move out of harm's way. Neighborhoods gain green spaces that serve as natural sponges for storm water. And the community saves money by reducing the need to repeatedly rebuild after each destructive storm. Governor Cuomo advanced floodplain buyouts in three Staten Island communities, and property owners in nearby communities are calling for additional buyouts. New York should expand these programs and make buyouts a permanent part of the state's resiliency arsenal.

3. Expand the Region's Green Infrastructure
Green roofs, roadside plantings, porous pavement, and sidewalk gardens have been proven to reduce flooding. They absorb rainwater before it swamps the streets and sewage systems. They also add green space to neighborhoods and enhance property values. New York City just announced it is building 2000 sidewalk gardens to aid in storm water capture. And New York State has taken steps to fund green infrastructure projects. Yet officials could do so much more--from using State Revolving Funds for large-scale green projects in flood zones to strengthening storm water management standards.

4. Update Floodplain Mapping
The Federal Emergency Management Agency floodplain maps are vital to protecting the public from future climate related storm surges. A recent NRDC analysis showed that 290,000 New Yorkers were inundated by Sandy floodwaters even though their properties were not included on FEMA's 100 year floodplain map. New FEMA maps produced after Sandy more accurately illustrate New York City's flood risk, but still fail to account for future risk from sea level rise.

5. Reform Federal Flood Insurance Program
One area still in need of major reform is the National Flood Insurance Program. Sandy showed how inadequate it is in the face of climate change. Currently the program gives generous discounts to some floodplain property owners, making it hard for people to grasp the risks they face -- and catching them by surprise when flood strikes. The program must be updated to make insurance prices reflect the risk and cost of flooding. This can be done while still providing a safety net for those in need -- including expanded buyout programs, longer transition periods for properties newly identified within flood zones and assistance to low- and middle-income homeowners.

6. Reduce Climate Change Pollution
Our area has already started reducing the pollution that causes climate change. New York and Connecticut belong to the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative to cut carbon emissions and New York City has been a leader in energy efficiency. But we can do more to tap our area's clean energy resources. And we can help tackle pollution at the national level. In June, the EPA proposed the first national limits on carbon from power plants -- the largest source of these dangerous emissions in the US. Click here to tell the Obama Administration you support strong limits on carbon pollution.
 
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/10/28/3585388/australia-airlines-carbon-tax/

Three Airlines In Australia Just Inadvertently Demonstrated That Carbon Taxes Work
BY JEFF SPROSS POSTED ON OCTOBER 28, 2014 AT 12:50 PM UPDATED: OCTOBER 28, 2014 AT 4:19 PM
facebook icon 2,202Share This twitter icon 337Tweet This "Three Airlines In Australia Just Inadvertently Demonstrated That Carbon Taxes Work" Share: facebook icon twitter icon
A Qantas airplane at Melbourne Tullamarine Airport. Qantas is one of three airlines involved in the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission's investigation.
A Qantas airplane at Melbourne Tullamarine Airport. Qantas is one of three airlines involved in the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission’s investigation.
CREDIT: SHUTTERSTOCK
Three airlines are in the hot seat in Australia, after failing to pass claimed savings on to their customers in the wake of a repealed carbon tax.
Back in July of this year, Australia axed its $23-per-metric-ton carbon tax. ($20.39 per metric ton in U.S. dollars.) The repeal included provisions that require companies to pass on the savings in reduced costs to their customers, and give the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) new powers to ensure they do so.
When the tax originally began operation in 2012, three airlines — Qantas, Virgin Australia, and Regional Express — claimed it would add millions to their costs, and they would have to pass the additional burden on to consumers in the form of higher ticket prices. But Melbourne’s Herald Sun reported on Tuesday that when he tax died, all three airlines reversed their position, claiming “they had absorbed the costs and there were no savings to be found.”
ACCC head Rod Sims is reportedly unsatisfied by the response to an initial set of letters, asking the airlines for an explanation. “The ACCC expects that if domestic airlines fully or partially recovered carbon tax costs… cost savings will be passed through to customers,” the Commission told the Herald Sun. “Those price increases now need to become price decreases, on the basis of those earlier claims,” added Bruce Billson, Australia’s Small Business Minister.
The most suspicious circumstance is arguably that of Qantas, which paid out $106 million ($94 million in U.S. dollars) to the carbon tax in 2013, and placed a “carbon tax surcharge’’ on its tickets, according to reports. The airline now claims it absorbed that $106 million bill, “and that has been clear in our financial results over the past two years.” Regional Express initially claimed the carbon tax would cost it $2 million in the first year and this would require adding $2 to each ticket. But on Monday the airline said it never went through with that plan. As for Virgin Australia, it said the tax cost it $47.9 million ($42.47 in U.S. dollars) which it did not attempt to recoup from customers, and that it is cooperating with the ACCC’s request for information.
So it’s something of a he-said-she-said situation, but the takeaway is straightforward: either the airlines are currently overcharging their customers, or the carbon tax was never a significant economic burden for the airlines to begin with.
There’s a fair amount of evidence for the latter possibility. Because they simply put a price on carbon emissions and then allow individuals and firms to decide for themselves how to react to that price, carbon taxes encourage everyone to find the most cost-effective reductions that work for them — effectively turning the entire economy into a giant laboratory for finding the most efficient emission cuts. A recent analysis out of Britain suggests that this kind of carbon reduction can force firms to find new efficiencies and improvements in their business models. This grows the economy and adds jobs, even before second-order benefits like worker health improvements are factored into the analysis. All of which is why a large sweep of economists and policy experts across the ideological spectrum favor a carbon tax as a way to tackle greenhouse gas emissions.
Furthermore, Australia plowed much of the revenue from its carbon tax back into its economy, through other tax cuts and various rebates to households to compensate for any increase in energy costs. Economic models regularly show that this approach effectively eliminates any drag from the tax on the economy as a whole, and can actually leave the distribution of income more equitable than it was before. The Canadian province of British Columbia has had a carbon tax of this sort since 2008, and all evidence so far shows its economy is doing fine, businesses are flourishing, and carbon emissions are decreasing along with fossil fuel use.
Research by the Centre for Climate Economics and Policy at Australian National University suggested the carbon tax successfully cut the country’s emissions by 0.8 percent during its first year — the biggest one-year drop in 24 years of record-keeping.
 
http://www.vancouversun.com/technol...ate+change+Pembina+Report/10328677/story.html

Environmental benefits of LNG exaggerated in absence of strong policies to combat climate change: Pembina Report


BY LARRY PYNN, VANCOUVER SUN OCTOBER 27, 2014

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STORYPHOTOS ( 3 )


The basic physics of LNG - A demonstration about what happens to the environment when LNG, methane gas spills or burns.
The environmental benefits of LNG exports are being exaggerated in the absence of strong policies to combat climate change, a report Monday by the Pembina Institute concludes.

The report seeks to put the lie to the B.C. government’s claim in its February 2014 throne speech that exporting LNG is the “greatest single step British Columbia can take to fight climate change.”

Proponents of LNG terminals and pipelines have also used their environmental assessment applications to argue that greenhouse gas emissions from their projects are not significant, the report finds. The primary argument is that LNG exports allow reductions in coal use for electricity generation in Asia, leading to lower greenhouse gas emissions.

The report, funded by the Pacific Institute for Climate Solutions, generally accepts the position that liquefied natural gas results in fewer greenhouse gases than coal. But it also warns that pitting one energy source against the other in isolation provides a skewed view of LNG’s benefits.

“The overall mix of natural gas, coal, nuclear, renewable energy and energy efficiency determines overall GHG emissions, and considering natural gas and coal in isolation misses this bigger picture,” it concludes.

The report cites three main shifts in climate change policies required by nations producing and consuming natural gas to “give the world an acceptable chance of avoiding” warming by two degrees Celsius. They include reduced demand for all fossil fuels; more demand for renewable and nuclear energy; and less overall energy demand because of increasing energy efficiency and conservation.

(The two-degree avoidance target was formally adopted at the United Nations Copenhagen Climate Change Conference in 2009.)

If these policies are implemented, long-term projections for natural gas demand would peak around 2030 and drop below current levels by mid-century, the report predicts. That would involve stabilizing atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases at 450 parts per million.

In the absence of such policies, natural gas demand continues to increase beyond 2030 — until the end of the century in some models. Under a business-as-usual scenario, concentrations could reach 650 to 850 parts per million by 2100.

“In this scenario, natural gas, like other fossil fuels, does not contribute to a transition to a low-carbon economy, but rather reinforces the likely outcome of dangerous climate change,” the report concluded.

“Because these policies are not currently in place, claiming that natural gas, and specifically LNG from B.C., is a climate solution is inaccurate. Making more natural gas available is unlikely to change that conclusion, unless the current gulf in international policy is bridged.”

Communications officer David Karn released a statement on behalf of the Ministry of Environment, saying B.C. is an international climate action leader through initiatives such as the carbon tax and that “global energy systems are large and complex, and take time to change.

“Preventing other countries from accessing low-cost, reliable energy as they begin to develop is not what we believe in,” the statement said. “Supplying the cleanest energy products we can contributes to global development and fighting global climate change.”

The B.C. LNG Developers Alliance did not immediately respond to the report.

To increase the likelihood that LNG from the province can contribute to global efforts to avoid two degrees of warming, the report notes, the province should: apply a consistent, evidence-based, approach in assessing energy exports; strengthen domestic efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from natural gas and LNG development; and play an increasingly proactive role on climate change and global management of methane from burning natural gas.

The report was written by the B.C. office of the Pembina Institute, an Alberta-based environmental think-tank working toward clean-energy solutions in Canada.

The Pacific Institute for Climate Solutions, created in 2008 with a major endowment from the B.C. Environment Ministry, is hosted and led by the University of Victoria in collaboration with Simon Fraser University, University of B.C., and University of Northern B.C.

lpynn@vancouversun.com

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun
 
http://www.vancouverobserver.com/ne...ect-granted-environmental-assessment-approval
Coastal GasLink pipeline project granted environmental assessment approval
The ministers issued an Environmental Assessment Certificate to the $4.7-billion project with 32 legally enforceable conditions.
Sindhu Dharmarajah Oct 24th, 2014
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Photo of BC LNG Engagement Dialogue in June by Province of British Columbia via
Photo of BC LNG Engagement Dialogue in June by Province of British Columbia via Flickr
Natural Gas Development Minister Rich Coleman and Environment Minister Mary Polak issued an Environmental Assessment Certificate to Coastal GasLink Pipeline Ltd. for the Coastal GasLink Pipeline project.

The ministers issued the certificate to the $4.7-billion project – located in northern BC, starting near Dawson Creek and ending in Kitimat – with legally enforceable conditions, according to a press release. This will enable them to “ensure the project will be constructed, operated and decommissioned in a way that ensures that no significant adverse effects are likely to occur, with the exception of adverse effects on caribou and from greenhouse gas emissions.”

Following consultation and input from Aboriginal groups, government agencies, communities and the public, the ministers drew up 32 legally binding conditions that Coastal GasLink must meet.

Some of Key conditions for the project require Coastal GasLink to:

develop a greenhouse gas management plan that includes adherence to the Ministry of Natural Gas Development’s guidance on Best Available Techniques Economically Achievable, regulatory requirements to report on greenhouse gas emissions and site-specific mitigations;

mitigate effects on caribou by avoiding sensitive caribou habitat wherever possible, avoiding increased impacts from predators and providing up to $1.5 million to fund caribou and predator monitoring work;

prevent mortality risks to grizzly bears from displacement and disturbance and contribute up to $0.5 million to support the conservation and management of regional grizzly bear populations;

identify areas of old growth forest for new protection to replace currently-protected old growth forest affected by the project at final route selection;

ensure that marketable timber is salvaged for commercial use;

continue to consult with Aboriginal groups on the project, including opportunities to participate in monitoring programs during project construction; and

develop and implement a social and economic effects management plan to ensure strong engagement with local governments to minimize effects on community infrastructure and services.
Coastal GasLink also proposed a number of significant route changes during the environmental assessment after the feedback process. Some of the reasoning for the alternate routes involves reducing corridor length within caribou ranges and a number of major river crossings, avoiding parks and protected areas and steering away from critical habitat for the white sturgeon.

The natural gas transmission pipeline is expected to operate for at least 30 years, and it will require various federal, provincial and local government permits.
 
More finger pointing, so now it's the governments fault that these existing technologies haven't been adopted by the most vocal? AA and Seadna, do you guys need the government to tell you what choices to make in your personal lives? It seems like you guys have most of the answers already. Where's the solar panels, small wind turbines, geothermal, heat pumps, and electric vehicles etc in your lives? I'll tell you where, you don't want them, you want to burn fossil fuels in your trucks and boats so you can go play and limit out on the sockeye coming down the inside. Ironically the only reason they were there this year is the warmer water outside. Some of what you type makes sense, what it doesn't make is a lick of difference. Go ahead and adopt these technologies in your daily lives, be a trendsetter stop wanking on about needing the government to tell you what to do!

AA you gotta pay more attention buddy, we've had many an exchange on here with me explaining how things work in Northeastern BC where I work in the natural gas side of the energy industry. Where's your answer to the earlier question I left in bold in post 669?

Seadna I do have a very good idea what GLG does, if you too had been paying attention you'd have seen the posts between us detailing the steps we've each made in our personal lives. GLG just hasn't exactly lived up to what he claims. He claims one thing in here to maintain his position on the horse then does the opposite, that's part of where the hypocrisy comment came from. I then get frustrated when he tells others they're the problem. This current system we live within does allow for people to be off the grid if they so CHOSE. You could actually make money off it selling back and you don't need the government to tell you to do it!!! More government is the last thing we need, it's about personal choices and thankfully I'm at peace with mine.
 
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You're the confused one in this case, you fully missed the point of my post....If you'd been paying attention you'd know I don't work in the oil sands.

PS: apologies 3x5 for thinking you were employed in the fossil fuel industry.

AA you gotta pay more attention buddy, we've had many an exchange on here with me explaining how things work in Northeastern BC where I work in the natural gas side of the energy industry. Where's your answer to the earlier question I left in bold in post 669?.

So - natural gas is not a "fossil fuel"? yes I am confused now. Thanks for asking.

I do what I can with the resources I have available, 3x5 - and what I can afford - like most everyone else. I walk back and forth to work. Does that count?
 
More finger pointing, so now it's the governments fault that these existing technologies haven't been adopted by the most vocal?
If that's what you think I wrote, you're reading something different. I've indicated that I am doing many things within the current system to reduce my carbon footprint. I have also admitted that I'm not going to give up fishing. What I wrote boils down to the following - Global warming caused by man-made CO2 is a problem. It's a large and worldwide problem and it's going to get worse. This science agrees on. To solve such a problem requires collective action. To my knowledge the best way for collective action to be taken is through governmental policy. I view government as they way that we (the people) take collective action. I'm not sure why you see that as "finger pointing".

AA and Seadna, do you guys need the government to tell you what choices to make in your personal lives?

That is a huge stretch. Of course not. But even if I used zero carbon, it would have near zero impact on the larger problem. The larger problem requires collective action and as I've already said, I don't see how that happens without government. I don't see fossil fuels going away anytime soon. No realist does. What I do hope for is collective action that reduces our collective usage over time. I can say that my personal fossil fuel usage over the past 10 years has dropped by more than 30% relative to what I used to use. This is due to a combination of using public transportation, having a much more fuel efficient car, reducing the total number of trips to the coast in my truck (mooring the boat and driving the car), fishing closer to port when fish are available there, turning down the thermostat, recycling more and generally buying less.


It seems like you guys have most of the answers already. Where's the solar panels, small wind turbines, geothermal, heat pumps, and electric vehicles etc in your lives? I'll tell you where, you don't want them, you want to burn fossil fuels in your trucks and boats so you can go play and limit out on the sockeye coming down the inside. Ironically the only reason they were there this year is the warmer water outside. Some of what you type makes sense, what it doesn't make is a lick of difference. Go ahead and adopt these technologies in your daily lives, be a trendsetter stop wanking on about needing the government to tell you what to do!
Again you miss the point. We require collective action to solve big problems. A great example of this is public plumbing systems (which many of us in cities take for granted). Once scientists came to understand the disease carrying capacity of human waste how did that convert into better public health? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't by the scientists and those who believe in science being the only ones to carefully dispose of their own feces. Eventually collective (read governmental) action was taken to create the huge infrastructure and associated regulations that we now have for human waste.

AA you gotta pay more attention buddy, we've had many an exchange on here with me explaining how things work in Northeastern BC where I work in the natural gas side of the energy industry. Where's your answer to the earlier question I left in bold in post 669?

Seadna I do have a very good idea what GLG does, if you too had been paying attention you'd have seen the posts between us detailing the steps we've each made in our personal lives. GLG just hasn't exactly lived up to what he claims. He claims one thing in here to maintain his position on the horse then does the opposite, that's part of where the hypocrisy comment came from. I then get frustrated when he tells others they're the problem. This current system we live within does allow for people to be off the grid if they so CHOSE. You could actually make money off it selling back and you don't need the government to tell you to do it!!! More government is the last thing we need, it's about personal choices and thankfully I'm at peace with mine.
See the above comments (and the sewage example) about how individual action often doesn't solve big societal problems.
 
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GLG glad to see you're consistent, still up on the high horse preaching like your **** doesn't stink. Carry on consuming, carry on putting new/more cars on the road, carry on with multiple fishing trips hundreds of kms from home. Make sure you get your limit each time like you posted in the past in the Browns Bay thread, take as much of the resource as you can.

https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/Cour...af8e89c8e!2m2!1d-125.374062!2d50.162006?hl=en

You are as much a part of the problem as anyone else, don't forget where you chose to live and what it takes to get consumables to you. Keep feeding the machine while posting here as if it makes a difference. lol This thread is such a silly circle jerk.

Sad really what you post sometimes....... Admin must be busy.
Yup guilty... 2 trips to Browns Bay.. Our (2 guys) total take was 8 sockeye and (3 guys) 6 chum at the derby. Yea right I'm hard on the resource..... I fished the rest of the year close to home.

Here is the thing... you don't have to be carbon free yet but we all have to live up to our commitments to use less. BC was heading in the right direction and we were doing great by reducing, on average, 17% below our 2005 fuel usage. I posted up the numbers several pages back. The problem is this new course with the expansion of the fossil fuel industry. That will wipe out all of our combined efforts to lower our carbon footprint. Estimates suggest it will be like adding another Vancouvers worth of CO2 into the air every year. All that carbon tax we have been paying for all those years, the value of that will be gone in short order. Think about that. The whole province, citizens and companies have invested in doing the right thing and poof.... done, with the expansion of your industry... nice .... for what money. There has to be a better way.

Yup I chose to live and work here and yes my carbon footprint is a lot less then what it use to be. Had a look at the milage on my truck to see how much I have put on in the last year. It worked out to less then 5000 km. Not bad considering the average is 20,000km/year . How about you? Still flying to work up north? That's got to be hard on your carbon footprint. Why don't you move closer to work?

Yup I'm hard on the planet but I'm part of the solution. My pals and me planted over 600 tress in the last 2 years. More to come next year. We planted a string of kelp in the ocean a couple of years ago and we plan on doing more. Will do an eel grass project in our estuary when time and funds allow. My pals and me raise Coho and clip them so that anglers have something to fish for. Caught any clipped Coho over the years up there in area 13?.... might be one of mine. Think about that....

Where did we get the time and money you ask? Well members on this forum stepped up and bought derby tickets that helped us with funds. In fact one member on here went way above the call of duty with his time and money to organize the whole event. Other members stepped up with prizes and help. Did you buy a derby ticket? .... No ... I didn't think so ......

Perhaps that horse, that you are so fond of, is under you. I will comment on what else you wrote to say that perhaps you should clean up your language this is a public site. Do you not have any manners?
 
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