Apparent absence of SRKW in JDF

[Englishman]

Thread moved from Sooke fishing reports.

Was out again today got a limits in no time and a tyee pink lol about 10 lbs. yes it wasnt ideal conditions sad thing I was the only boat out from sooke and jocks dock only saw 1 other boat that must have read my report as he came all the way from the east to fish near me..

They DFO has succeeded!!!!! no one is fishing here much anymore and I havent heard a report at all of the SRKW last I heard they went all the way to port hardy and were coming down the inside...someone should really tell them the fish are here for them to eat ...REALLY...


Again take the kids out and have some fun its no stop action never seen it so good ...(for coho)


Good luck wolf

Hasn't been an Orca of any kind,never mind SRKW, sighted off Pender Bluffs for months and yet fishing is closed for all finfish in the area.The only vessel that can transverse the Pender Bluffs Whale Sanctuary is a kayak, if it stays within 20 meters of the shore, so that the sound of your paddle crashing through the water doesn't interfere with their feeding, should they ever return to the area....

What a total load of CRAP!!!

I know this is getting off topic but the very fact the SRKW are not being seen locally would mean that there are not fish of sufficient type and size to support them or they would be here! They may be only whales but they have been around for thousands of years and have no doubt gone to where the food can perhaps be found. In other words, to the whales, JDF stocks are down and need rebuilding.

So it's okay to destroy a historic local fishery with these ridiculous closures when the whale avoidance "bubble zone" regulation would accomplish exactly the same result, when and IF the SRKW ever return?

There are two reasons given for fishery closures by DFO. 1) to preserve stocks 2) to create a quiet zone so whales can hunt undisturbed. Which one are you objecting to because you are muddling the two? The fact the whales are “missing” and therefore the closure is unnecessary from the noise abatement point of view might well mean the first reason still has some validity.

You are so wrong on so many levels maybe if you really understood what was going on you would get it Sorry roland Call Rollie he will let you know what is what......your way off base there is LOTS of fish here whales move always have always would last year they spend majority of time off California as maybe they like the weather who knows. this all about politics and appeasing certain user groups ... so ill end that at that and lets get back to fishing reports... ok if you want start another thread on it and let the debating go on to that...

Before it gets moved to another thread, perhaps a word about debate. To keep debates (and discussions for that matter) civil, stick to disagreeing with the ideas and the arguments, not the people. Wolf, you have this regrettable habit of personalizing almost every discussion you are involved in. This was another example. Saying things like “you are so wrong on so many levels” and “sorry Roland... you are way off base” just inflames people. It suggests something is wrong with them, rather than the ideas or arguments they advance. Try “I disagree with you” followed by the reasons why. Or even, if you are really passionate about it, “that argument is completely unsupported and is in fact contradicted by”.


If you express an idea or argument on a forum, people will presume you believe in it. Your passion, anger, sarcasm in expressing it doesn’t actually advance the idea or argument much, or at all. Evidence, reasoned arguments, logic, common sense are what you should use.


We can all fall into the trap of personalizing discussions, but let’s try to do better. We are all on this forum because we like the same basic thing, fishing.

Thx Saxe Point. Roy, your first post implied the fishing closure was unnecessary because no one was fishing off Sooke and the whales were not here anyway. Of course they move around but food is the main driver of those migrations and the fact the whales are not here, despite the relatively quiet environment they now have due to low fishing pressure indicates there is not in fact enough food. The science says little 3lb coho do not cut it for a 3000lb whale!

Sorry im not a Liberal and soorry if i have offended anyone if you dont like what i have to say dont read it plain and simple...I wear my emotions on my arm and dont sugar coat things im upfront and honest (the way it should be) we had a better world years ago NOW you cant say one word with out offending someone or hurting someones feelings.I am truely sorry I have offended you..... ill try better next time ill be more like Trudeau ok.....

Right on brother..

Roy, so the use of reasoned arguments, evidence, logic and common sense mean that one is a Liberal? Does that mean if one is of a different political persuasion then one need not use these debating techniques or is unable to do so? I expect many non-Liberals on here might not want to be tarred with that brush!!

Although some do apparently!

 

[wildmanyeah]

Which one are you objecting to because you are muddling the two? The fact the whales are “missing” and therefore the closure is unnecessary from the noise abatement point of view might well mean the first reason still has some validity.

Maybe the whales are missing because granny died a few years ago.

https://earthsky.org/earth/the-death-of-granny-matriarch-killer-whale

“
Granny was the matriarch and most famous of the southern resident killer whales—an extended family of 78 whales in three pods: J, K, and L. In recent years, she was swimming in the lead of J podvirtually every time she was seen. The question of who will assume her leadership position holds more than just common interest: studies show that killer whale matriarchs play a crucial role in the cohesion and survival of their communities. Hal Whitehead, an expert in the study of whale cultures at Dalhousie University in Halifax, Nova Scotia said:



”

 

[wildmanyeah]

Also who said they were missing j pod was spotted in active pass on July 13th

July 13
Mon, July 13 - Active Pass - 15:40 - Js have indeed been picked up coming down Rosario. -Monika Wieland Shields, OBI
*
15:22 - Just saw a pod of orcas North of Sucia, travelling SE. Seen from East Point so unconfirmed if Jpod. -Lucy Quayle
*
12:20 - Deb Wilkowski called to report seeing at least 8-9 orcas (incl 3 males, little one, and tiny one) off Point Roberts for 40 minutes, some surface activity noted: spyhops, rolling. Can't confirm but remember maybe seeing one open saddle. Viewed from Lighthouse Park from 10:15-11:30. Last seen heading southbound towards the islands. [confirmed J pod]
*
At 7:15 most or all of J-Pod went north through Active Pass! -Monika Wieland Shields, Orca Behavior Institute

 

[SpringVelocity]

If you believe in supporting restrictions to stop oil tankers, and help US millionaires for US oil I guess believe what you want.

 

[Englishman]

Also who said they were missing j pod was spotted in active pass on July 13th

July 13
Mon, July 13 - Active Pass - 15:40 - Js have indeed been picked up coming down Rosario. -Monika Wieland Shields, OBI
*
15:22 - Just saw a pod of orcas North of Sucia, travelling SE. Seen from East Point so unconfirmed if Jpod. -Lucy Quayle
*
12:20 - Deb Wilkowski called to report seeing at least 8-9 orcas (incl 3 males, little one, and tiny one) off Point Roberts for 40 minutes, some surface activity noted: spyhops, rolling. Can't confirm but remember maybe seeing one open saddle. Viewed from Lighthouse Park from 10:15-11:30. Last seen heading southbound towards the islands. [confirmed J pod]
*
At 7:15 most or all of J-Pod went north through Active Pass! -Monika Wieland Shields, Orca Behavior Institute

This is good to know Wildmanyeah. As to who said they were missing, see the post at the top of this thread and I quote "I havent heard a report at all of the SRKW last I heard they went all the way to port hardy and were coming down the inside" unquote. Just shows how things can be stirred up by false information.

 

[searun]

There is no question that SRKW pattern of use of traditional forage areas has shifted in recent years. These are wild animals, and they do not follow any predictable pattern of behavior that we humans might wish to attach as a label. Nature is random, and predicting behaviour so we can attach nice labels that help us humans put nice little maps or boxes around specific sites is a nonsensical approach in most instances. There are some high use areas that have merit, but most of the sites selected thus far for designation as a Sanctuary are entirely unsuccessful in providing real and meaningful protection given the random unpredictable nature of whale use of forage areas. One thing we are learning is most actual forage (salmon kill) events take place in water deeper than 300 feet (as in 82%). Placing a sanctuary in a shallow water area is inconsistent with the emerging science. But it sure looks politically pretty to have nice colourful maps showing broad areas defined as sanctuaries. IMO the most effective protective measure is the 400m avoidance bubble strictly enforced and backed up by a robust education and awareness program. One thing people need to understand is that politics usually trump science when it comes to landing on management measures. Its all about managing competing interests, and in that arena it means compromise and in some situations avoidance of science-based decisions. I would also suggest that there is no true science in government - much of the "science advice" is steeped with subjective and value based influence....or politics. Time to reset your "expectation" compass or you will be doomed to many more disappointments.

 

[tincan]

The 'sanctuary zones', 'critical habitat', etc are a joke. I've been a part of the SRKW technical working groups and seen first hand (or tried to see) how these zones have been created over the past several years. I've also asked some very simple questions of DFO and other collaborators, such as:

-How many times was pod J, K, L pods seen in the sanctuary zone at Pender Bluffs in 2019?
-How many days did each pod spend in the SOG / JDF in 2019?
-etc etc.

Their answer to these and many other questions was almost always "we don't know". Hmm, have you thought about tracking this sort of stuff since it's what you're telling people you are basing your management decisions on? Apparently not.

Have you asked groups like the above mentioned Orca Behavior Institute or Pacific Whale Watchers Association or even BC Ferries or local residents to help provide answers? Apparently not.

It has been a very frustrating few years to see how decision around SRKW 'protection' and fishing mgmt measures have unfolded.

I feel for the front line DFO staff who are doing what they can with limited resources. The cuts at DFO over the years have run a lot of good people out and now decisions are being made blindly with often terrible outcomes for people, salmon, whales, etc.

 

[High Time]

Tincan, I know exactly how the decision to make the Pender Island Whale Sanctuary was made. Three years ago when Suzuki and his Merry Band`threatened to take DFO to court because they weren't doing enough to protect the SRKW, they forwarded a list of demands to DFO, including a sanctuary at Pender. The political hacks here and in Ottawa jumped on it as a cheap and easy way to get the ENGOS off their backs, and appear to the uninformed public, that they were actually doing something for the whales. The last two years has confirmed that the Pender Sanctuary is a complete waste of time and that it could be easily handled by the Whale Avoidance Regulation when whales might actually be there. I hope that you keep up the pressure to get answers to the questions you have been asking. I truly appreciate your efforts of behalf of those of us that have had our local fishery destroyed.