All Things COVID-19

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Funny to see this debate about “ adjusting “ the way the vaccine is delivered in totality contradiction with the manufacturer instructions. Amazing how the same people that use a healthy amount of common sense advise against “ breaking in “ a Yamaha motor in accordance with the “ local mechanic “ and follow the manufacturer recommendations will make a completely 180 degree turn when it comes to follow the vaccine manufacturer procedure ( see topic “ Breaking in” in Boats/ Trailers...)
This shows the power that media is having in totality brainwashing people that choose to let the officials think for them.
Coming from a former communist country for me what is happening now is a “ deja vu “ and I hope we wake up before it’s too late
 
At my age I'll take any edge I can get-plus vaccination certificates are coming whether people want to believe it or not the latest is that Saudi isn't letting in anyone with one for their huge annual religious pilgrimage.

So it you want to travel you'll need the shot and the paper and there's no way around that.
That’s happening in Saudi Arabia .Fortunately we live in a free country and this will never be approved as contradicts with the most basic human rights !
 
Dr Henry responds to criticism over four-month wait for second vaccine dose.

 
Dr Henry responds to criticism over four-month wait for second vaccine dose.
What nonsesense. The CEO of BioNtech said as a scientist he believes the dose should be given as in the trials, but believes it could be stretched out to 6 weeks but no more. The CDC has revised its guidelines to allow both Pfizer and Moderna vaccines to be given up to 6 weeks apart if necessary, but still recommends following the study protocols. Fauci is not supportive of pushing dosing past 6 weeks. A worry and reason most virologists and medical associations do not support spreading the dose out past 6 weeks is the theoretical risk that a weak response to the virus in hundreds of millions of people who have received just one dose could foster the emergence of new variants that could evade vaccine-induced antibodies. This would undermine all the work done to develop safe and effective vaccines. We know the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are 95% effective post 1 week the second shot when given 21 and 28 days after the first respectively. That should not be messed with.
 
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Since when is 90% protection half a vaccine? 2nd shot brings you to 96% I believe.


Well, here is the actual clinical trial data. The same data that health canada approved the vaccine on.

Efficacy for Pfizer-BioNTech's vaccine was around 95 per cent after both doses and 52 per cent after the first, according to clinical data. For Moderna's it was about 80 per cent after one dose and 94 per cent following the second.

The source of this info is from the data below..



 
What nonsesense. The CEO of BioNtech said as a scientist he believes the dose should be given as in the trials, but believes it could be stretched out to 6 weeks but no more. The CDC has revised its guidelines to allow both Pfizer and Moderna vaccines to be given up to 6 weeks apart if necessary, but still recommends following the study protocols. Fauci is not supportive of pushing dosing past 6 weeks. A worry and reason most virologists and medical associations do not support spreading the dose out past 6 weeks is the theoretical risk that a weak response to the virus in hundreds of millions of people who have received just one dose could foster the emergence of new variants that could evade vaccine-induced antibodies. This would undermine all the work done to develop safe and effective vaccines. We know the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are 95% effective post 1 week the second shot when given 21 and 28 days after the first respectively. That should not be messed with.
Thanks for the reply and you have brought up good points as I have tried to make sense of these two (UK v. US) vaccination strategies. Here is the WPost article that has sparked this controversy. To say one is better than the other depends on where you are as they both have risks and rewards. The question is are the risks worth the rewards. I would point out that a reward for BC would be saying lives and maybe, just maybe, a near normal July / August by following the UK strategy. I understand the concern of the new variantes and the need to stop them as soon as possible. The one that seems to be circulating is the B117 (UK) and thankfully the vaccines are effective against that and all the more reason to get as many people vaccinated with our limited supply.

Fauci: U.S. must stick with two-shot strategy for Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna vaccines​

Delaying a second dose to inoculate more Americans creates risks, infectious-disease expert says​


March 1, 2021 at 5:38 p.m. PST

The government’s top infectious-disease expert on Monday reiterated that the United States will stick to a plan to inoculate tens of millions of Americans with two doses of coronavirus vaccine, as calls mount to protect more people by letting them get one shot now.

“There’s risks on either side,” Anthony S. Fauci told The Washington Post, warning that shifting to a single-dose strategy for the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines could leave people less protected, enable variants to spread and possibly boost skepticism among Americans already hesitant to get the shots.
“We’re telling people [two shots] is what you should do … and then we say, ‘Oops, we changed our mind’?” Fauci said. “I think that would be a messaging challenge, to say the least.”

Fauci said he spoke on Monday with health officials in the United Kingdom, who have opted to delay second doses to maximize giving more people shots more quickly. He said that although he understands the strategy, it wouldn’t make sense in America. “We both agreed that both of our approaches were quite reasonable,” Fauci said.

Some public health experts and other Americans have urged policymakers to reconsider whether millions of doses intended as second shots in Pfizer’s and Moderna’s two-dose regimen could be distributed as first doses instead — to offer at least some protection to a greater number of people. The issue gained steam after regulators this weekend authorized a single-dose shot from Johnson & Johnson, and an advisory committee to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Monday wrestled with the question.

Two Democratic senators on Monday also called for the Biden administration to inoculate Americans with a single dose to ensure more people get some protection before a possible spring surge of cases. “Based on conversations with health officials, we believe this approach is worthy of serious consideration,” Sens. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) and Martin Heinrich (D-N.M.) wrote to Jeff Zients, the White House coronavirus coordinator, in a letter shared with The Post. About 80 percent of adults have yet to get a single dose, according to CDC data.

Fauci said the science doesn’t support delaying a second dose for those vaccines, citing research that a two-shot regimen creates enough protection to help fend off variants of the coronavirus that are more transmissible, whereas a single shot could leave Americans at risk from variants such as the one first detected in South Africa. He also said there is insufficient evidence of the benefit of a single Pfizer or Moderna dose — or data showing how long the immunity conferred by one shot would last. “You don’t know how durable that protection is,” he said.

Fauci argued that Pfizer and Moderna’s commitment to provide 220 million total doses by the end of March, in addition to Johnson & Johnson’s pledge to deliver 20 million shots this month, renders moot any debate about whether to redirect vaccine supply.

“Very quickly the gap between supply and demand is going to be diminished and then overcome in this country,” he said. “The rationale for a single dose — and use all your doses for the single dose — is when you have a very severe gap between supply and demand.”

Meanwhile, Fauci said he spoke on Monday with Chris Whitty, the British government’s chief medical adviser, to discuss the U.K.’s strategy to prioritize first doses and delay second doses. The dialogue was part of a standing weekly call between the two nations’ experts. In an inversion of the debate in the United States, British doctors have complained that the U.K. was wrong to delay second doses.

“We had a really good conversation this morning,” Fauci said, noting that officials on both sides of the Atlantic acknowledged that delaying second doses posed challenges. “We agreed that there is a risk of making things worse by doing that — balanced against the risk of not getting as many people vaccinated as quickly as you can.”
“There’s no right answer to that, and when there’s no right answer … we want to go with what is scientifically, absolutely correct,” Fauci added. “We know that when you give people two doses, not only are they protected to a higher degree, but they have such a redundancy of antibody that you can protect them against even the worst variants.”
Fauci acknowledged that the United States repeatedly has shifted strategy during the pandemic — including his own reversal on whether Americans should wear face coverings — but said that the stakes are higher when it comes to communicating about vaccines.
“People are very skeptical on vaccines, particularly when the government is involved,” he said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/03/01/fauci-defends-two-shot-strategy/
 
Well, here is the actual clinical trial data. The same data that health canada approved the vaccine on.

Efficacy for Pfizer-BioNTech's vaccine was around 95 per cent after both doses and 52 per cent after the first, according to clinical data. For Moderna's it was about 80 per cent after one dose and 94 per cent following the second.

The source of this info is from the data below..



You may want to add this one to your list.

Covid-19: Single dose of Pfizer and Oxford vaccines cuts risk of hospital admission by 80% in over 80s, data suggest​

Both the Pfizer BioNTech and the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccines are highly effective in reducing covid-19 infections and protecting against severe disease in older adults, preliminary data show.

Analysis by Public Health England (PHE), published as a preprint,1 estimated that a single dose of either vaccine is around 80% effective at preventing hospital admission in people aged over 80, three to four weeks after the first dose. A single dose of the Pfizer vaccine also led to an 85% reduction in deaths from covid-19 in people aged 70 and over, the study suggested. These data are not yet available for the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine because it was rolled out later.

Mary Ramsay, PHE’s head of immunisation, said, “This adds to growing evidence showing that the vaccines are working to reduce infections and save lives. While there remains much more data to follow, this is encouraging, and we are increasingly confident that vaccines are making a real difference.”

More:
https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n612
 
52 per cent after the first,

my understanding about this is that the 52 percent was generated based on measuring the time from when the needle hit the arm. However if you measure the data from 7 days after that the figure jumps in the 90%. apparently measure it from 7 days after is more of the standard.

thats Atlest what what ever expert they had on the radio said.
 
You may want to add this one to your list.

Covid-19: Single dose of Pfizer and Oxford vaccines cuts risk of hospital admission by 80% in over 80s, data suggest​

Both the Pfizer BioNTech and the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccines are highly effective in reducing covid-19 infections and protecting against severe disease in older adults, preliminary data show.

Analysis by Public Health England (PHE), published as a preprint,1 estimated that a single dose of either vaccine is around 80% effective at preventing hospital admission in people aged over 80, three to four weeks after the first dose. A single dose of the Pfizer vaccine also led to an 85% reduction in deaths from covid-19 in people aged 70 and over, the study suggested. These data are not yet available for the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine because it was rolled out later.

Mary Ramsay, PHE’s head of immunisation, said, “This adds to growing evidence showing that the vaccines are working to reduce infections and save lives. While there remains much more data to follow, this is encouraging, and we are increasingly confident that vaccines are making a real difference.”

More:
https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n612

I hear ya Gil. If folks are still getting sick, then they are still passing it around.

If we stick to the manufacturer's guidelines & fully inoculate the at risk population, that will save lives & reduce hospitalization even more period.

I'm ok getting the J&J or which ever lower efficiency shot (as long as it's as per the the manufacturer instructions). It's our vulnerable and sick that deserve to be fully vaccinated asap. These group make up the Vast Majority of hospitalizations & deaths already. They should not have to wait 120 days for the second shot. This will mean folks in care homes still wont be able to see loved ones. Instead of spending the time they have left with loved ones, it will be spent locked up alone waiting for a second shot.


Lastly we have no idea how long that stated level of protection last. The data being sourced as of late is not from a controled experiment. "Real world data" should be looked at as interesting trends & nothing more.

The government has quickly lost the trust of so many who were sitting on the fence already. These folks now are saying "no way". I have been listening to news talk radio and I'm blown away with how many pepole are using this as an example on why we cant trust the government.... If pepole dont get vaccinated then we wont see a normal this year.

I'm frustrated with this because the government had to have known the repercussions of such a move. Regardless if they are right in extending out the second shots the optics of this are terrible.
 
my understanding about this is that the 52 percent was generated based on measuring the time from when the needle hit the arm. However if you measure the data from 7 days after that the figure jumps in the 90%. apparently measure it from 7 days after is more of the standard.

thats Atlest what what ever expert they had on the radio said.

If this is the case then why bother with a second shot.
my understanding about this is that the 52 percent was generated based on measuring the time from when the needle hit the arm. However if you measure the data from 7 days after that the figure jumps in the 90%. apparently measure it from 7 days after is more of the standard.

thats Atlest what what ever expert they had on the radio said.

I would love to see the clinical data from Pfizer on this. I have spent hours and there is nothing from the manufacturers during clinical trials on this. If the data being referenced is not from the same clinical trial then it's not a apples to apples at all.
 

NACI rapid response: Extended dose intervals for COVID-19 vaccines to optimize early vaccine rollout and population protection in Canada​


Summary​

  • NACI has considered evidence from recent scientific studies on efficacy and effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines in preventing various health outcomes such as infection, symptomatic disease, hospitalizations and death from COVID-19.
  • While studies have not yet collected four months of data on vaccine effectiveness after the first dose, the first two months of real world effectiveness are showing sustained high levels of protection.
  • Short term sustained protection is consistent with immunological principles and vaccine science where it is not expected to see rapid waning of a highly effective vaccine in adults over a relatively short period of time. Extending the interval between doses was shown to be a good strategy through modelling, even in scenarios considering a six month interval and in theoretical scenarios where waning protection was considered.
  • NACI recommends that in the context of limited COVID-19 vaccine supply, jurisdictions should maximize the number of individuals benefiting from the first dose of vaccine by extending the interval for the second dose of vaccine to four months.
  • Extending the dose interval to four months allows NACI to create opportunities for protection of the entire adult population within a short timeframe. This will not only achieve protection of the adult population, but will also contribute to health equity,
  • NACI will continue to monitor the evidence on effectiveness of extended dose intervals and will adjust recommendations as needed.
More:
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-hea...ines-early-rollout-population-protection.html
 
My mother (92) and lives in the seniors lodge as well as my mother in-law (73) who lives in her own condo both got their first doses today. I’m not sure of what type but good to see the smaller communities getting their share.
 
Extending the dose interval to four months allows NACI to create opportunities for protection of the entire adult population within a short timeframe. This will not only achieve protection of the adult population, but will also contribute to health equity,

The way that these guys are going against the manufacturers’ recommendations, I’m afraid that they might share a dose of vaccine with more than one person. That would give “more Canadians partial protection” while we’re waiting for India to send us more doses.
 
Looks like Alberta will follow BC in delaying the second dose and expects to rollout with the same timeline as BC.

 
It's our vulnerable and sick that deserve to be fully vaccinated asap. These group make up the Vast Majority of hospitalizations & deaths already. They should not have to wait 120 days for the second shot. This will mean folks in care homes still wont be able to see loved ones. Instead of spending the time they have left with loved ones, it will be spent locked up alone waiting for a second shot.

That's not how it works. Here in BC, and if I'm not mistaken also in Alberta, you are allowed to have a someone visit your relative in homecare as long as there is not an outbreak at the time. The sooner we get everyone vaccinated the more we can open up homecare to more people.
 
That's not how it works. Here in BC, and if I'm not mistaken also in Alberta, you are allowed to have a someone visit your relative in homecare as long as there is not an outbreak at the time. The sooner we get everyone vaccinated the more we can open up homecare to more people.
Yes you are correct it has sort of been a revolving thing with visitations with our mother. They were in lock down of course last spring but then as things lifted through the summer we were able to make appointments and meet with her in a visitation room. Of course masks were mandatory and no touching. Then through the fall and early winter they allowed them to leave even if they wanted. But as things got worse after the holidays and there was a case with one of the care givers that showed up in the lodge mother is in so once again they were in lock down, to the point of not being able to leave their rooms. That was for one week. Then it was back to normal in their daily routine in the building but no visitations. But again for the last month roughly visitations have started by appointment.
I’m glad for the precautions that have been taken with our elderly I would hate to see what happened out in Quebec take place any where else. As a family and even mother she has no issue with what has taken place, no doubt everyone is sick of it but we all understand, no chances taken with our elderly.
 

NACI rapid response: Extended dose intervals for COVID-19 vaccines to optimize early vaccine rollout and population protection in Canada​


More:
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-hea...ines-early-rollout-population-protection.html
Lets not kid ourselves the NACI is bowing to politics on this. There is no actual data that indicates pushing doses out to 4 months is going to have the same result as 21-28 days, and this is a also a smokescreen for the Trudeau government having mismanaged this so badly that Canada is currently 43nd in the world in vaccination rates. That is well behind the EU , the US, and also countries like Chile, Turkey and Lithuania. We are ahead of Bangladesh and Azerbaijan - Way to go Justin!

There is data contradicting the 4 month rollout at least for some at risk patients. If you want to see real world data on the Pfizer vaccine in Israel it has been published in the NEJM. https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2101765

They looked at subgroups based on age, comorbidities and gender. Importantly Patients 70 and older had much lower responses to the fist dose than younger patients. At 14-20 days after the first dose there was only 22% efficacy in 70+ patients that vs 16-39 year old where it was 49%. Similarly at 21-27 days the efficacy for 70+ year old was 50%, vs 69% for the 16-39 year old.

But here is the important part: After the 2nd dose, the efficacy rates were the same. 95% for the 70+ group and 94% for the 16-39 year old.

In all likelihood the response in 80+ year old, or 90+ year old people is even less after one dose as their immune systems are even less efficient. Spreading out dosing in elderly people is potentially deadly. They may get to high rates of protection, we do not know, but from this it will take longer if they do at all. If you are going experiment and push out dosing to 4 month, it should exclude elderly patients based on this real world data of the Pfizer vaccine.

But there was a even worse subgroup than the elderly. Patients with 3 or more co-morbid conditions. For these patients efficacy was 37% day 14-20, and it was still 37% day 21-27. After dose 2 it went up to 86%.

Others who are known to be at higher risk for poor outcomes with Covid also showed lower responses after 1 dose. Diabetics, obese people and hypertensives also did more poorly than the rest of the population. but caught up after dose 2.

There is science indicating waiting on a 2nd dose may be harmful at least for some high risk populations, yet it is being pushed ahead.

So let the experiment begin, and lets hope its just as effective, and doesn't produce a new variant resistant to vaccine induced antibodies. If it does we can call the new variant the "Sunny Days" variant , or maybe keep it simple and call it the "Justin". I'm not sure what to call at risk patients who die due to this experiment. Just a tragedy I guess.
 
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No worries, this experiment will all be over soon, no Covid in Texas and other places already. Masks gone and back to work/normal. We will soon follow, we are just late due to being unorganized with vaccine. We must all hang in there, before long this test will be over. Its in the script, all Govs are on same page, coming back better.

HM
 
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