Aboriginal Fisheries FR opening this past weekend

[The Fish Assassin]

quote:"Subsistence" fishing & hunting??? "Ceremonial" fishing & hunting??? Yeah, right, twin 250 envinrudes?.. jetboats?.. a scoped .308?.. Invisible mono finemesh nets?.. Back to our roots!

This has been brought up in the Supreme court many times and the general rule is that First Nations are allowed to use modern equipment to practise thier rights. Got a problem with it? Take it up with the highest court in the land.

Charlie says..

quote:Smiley, I REALLY DON'T THINK FA CAN, I don't think he has permission from his tribe

Well then maybe it might surprise you to find out that I can indeed make a moderate livlihood off fishing and hunting, I would be fully supported by my band if I so desired to do so. My band's theory on it is this, we have an undisputed treaty right to hunt and fish as before settlement. (which includes a commercial fishery) If we do not practise these rights we will loose them. We are trying to negoitate a New Treaty (for what I do not know, as we will undoubtably have to give up something in return) I would be quite happy to remain under the Douglas Treaty which gives me excluseive rights. The fact the the treaty has been broken should be enough to break the contract entirely, in which case all the land Victoria is built on should be rightfully returned to its owner. If this was a contract between two white people you would be dambed sure that it would be null and void with either a huge amount of restitution or the return of property. But for some reason when it is "indians" that get the short end of the stick every just ignores the fact. The government hasn't dealt with the Douglas Treaty issue and they do not want to, it is in their intrest to ignore the exclusive rights and negotiate a new treaty.

Take only what you need.

 

[hotrod]

Respectively! Like the debate going on here! May I suggest we keep it respectful! Some great points from both side! What is the bottom line that everyone is missiing?[8D]

Not all nisga have a treaty! and I still stand by my quotes charlie!


Hotrod

all rights reserved with prejudice

 

[The Fish Assassin]

Not sure what your trying to point out to me Charlie? Did YOU read all that stuff? See my father was the Senior DFO liason to the First Nations for over 20 years. He was there at the infant stages of AFS and helped to set it up and implement it. Near the end he was working out of Ottawa as a policy advisor to the deputy minister. I followed everything he did closely. One of the highlights for him was being called up by DFO to be a negotiater at Burnt Church. That was a very difficult situation, with attrocities commited. (Boy could I tell you some stories). My father set up the very first seine boat fishery for FSC fish as well. We fished off of Port Renfrew about 20 years ago and landed a haul of Sockeye for Vancouver Island First Nations. Every year since (except for the last 3) VIFN has been harvesting FSC with seine boats. He had to argue with DFO about it, but in the end he persuaded the powers that be. He worked for DFO , but he took it upon himself to change the way DFO handled First Nations and to point out where infringement of rights may occur. Like I have said before If you post anything that isn't "OLD NEWS" to me I'll be happy to read it, but if the only information you have is what is contained in the links you provided then perhaps you should look beyond that and truly educate yourself.

Take only what you need.

 

[SerengetiGuide]

Natives deserve more than everyone else apparently...according to FA and his numerous other posts on here. The thing that ticks me off is they are allowed to use modern technology for their "traditional" fishing and hunting rights...what a joke! The way the Natives used to live hundreds of years ago I have complete respect for...it is amazing to think about actually...but now...now it is shameful how they have lost those roots to which they were once so closely tied yet still expect to have all these special rights.

If they were to use spears they carved themselves from trees they found in the woods, I would have absolutely no problem with them getting these extra privileges...but instead they have been tarnished by the face of greed and money...trying to, what in my opinion is worse than poaching, accumulate as many fish as possibly to get the biggest buck they can. Very dissapointing...[B)]



www.serengetifishingcharters.com

http://www.youtube.com/user/canucksfanatic44

 

[SerengetiGuide]

I'm curious as to why FA thinks he deserves more than everyone else...

www.serengetifishingcharters.com

http://www.youtube.com/user/canucksfanatic44

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by hotrod

Respectively! Like the debate going on here! May I suggest we keep it respectful! Some great points from both side! What is the bottom line that everyone is missiing?[8D]

Not all nisga have a treaty! and I still stand by my quotes charlie!


Hotrod

all rights reserved with prejudice

I believe they have! All four signed the treaty did they not? And believe they signed the "treaty" as outlined... Is that not true"?

 

[The Fish Assassin]

quote:If they were to use spears they carved themselves from trees they found in the woods

I would but you guys cut down all the trees.

quote:The thing that ticks me off is they are allowed to use modern technology for their "traditional" fishing and hunting rights...what a joke!

As soon as the fish that have been over harvested and mis-managed by the Candian Government are put back , we'd be happy to use tradtional methods.

quote:The way the Natives used to live hundreds of years ago I have complete respect for

That's fine, then leave so we can..

quote:now it is shameful how they have lost those roots to which they were once so closely tied yet still expect to have all these special rights

You better believe it is!!!! Do you know that just a few years ago we gained the "right" to hold potlaches again. They were banned by your government to try to suppress our way of life. Not to mention The Canadian Government Kidnapped our children and took them to camps to try to assimulate them to "the Canadain way of life" Shameful indeed!!!

quote:I'm curious as to why FA thinks he deserves more than everyone else...

So what you want to take that from us too? Your people have already taken everything else from us, and our territories, all we have left is a right to go out and feed ourselves. Which is getting harder and harder to do all the time. It isn't a matter of me thinking I deserve more than anyone else, but rather I think of it as a right I have, that If I don't use will not be there for my children to use.

Take only what you need.

 

[SerengetiGuide]

I think the line "I would but you guys cut down all the trees." really shows the lack of basis for your arguments FA...yes...there are absolutely no trees you can find to carve a spear...none...we live in a desert...get a grip. And yes I'm aware you may of been slightly facetious. However, it is not that there are no trees for you to use, it is that greed and the oppurtunity to get what you want with less effort instead of getting it with what is right and traditional has taken over.

See..you blame everything on everyone else...it is never your own fault...the conditions that reserves are in (fridges, washing machines, garbage everywhere on front lawns)...not your fault...it's white man and the governments. It's sickening to see how often the race card is pulled these days, 80% of the time it doesn't need to be pulled...also sickening to see how PC everyone "must" be in these times. Having gone to school where I was almost the minority, but not quite...probably 60/40, I've seen that the racism goes both ways...towards the majority just as much (as well as initialized), if not more. But that is just defending yourself right FA? Not your fault...[] Sad thing is I know many ppl think the same and witness the same...but they can't say it...because they are white...and society can't allow that. There is my rant...done with the topic.

www.serengetifishingcharters.com

http://www.youtube.com/user/canucksfanatic44

 

[wolf]

Its now 2009 not 1800,s time for us all to change with the times plain and simple WE are all canadiens.

You fa have got to change as well you scream rights ,rights,rights all the time what about our right as a canadien???ever thought of it that way???
If you want to go and hunt and fish for yourself I have no problem but when and not saying you some fn people on the side of the road selling sockeye for 10 bucks a fish and then saying its my "food fish" thats where the problem lies sicking accually all it is, is GREED.

Wolf

 

[hotrod]

No! Not all of them signed a treaty! In fact most of the Nisgas who signed that treaty have died and the people who are stuck in that agreement regret ever having being put in that situation.So I guess after 100 years of this agreement the people there can start saying " that agreement is old and we don't have to abide by it"

Hotrod


all rights reserved with prejudice

 

[Charlie]

quote:Originally posted by hotrod

No! Not all of them signed a treaty! In fact most of the Nisgas who signed that treaty have died and the people who are stuck in that agreement regret ever having being put in that situation.So I guess after 100 years of this agreement the people there can start saying " that agreement is old and we don't have to abide by it"

Hotrod


all rights reserved with prejudice

?? The Nisgas and all four of their clan signed and ratified a new treaty that just took effect on April 13, 2000; Nisgas Final Agreement Act? I believe they were the first to complete the 6 step treaty process? What am I missing? http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/ai/mr/is/nit-eng.asp

 

[profisher]

Don't blame the FN individual for selling fish..blame the government. As human beings we all have the same faults..greed is only one of them...give anyone immunity from prosecution for illegal activity and they might take advantage of it...there are many whites who would do the same. Make the laws clear..then enforce them on everyone. If the laws are sound, most will respect them. Those who don't go to jail.

 

[The Fish Assassin]

I mostly agree with you guys the the side of the road sales have to go. That's why FN's should just be given a part of the commercial TAC, that way they don't offend anyone when they sell fish, that way it can be quality assured, and they could get top dollar for their fish.. $30 each just like Safeway.

I happen to know a few poeple who do sell their share of food fish when it comes to them. It certainly isn't a perfect system, but if you were to get say 20 fish and you dont eat fish, what are you going to do with them, when someone is willling to pay you $200 for them? Let them go bad in your freezer? Most of these people are living well below the poverty line, so $200 might buy some extra food for the house, or pay 1 bill, hardly greed, but more out of need.

Personally I think there nuts for doing it, I would rather have my 20 sockeye than $200 anyday.

Take only what you need.

 

[fish4all]

quote:Originally posted by The Fish Assassin

I mostly agree with you guys the the side of the road sales have to go. That's why FN's should just be given a part of the commercial TAC, that way they don't offend anyone when they sell fish, that way it can be quality assured, and they could get top dollar for their fish.. $30 each just like Safeway.

The government has already bought up close to 1/2 the commercial fleet to use to settle land claims. There were close to 400 south coast seine licences when area selection was done and i believe they are down to around 160. This fish still needs to be accounted for. We need proper monitoring and proper accounting. If you want the best value for the fish then shut down the rivers and catch the fish before it hits fresh water. also we need to have a point in each river where no one fishes above it so we can get a true number as to how much fish is making it to the spawning grounds.

It's not rocket science it's DFO getting off their butt and doing their job.

 

[The Fish Assassin]

quote:The government has already bought up close to 1/2 the commercial fleet to use to settle land claims.

With who? Jimmy Patterson?

Take only what you need.

 

[fish4all]

quote:Originally posted by The Fish Assassin

quote:The government has already bought up close to 1/2 the commercial fleet to use to settle land claims.

With who? Jimmy Patterson?

not sure what you mean. Yes they bought some of Jimmy's and other private licenses.

 

[profisher]

I see there is a 4 day opening on the Fraser for pinks...wonder how many wild Thompson Coho are mixed in?

 

[Governor]

The tragic part is when Dino suggests that nets used now are selective, so the drift net openings on the Fraser can be justified as they have little to no effect on non-target species. [V]

Yup, Profisher you're absolutely correct, those COSEWIC-listed wild Interior Fraser Coho and the Thompson Steelies too run the gamet in the Corridor of Death before they arrive home. Who knows how many don't make it? [xx(]

At a Sockeye meeting earlier this summer, when Sockeye were closed to all, Dino revealed that from spot checks/surveys they had conducted the previous week in three different places on the lower Fraser the bycatch in the FN nets averaged out at one to one. So with large mesh drift nets to 'selectively' avoid the very few migating Sockeye, an embarassing detail slipped out. It was on average one non-targeted sockeye to one targeted chinook.
(I know that wasn't a large survey sample but that was what they reported)



God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

 

[Governor]

The tragic part is when Dino suggests that nets used now are selective, so the drift net openings on the Fraser can be justified as they have little to no effect on non-target species. [V]

Yup, Profisher you're absolutely correct, those COSEWIC-listed wild Interior Fraser Coho and the Thompson Steelies too run the gamet in the Corridor of Death before they arrive home. Who knows how many don't make it? [xx(]

At a Sockeye meeting earlier this summer, when Sockeye were closed to all, Dino revealed that from spot checks/surveys they had conducted the previous week in three different places on the lower Fraser the bycatch in the FN nets averaged out at one to one. So with large mesh drift nets to 'selectively' avoid the very few migating Sockeye, an embarassing detail slipped out. It was on average one non-targeted sockeye to one targeted chinook.
(I know that wasn't a large survey sample but that was what they reported)



God never did make a more calm, quiet, innocent recreation than angling - Izaak Walton

 

[profisher]

Yet another FN 3 day opening on the Fraser as I speak...target is pinks. I guess all the Thompson River Coho are holding at the mouth waiting for them to finish topping up on pinks.