A completely different gun debate.........
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tincan
Well-Known Member
Pretty interesting to learn that NZ cops don't regularly carry a gun. It's a much different culture over there for sure. The 29 officers killed as of May 2009 refers to all recorded deaths since the late 1800's.
Police killed on duty
Main article: List of New Zealand police officers killed in the line of duty
A member of the New Zealand Police, Sergeant Stewart Graeme Guthrie, was the last civilian recipient of the George Cross, which is awarded for conspicuous gallantry. He fired a warning shot near a gunman at Aramoana on 13 November 1990, but was killed by a return shot from the gunman, who also killed twelve others.[50] As of May 2009, 29 police officers have been killed by criminal acts, and about 17 by accident, while in the performance of their official duties.[51][52][53] The last policeman to die was Senior Constable Len Snee, who was shot and killed by Jan Molenaar in the 2009 Napier shootings.[54]
Civilian deaths involving police
In June 2012 the Independent Police Conduct Authority (IPCA) released a comprehensive report on deaths in police custody. There were 27 deaths in the last ten years – ten of which were suicides. Seven deaths occurred when police were overly vigorous in the use of restraint. Another seven were “caused by the detainees medical condition” which got dramatically worse in police custody, and three deaths were drug related when police failed to ascertain the detainees were on drugs. Of the 27 deaths, the IPCA said only four "involved serious neglect of duty or breaches of policy by police".[55] On top of deaths in custody, police have shot and killed seven people in the last ten years. One was an innocent bystander, another two were not carrying firearms but were carrying other weapons.[56] The police were exonerated in all seven cases.
Numerous people have also died in the course of police car chases. During the five years starting in December 2003, 24 people died and 91 received serious injuries in police pursuits.[57] Over this period, the IPCA made numerous recommendations to change police protocols, but the death rate continued to climb. In 2010, 18 drivers fleeing police were killed.[58] That year police conducted the fourth review of pursuit policy in six years and ignored key recommendations of the Independent Police Conduct Authority making only minor changes to the policy.[59] Over the next 12 months, 15 drivers died in the course of police pursuits.[60]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Police
And the US comparison:
Big rise in number of U.S. police officers killed while at work
By Anthony Bond
UPDATED: 17:35 GMT, 28 December 2011
Comments (2)
Share
The number of U.S. police officers killed while at work this year has jumped by 13 per cent from the year before.
The National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund released the report today showing that 173 officers from across the country died in the line of duty - up from 153 deaths the year before.
The non-profit group which tracks police deaths also reported that 68 federal, state and local officers were killed by gunfire in 2011, a 15 per cent jump from last year when 59 were killed.
It marks the first time in 14 years that firearms fatalities were higher than traffic-related deaths.
The data shows that 64 officers died in traffic accidents, down from the 71 killed in 2010.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...olice-officers-killed-work.html#ixzz2GSwNccaN
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Police killed on duty
Main article: List of New Zealand police officers killed in the line of duty
A member of the New Zealand Police, Sergeant Stewart Graeme Guthrie, was the last civilian recipient of the George Cross, which is awarded for conspicuous gallantry. He fired a warning shot near a gunman at Aramoana on 13 November 1990, but was killed by a return shot from the gunman, who also killed twelve others.[50] As of May 2009, 29 police officers have been killed by criminal acts, and about 17 by accident, while in the performance of their official duties.[51][52][53] The last policeman to die was Senior Constable Len Snee, who was shot and killed by Jan Molenaar in the 2009 Napier shootings.[54]
Civilian deaths involving police
In June 2012 the Independent Police Conduct Authority (IPCA) released a comprehensive report on deaths in police custody. There were 27 deaths in the last ten years – ten of which were suicides. Seven deaths occurred when police were overly vigorous in the use of restraint. Another seven were “caused by the detainees medical condition” which got dramatically worse in police custody, and three deaths were drug related when police failed to ascertain the detainees were on drugs. Of the 27 deaths, the IPCA said only four "involved serious neglect of duty or breaches of policy by police".[55] On top of deaths in custody, police have shot and killed seven people in the last ten years. One was an innocent bystander, another two were not carrying firearms but were carrying other weapons.[56] The police were exonerated in all seven cases.
Numerous people have also died in the course of police car chases. During the five years starting in December 2003, 24 people died and 91 received serious injuries in police pursuits.[57] Over this period, the IPCA made numerous recommendations to change police protocols, but the death rate continued to climb. In 2010, 18 drivers fleeing police were killed.[58] That year police conducted the fourth review of pursuit policy in six years and ignored key recommendations of the Independent Police Conduct Authority making only minor changes to the policy.[59] Over the next 12 months, 15 drivers died in the course of police pursuits.[60]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Police
And the US comparison:
Big rise in number of U.S. police officers killed while at work
By Anthony Bond
UPDATED: 17:35 GMT, 28 December 2011
Comments (2)
Share
The number of U.S. police officers killed while at work this year has jumped by 13 per cent from the year before.
The National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund released the report today showing that 173 officers from across the country died in the line of duty - up from 153 deaths the year before.
The non-profit group which tracks police deaths also reported that 68 federal, state and local officers were killed by gunfire in 2011, a 15 per cent jump from last year when 59 were killed.
It marks the first time in 14 years that firearms fatalities were higher than traffic-related deaths.
The data shows that 64 officers died in traffic accidents, down from the 71 killed in 2010.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...olice-officers-killed-work.html#ixzz2GSwNccaN
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
lorneparker1
Banned
there are 11,000 police officers and 4 million people in new zeland vs 300 million people and 800,000 cops in the US. Im not sure that is a fair comparison.....
Rum Buddies
Well-Known Member
so...
New Zealand has 1 police officer for every 363 citizens
USA has 1 police officer for every 375 citizens
seems like a pretty fair comparison to me? That being said I think cops should be armed.
New Zealand has 1 police officer for every 363 citizens
USA has 1 police officer for every 375 citizens
seems like a pretty fair comparison to me? That being said I think cops should be armed.
Last edited by a moderator:
tincan
Well-Known Member
Agreed that it's not a good straight up comparison but some pretty simple math will show that once adjusted for population, etc the per capita rates are still vastly different. Not surprising though since the US has by far the worst numbers related to guns/gun-related violence/murders/etc of any the of 'developed' world countries. I think the interesting point to be made here is the completely different midset between the US and NZ gov't/police when it comes to dealing with crime. Clearly the NZ mindset is "less guns less violent crime" whereas the US is the opposite. It's a choice that each country has and the result of this choice has different outcomes for everyone involved (police, citizens, gov't). I'm sure there are pro's and con's of each but at the end of the day I would personally rather live in a society more like NZ than the US. The fear and anger that exists in the US today simply does not exist to the same extent in NZ and other countries (Scando, Japan, etc) and the decisions to either allow/limit guns play a key role IMO.
2 trains of thought here.
Train 1: people are generally selfish/bad and will try to kill me and take my stuff so I need a gun to protect myself
Train 2: people are generally selfless/good and less guns means less violence in society
The US hopped on train 1 a long time ago. It has become much more divided on major political issues and inequality is now at an all time high. I sorta think that either Train you hop on early will be a self fulfilling prophecy and it will be very difficult (though not impossible) to hop the tracks.
2 trains of thought here.
Train 1: people are generally selfish/bad and will try to kill me and take my stuff so I need a gun to protect myself
Train 2: people are generally selfless/good and less guns means less violence in society
The US hopped on train 1 a long time ago. It has become much more divided on major political issues and inequality is now at an all time high. I sorta think that either Train you hop on early will be a self fulfilling prophecy and it will be very difficult (though not impossible) to hop the tracks.
lorneparker1
Banned
We are mostly on the same page. I like a happy medium between the 2. And ill leave it at that. Good post
Lorne
My family and I have spent a decent amount of time in New Zealand and I think it's fairly unique country for firearms. Definitely hard to make comparisons with NZ and most other countries. IMO traditionally it all came down to respect, police and prison guards etc didn't carry firearms because they assumed a level of respect even from criminals. My old man worked down there years ago and I remember him telling me about gun control. I'm pretty sure he said on opening day for say duck hunting, it wouldn't be uncommon to see guys walking down the road possibly even hitch hiking with shot guns, especially in the countryside.
Different mindset towards firearms, different level of respect and a way smaller pool of combat/restricted weapons than probably anywhere else..... I do think that things are changing down under and crime rates are rising but it's still an amazing country.
Different mindset towards firearms, different level of respect and a way smaller pool of combat/restricted weapons than probably anywhere else..... I do think that things are changing down under and crime rates are rising but it's still an amazing country.
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