Tales From The Tyee Pool...........2019...
- Thread starter Dave H
- Start date
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
Catch and release? Sad.
Dave H
Well-Known Member
Greetings all and sorry for the short start to my annual efforts, but it's been a bit hectic here and not all Tyee related.
Anyway, even though the Pool is under the slot size rules (62 cm to 80 cm) it's rather moot, given there have been very few Tyee registered in July during recent years.
Nonetheless, it's deflating to know that if you did catch a fish in July the only way it could count would be under the new catch and release rules, amended from the old. Essentially, under the old regulations, an angler could choose to release a salmon after measuring it properly, length and girth, and hopefully getting a good photo of it, and that fish would be counted as a Tyee and be entered in the Catch and Release ledger. It would not qualify for any of the trophies awarded annually and only was applicable to anglers already bona-fide members of the Tyee Club.
The new amendment allows anglers not members of the Tyee Club to release a Tyee and receive a pin indicating that. Obviously, the fish must be released in a healthy condition, witnessed by one or more fellow anglers, and it will not be eligible for any post-season awards.
When anglers register this year they will be given a pamphlet outlining the new regs and amendments, and they are quite clear, although one caught my eye as I read through it and here's why.
It reads: "Use of devices, electronic or otherwise, that provide information that improves the current or future chance of a strike are not permitted. This includes, but is not limited to, chart plotters, depth sounders, GPS, cameras, cel phones, watches and drones."
As an aging Luddite, I was taken aback somewhat, wondering how my using a depth sounder pre-season could possibly help me in the way of improving my "future chance of a strike", so I asked the much younger and smarter Mike Mackie about it and he explained the reasoning behind this new rule.
With modern technology plus the access to a variety of contour maps and the like, it's possible to scuba the pool and mark all bottom abnormalities using GPS. Thereafter one could use that info to locate yourself right on those spots while rowing in the pool, giving one an advantage, or so it's been discerned.
Smartphones are pretty smart these days.
I wouldn't have thought of that but apparently discussions to that effect have been heard and engaged in, hence the new concern.
I don't expect much effort the next two weeks, but certainly some of us will be out for the exercise and to try a few new plugs, and who knows, maybe catch and release a few fish. Going to feel weird to be fishing in a place where a fish small enough to be legal is as rare as a 60 pounder.
At this juncture it appears the upper limit of 80 cm will end at month end, unless some new and equally stupid move is made by DFO, but hopefully we'll be fishing for Tyee in August, just like we always do.
I'll stay in touch.
Take care.
Anyway, even though the Pool is under the slot size rules (62 cm to 80 cm) it's rather moot, given there have been very few Tyee registered in July during recent years.
Nonetheless, it's deflating to know that if you did catch a fish in July the only way it could count would be under the new catch and release rules, amended from the old. Essentially, under the old regulations, an angler could choose to release a salmon after measuring it properly, length and girth, and hopefully getting a good photo of it, and that fish would be counted as a Tyee and be entered in the Catch and Release ledger. It would not qualify for any of the trophies awarded annually and only was applicable to anglers already bona-fide members of the Tyee Club.
The new amendment allows anglers not members of the Tyee Club to release a Tyee and receive a pin indicating that. Obviously, the fish must be released in a healthy condition, witnessed by one or more fellow anglers, and it will not be eligible for any post-season awards.
When anglers register this year they will be given a pamphlet outlining the new regs and amendments, and they are quite clear, although one caught my eye as I read through it and here's why.
It reads: "Use of devices, electronic or otherwise, that provide information that improves the current or future chance of a strike are not permitted. This includes, but is not limited to, chart plotters, depth sounders, GPS, cameras, cel phones, watches and drones."
As an aging Luddite, I was taken aback somewhat, wondering how my using a depth sounder pre-season could possibly help me in the way of improving my "future chance of a strike", so I asked the much younger and smarter Mike Mackie about it and he explained the reasoning behind this new rule.
With modern technology plus the access to a variety of contour maps and the like, it's possible to scuba the pool and mark all bottom abnormalities using GPS. Thereafter one could use that info to locate yourself right on those spots while rowing in the pool, giving one an advantage, or so it's been discerned.
Smartphones are pretty smart these days.
I wouldn't have thought of that but apparently discussions to that effect have been heard and engaged in, hence the new concern.
I don't expect much effort the next two weeks, but certainly some of us will be out for the exercise and to try a few new plugs, and who knows, maybe catch and release a few fish. Going to feel weird to be fishing in a place where a fish small enough to be legal is as rare as a 60 pounder.
At this juncture it appears the upper limit of 80 cm will end at month end, unless some new and equally stupid move is made by DFO, but hopefully we'll be fishing for Tyee in August, just like we always do.
I'll stay in touch.
Take care.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Lol I gotta ask has someone scuba dive the pool
Dave H
Well-Known Member
Lots of divers dive near and around the Tyee Pool. They launch at the south end north of what we used to call the old Argonaut Wharf.
Mostly in winter when water is clear as can be, but most anytime and you'll see them there. Not unusual at all here.
Don't know if anyone has actually GPS'd the bottom contours or not, nor how that might help get strikes, given the capriciousness of the fishery, but there's the rule and that's the explanation I was given.
Take care.
islandboy
Well-Known Member
At least they did not ban the use of one's memory.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
I’m just curious did they think that the catch rate and success of members was to high?
In the cap fishery, while the water is low in the river lots of the fish hold at the very bottom in the same area.
In Tyee pool like that?
In the cap fishery, while the water is low in the river lots of the fish hold at the very bottom in the same area.
In Tyee pool like that?
Dave H
Well-Known Member
Presuming you are asking about why the 80 cm limit in the Tyee Pool, the official answer is that this is part of saving Fraser River watershed Chinook and helping feed the SRKW population, so it has nothing to do with the catch rate or success of anglers here in the pool.
Easier to do a blanket rule over a singular area than work out the areas like ours that needn't be included.
Hard to imagine many Fraser River bound salmon hold in the Tyee Pool given the distance between the two areas, the timing of the runs and several other factors all-too-familiar to most here, but that's what has happened.
Like I said, moot for the most part. To your second question.......
Historically, before the hydro dams were built, the Chinook would arrive at the river-mouth starting in July, when the river would normally be low, and they would hold in the pool waiting for the Fall rains to bring the river up, at which time they'd move into the river and head upstream. This made them available to anglers for the two months or so from July 'til September, more or less what we follow today. Catch rates were high and large fish were fairly common. As an example and off the top of my head, in 1945, the year I was born, there were 284 Tyee registered, the average weight being 42 1/2 pounds. There were a few over 60, quite a few in the 50's and many in the 40's with a few pygmy 30 pounders to boot. I think Cougar Smith rowed 24 Tyee that year and was high guide. I'll double-check later.
That changed somewhat after the dams were completed at the end of the 40's and you can see the huge drop in numbers caught after that time when you scan through the ledger at the clubhouse, something I'd urge you all to do given the chance.
Hydro didn't care about fish and/or the timing of their runs and all that, so would often release water to generate power in July or August which would suck the fish into moving upstream and out of the pool, thus leaving them less exposed to angling pressure. Previously they would depend on Mother Nature and the then usual first September Southeasters and heavy rains.
Hydro operated out of compliance of the regulations on the Campbell for 41 years before getting caught out back in the 90's, but seem to have become a bit more onboard lately.
And then there's the Quinsam Hatchery.
Anyway, gotta go now so adios.
Take care.
Dave H
Well-Known Member
Sure, easy for you to say, being in Canada and all, but it's spelled eh, ok?
Cat got your tongue or something there Bruce?
Hope all good.
Take care.
Away camping with my grandson so have not been following the changes. In away they are moot but not entirely. I consider the last two weeks of July as the test period for new gear with a very low chance of catching anything other than a dog fish or grey cod. But the rare chance is what keeps us out there. I checked the club records a few months back. My quick look determined that in the last 10 years only one tyee was caught before August 1 and that was last year at the end of July. Hardly a justification for harsh restrictions. My own experience with under 30 lb catch in July is equally rare. I have never seen one caught in July and I have been out there. The fish simply do not arrive until August.
In my first year, I towed Tomic Tubbies with zero success. In my second year my success was no better until a mentor in the club gifted me a #8 Stewart spoon that he had tuned. It was already late September but the fish were still arriving. This spoon quickly delivered two fish, one 25 and one 27.5. The latter occurring at last light on the last evening of tyee season. There was one more very big fish that we at least got to see before it submerged below the boat and positioned it self side ways in the strong current until it pulled the hook. Just try to bring in a 40 lb sheet of plywood turned sideways in the current with 20 lb test line. That was 2017.
2018 was a strange year according to club records. The season basically ended early in the first week of September. Simply no more fish arriving. Still, August produced fish strikes that were well played by my guest but resulted in a score of fish 5; rod holder zero. This included one very large fish that dove so hard the 20 lb line could not release fast enough to keep up with the fish and broke. The gear breakdown for 2018 was 4 fish on shovels and one very large fish on the # 8 Stewart which, unless the divers retrieve it, has taken up permanent residence on the bottom of the pool.
So what is wrong here. Rules with no rational defence. There is no slaughter going on here and in fact few fish being caught for the hours invested. I am well aware that usually there is some degree of rational to public policy decisions even if it is not always immediately apparent. But it does not seem so in this case. I hate anything this unnecessary and unintelligent coming from people who are usually assumed to know what they are doing. Usually this means someone raised beyond their level of competence or with an ideological bent of their own, (catch and release only fisheries) or political interference, (special interest group preferences).
So who will this hurt. Mostly the tourist industry and guides who regularly take out guests for a row in the pool in July even though the odds of catching one of those big fish are astronomicaly low. Who else? All those who might decide to not become involved or may decide to no longer be involved in this historical fishery that has always been self regulating through rules that have always favoured fish over angler.
Few things are as corrosive to public confidence in the way we are governed as this kind irrational rule making. Let us hope someone overseeing this decision will see the light, although this is usually when the buroucrats circle the wagons and defiantly defend their decision no matter how stupid.
I do need to correct an earlier post in which I claimed 4 seasons experience. Actually, 2019 will be my 4th year.
Fins -n- Skins
Well-Known Member
This might seem like a stupid question but why can't they have a weigh master on the water or ready to go if a possible tyee was landed. Why does it have to hang dead on a scale to be confirmed as a catch for an official entry into the club. They just ran a catch and release derby in Port Renfrew with lots of positive results. I understand the history of the club and all the rules. Maybe time for the club to come into the 21st century or maybe they will be forced to change if the new regs continue all summer ? This is just a thought and maybe the club members discussed this already. Times are changing.
These are not endangered early Upper Fraser stream type Chinook runs down to one or two breeding pairs, they are Campbell River Chinook that are in far better shape and continue to do well caught at a terminal fishery, a fishery that is minimally impactful. There are those working very hard to eliminate all Public Sector Fisheries and they do not need our help to do it. If you think somehow voluntarily giving up being able to take a salmon home to eat will appease them I think you are mistaken. The second they get that they will immediately raise their ask to 'no catch and release". That is already being pushed. I still like to eat the odd salmon and I would like see anglers continue to have that option.
In my view we should fight every unreasonable and unjustified request to stop keeping and then stop catching any salmon run that is not at risk. Anglers should of course have the option to release salmon but once you start institutionalizing catch and release on non at risk runs we contribute to our own demise. That is the nature of Federal fisheries politics in Canada and never has Federal Fisheries Management been so politicized and non evidenced based as it is under the current Federal Government. I do not want to give up anything that is not justified by evidenced based science for conservation. We should not be push overs, we should fight it or they will take everything from us and there will be no Public Sector Fishery.
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littlechucky
Crew Member
Double like.
Fins -n- Skins
Well-Known Member
I think you missed the point Rockfish ? I meant for the next 2 weeks that they can't retain a chinook. Sorry i didn't be more specific. We all want to take a fish home and i,m not disagreeing with your view.
I appreciate you walking it back. From Dave's post it appears the club is looking at that. However,when read in its entirety it is difficult to interprets your statement as anything less than an argument for moving to catch and release. If that was not your intention, you need to be far more careful with what you say. With all that is going on, I will admit to being a little less tolerant to what appears to be actual anglers shooting ourselves in the foot, I expect that from the non angler trolls.
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I am just back in Campbell River having been away for two weeks. I had been watching the live camera of the pool since the opening on July 15th under the new rules and I was not surprised that I did not see a single boat out in the pool. I dropped down to the club this afternoon. The Corilair dock where I have a space for my boat along with about 30 other rowers, was completely empty. Not a single tyee boat-zero. The adjacent Tyee Club dock has spaces for 58 boats and has had no vacancies for decades. Out of the 58 spots on the Tyee Club dock, there were only 5 boats. Apparently, almost no one is interested in fishing during July under the new rules.
I dropped into the clubhouse and spoke with the weighmaster. He confirmed what most of us already knew. Of the last hundred fish data collected from the Tyee Pool, 98 were Campbell River fish and none were Fraser River fish. Thank goodness for DNA testing. As I understand it, those Fraser River fish that do pass Campbell River have already done so a month before the Tyee Pool even opens for fishing. We are definitely fishing for Campbell River fish not Fraser River fish.
I dropped into the clubhouse and spoke with the weighmaster. He confirmed what most of us already knew. Of the last hundred fish data collected from the Tyee Pool, 98 were Campbell River fish and none were Fraser River fish. Thank goodness for DNA testing. As I understand it, those Fraser River fish that do pass Campbell River have already done so a month before the Tyee Pool even opens for fishing. We are definitely fishing for Campbell River fish not Fraser River fish.
