SCREEN SHOTS OF FURUNO 587 WITH NEW 1 kw X-DUCER

[Sharphooks]

Last summer I committed a huge (and expensive) blunder---I installed a 1 Kw thru-hull Airmar 264W 50 Khz through the bottom of my port sponson, thinking that a transducer installed almost directly under my Scotty would be the bomb for tracking my gear in ALL conditions .... NOT.

Worked just dandy in flat calm conditions but with even the slightest bit of side to side rocking, the boat movement (and transducer's placement on the extreme port side of the boat's bottom) caused "dirty" water around the face of the transducer ---first I lost the numerals (depth read-out) ....a bit disconcerting when that occurs on a brand new Furuno 587 head set

If there was serious chop, I'd lose the entire picture altogether--- that caused some sweaty palms when I was up against the faces of cliffs when fishing Central Coast last August---I'd go in close, maybe 4 feet of water---lots of crashing waves, commotion in the seas, trying to get my gear into the nooks and crannies where the springs were hiding.

Not a comfortable place to be when all of a sudden, you lose your depth sounding capabilities!

So I was basically forced to add another 1Kw transducer--- this time I picked up the 264W 200 Khz --- I mounted it where I originally should have placed the 50 Khz ---center line of the boat!

I learned an important lesson with regards to transducers . It can be summed up from a line borrowed from the real estate guys:

LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION

A picture says it a lot better then I can


THE MOUNTING: (behind the new thru-hull is an M260 in-hull) Behind that, an in-hull puck (235 Khz)




COMPARISON OF A BAIT BALL ---LEFT SIDE = 264W 50 Khz ; RIGHT-SIDE = 264W 200 Khz





COMPARISON OF 264W 50 Khz and 264W 200 Khz FOR TRACKING GEAR






SCREEN-SHOT OF 264W 200 Khz with MARKER ZOOM (GEAR TRACKING)




DO 1 Khz TRANSDUCERS PRODUCE GOOD RESULTS IN SHALLOW WATER?



I went out on the water tonight---flat-calm conditions. You can see the amazing gear-tracking capabilities of the 264W 50 Khz-- I can easily see if my plug-cut herring is still spinning or not in 150 feet of water (under the right conditions)

It would have been interesting to have seen how good that gear-tracking picture would be if the 50 Khz transducer had been mounted centerline instead of directly under the Scotty . No doubt there would have been a difference.

But with the recent install of the 200 Khz, that's (hopefully) the LAST hole I ever punch in the bottom of my boat so I'll never be able to answer that question.

 

[Hookin'up]

Boy Lots of ducers in that shot.
are you still using the m260? is that not a 1kw as well? what didnt you like about it?
thats the one(m260) I was thinking of going to with my HDS, I have that p79 but want something alot better
that 264 does seems to work pretty well too

 

[Sharphooks]

The in-hull M260 is a great transducer (1 Kw----50 + 200 ) --- the difference between that transducer and the 264W---the M260 has a 19/6 degree "viewing cone" (50/200 respectively)

The SS264W has a 25/25 degree "viewing cone" (50/200 respectively)

So at 100 feet of depth the 200 Khz portion of the M260 will give you an approx. 12 foot viewing window under your boat of fish/bait/gear whereas both the SS264W 50 Khz and the SS264W 200 Khz will give you an approx. 45 feet feet of "window" of fish/bait/gear

The "W" designation = wide. I like bombing cliffs with my gear so gear tracking at depth is a big plus with that "W" designation. The M260 was a bit weak in that department due to the narrower beam

The M260 seems to be more of a deep-water unit (the deeper the water the wider the viewing capabilities) The tuna and bill-fish guys love that unit

IF I had to do the M260 over again, I would have gone for a transom-mount. Or chosen the M270W transom mount (25 degree beam)

Here's a screen-shot of the SS264 50 Khz tracking gear down a rock face (pardon the crumby light---the plastic film screen-cover on the Furuno makes it tough to get a good screen-shot in sun light) :




HERE'S A SCREEN SHOT OF THE M260 THRU-HULL---NOT TOO SHABBY FOR A THRU-HULL TRANSDUCER!!)
(THE "NOISE" IS THE INTERFERENCE FROM THE SS264W WHICH WAS ALSO FIRING IN THE STERN OF THE BOAT






HERE'S WHERE YOU NEVER WANT TO MOUNT A TRANSDUCER IF YOUR GOAL IS TO GET LAMINAR WATER FLOW ACROSS THE TRANSDUCER FACE UNDER ALL CONDITIONS

 

[Sr SQ]

Your 100% correct.........all products are only as good as the instal and with transducers theres so many variables that can be game changers.
Every hull is different so unfortunately experimenting is the nature of the beast.
Thats an awesome pair for trolling for salmon, really nothing better in that $$
I would remount your 50hz and seal up the hole if it was me because running both gives so much more of the picture plus its a pretty expensive plug LOL
I run a tm270w ( same elements as your 264w pair) that I put in the M260 tank and its awesome, nice thing with the wides is when you split screen (50/200 ) both frequencies cover the same area were as most ducers (like the m260) 200hz beam is so narrow its really not useful for 100' or less. So at 100' the 50hz side would show around a 30' circle and the 200hz side would be about 10' of its center.

 

[Sharphooks]

Sounds like you have a real good set-up, SQ.

I did have a guy who sells M260's once tell me that with a TM260, you could pin-point (diffentiate) an individual halibut on the bottom at 200 feet (supposedly due to the benefits of having a narrow viewing beam firing a lot of power)

I asked a Furuno tech what he thought.

Uh......maybe...was his response.

Why did you stick your TM270W in a wet box?

 

[Hali killer]

I have the furuno 585. Looks very similar to the furuno 587. Do you know what the difference is between them?

 

[Sharphooks]

The biggest difference (as far as I know):

1)) 587 HAS BOTTOM DISCRIMINATION FEATURE (with appropriate transducer)
2)) 587 HAS IMPROVED SCREEN VIEWING IN DIRECT SUN-LIGHT (vastly improved!!)
3)) 587 HAS POST-SIGNAL PROCESSING (very cool feature!)

 

[Sr SQ]

Sounds like you have a real good set-up, SQ.

I did have a guy who sells M260's once tell me that with a TM260, you could pin-point (diffentiate) an individual halibut on the bottom at 200 feet (supposedly due to the benefits of having a narrow viewing beam firing a lot of power)

I asked a Furuno tech what he thought.

Uh......maybe...was his response.

Why did you stick your TM270W in a wet box?

Boat had the m260 when I got it, so after using it and deciding I needed more coverage I purchased the tm270w.
Once I got it and started looking at it I realized it would simply bolt into the box so I thought I would just give it a try.
It would likely work marginally better not shooting thru the hull but it has never left me wanting more, it shows a clean sharp image at just about any speed so I have just left it.

 

[dance a jig]

Sharphooks, I am confused regarding your post as you mentioned that you were essentially unhappy with the location and performance of the Airmar 264W 50 KHz, and yet from the photos you provided after you installed a 200 KHz unit, it looks/sounds like you obtained better echo detail that you desired from the 50 KHz 264W unit. so... is the 50 KHz or 200 KHz unit better and why? thanks. DAJ

 

[NikNak]

I recently bought and installed a TM260. I have now moved it for the 5th time trying to find the right or best possible position. It certainly is frustrating. I have an aluminum boat, so thru hull options are limited or difficult. I am still hoping for the results that I have been led to expect. I too was told of the opportunity to discriminate halibut off the bottom. The biggest story though was the ability to see a bait ball and individual feeding springs feeding around the bait ball while traveling overhead at cruising speed. Finding the location on the stern to get clear water seems like a challenge. Good luck!

 

[Sharphooks]

Yo, dance a jig---the screen-shots I posted in my OP were captured in flat-calm conditions. The 264W 50 kHz transducer is just fine when the boat has zero side-to-side rocking going on. If a boat had gone by me and caught me in its wake, I would have lost the depth read-out (and possibly the entire picture)

So, I was left with two choices: pull the SS264 50 Khz transducer out of its mounting position, patch the hole, and move it to the center line of the boat,or.....

pick up an SS264W 200 Khz and mount that transducer center line of the boat.

So now I have "dual" capabilities with the two transducers, --- the new SS264W 200 Khz, with center-line mounting, won't lose depth read-out or picture in crumby sea conditions.

Most guys pick up the SS264W in PAIRS, and mount them side-by-side, center line. I thought I'd be creative and pick up just the SS264W 50 and mount it directly under my Scotty on the port side--BAD decision as far as location, so I was pretty much forced to pick up it's higher-frequency brother

I posted all this stuff just so people contemplating transducer upgrades could make an informed decision.

 

[Sharphooks]

I recently bought and installed a TM260. I have now moved it for the 5th time trying to find the right or best possible position. It certainly is frustrating. I have an aluminum boat, so thru hull options are limited or difficult. I am still hoping for the results that I have been led to expect. I too was told of the opportunity to discriminate halibut off the bottom. The biggest story though was the ability to see a bait ball and individual feeding springs feeding around the bait ball while traveling overhead at cruising speed. Finding the location on the stern to get clear water seems like a challenge. Good luck!

hey NikNak

I suggest you take some detailed pix of your current mount (how it looks under the boat, also side-to-side pix, showing the relationship of the leading edge of the transducer to the bottom of your boat). Also take pix of the bottom of your boat---strakes, thru-hull fittings, jack-plate, anything that might cause "dirty water (non-laminar flow)


Post the pix on The Hull Truth web site (marine electronics forum) ---my guess is you'll get several responses, comments as to what your problem might be with your placement.

If you're having troubles on the transom mount, my guess is there's a hull characteristic upstream of the transducer that is causing the problems. Either that or it's not sitting deep enough in relation to the trailing edge of your transom

As far as seeing "individual springs feeding around a bait ball".....uh, some times.

I asked that exact question to a guy employed by Furuno. He spends his days out on the water with all Furuno's latest sounders and all of Airmar's latest transducers, playing with them under varying conditions.

He suspends light bulbs on cords at various depth (to mimic fish air bladders) and takes pictures of the screen shots. He also goes out on the water and fishes for salmon.

His comment: "it depends what the springs have been eating...."

I did have several experiences last summer I can throw in here: with my in-hull M260, I can track a clean picture of bait and the bottom at 30 knots. No problem on this because I have a boat with a flat bottom made of 1/4" fiberglass--basically the perfect hull for an in-hull transducer. So on multiple occasions, in approx. 75 meters of water, I saw bait balls at approx. 20 meters with red speckles at the top and sides of the balls --- I saw this while traveling at wide open throttle.

And every time I circled back around, dropped in the gear to the depth I saw the red stuff, I picked up a salmon. This was out in the middle of nowhere, no land or points or currents, just flat open boring looking water. I thought that was kind of cool.

But on most occasions, I use 1 Kw of power to track my gear in relation to bait and the bottom. The springs are sometime there in that bait and some times they're not

 

[NikNak]

Thanks sharphooks. Once the weather changes a bit I will crawl under and take a couple of pictures, and take some pictures of the transom. I made another change almost back to my original position and am going to try to prawn fish on Saturday, so we will see what happens.

My last trip couple of trips out I have slowly passed Bold Bluff and Hueys reef in Samsum Narrows, and I believe I am seeing bait like I haven't seen before. At slow speeds the system works well. I have a new jiggging rod and reel, so all of the plan is slowly coming together.

 

[terrin]

Whats the difference between a TM 260 and the TM270 and which one would you recommend?

 

[Sharphooks]

Whats the difference between a TM 260 and the TM270 and which one would you recommend?

The TM260 has a 19/6 degree "viewing cone" or beam-width (50/200 respectively)

The TM270W has a 25/25 degree "viewing cone" or beam-width (50/200 respectively)

In real-life application the 200 Khz frequency of the TM260 (6 degrees) will show an approx., 12 foot circle of activity under your boat at 100 feet of depth (bait fish, forage fish, your gear etc) ......whereas at that same 100 feet of depth, the TM270W will show an approx., 45 foot circle of activity under your boat for BOTH the 50 Khz frequency and the 200 Khz frequency (Thus the "W" designation for WIDE)

A handy metaphor---you're holding a 6" PVC tube in one hand and a 25" PVC tube in the other hand. You look up into the sky. Chances are you'll see more bird activity through the 25" tube

The deeper you go with the TM260, the larger the "window" becomes---in an earlier post I mentioned the deep-water tuna and bill fish guys love the TM260 for precisely that reason.

But for salmon fishing?

There are definitely better transducers on the market for that application, and the TM270W is high on that list

I suggest you check out www.airmar.com

Lots of detailed info on the differences between their 1 Kw transducers

 

[reelfast]

I choose the easy route, Dragonfly, everything complete in the package including a matched transducer. I was able to pick out individual halibut at 150' flat on the bottom this past spring. there is much to be said for 'simple', my motto when it comes to boats and boating.