Rockfish in the Strait of Georgia...what do you guys know about these 2 types?

[Fish-Hunter]

GLG is absolutely right.

You guys are also correct that we do need to do something and it can't just be voluntary and partial data (that is exactly what we have now with the CREEL Surveys). This would have to be absolutely MANDATORY!!! with penalties if not abided by and completely and honestly filled out.

What I came up with in my mind last year (over the Halibut issue) was a system that DFO (already has the basis for as GLG pointed out), could use to collect the data that they wanted to use in any given year for resource management. We (sport anglers) would have tags with our licenses each year for the species that we intend to target (eg: Chinook, Halibut, and Ling-Cod), when we catch one of these species and keep them, we HAVE to enter that catch on our tag Immediately (just like we do with Chinook now (and Ling-Cod in certain areas)).

The difference is that with the idea that I am proposing, we would have to log in to the DFO Data Collection Server and enter the information off of our hand written tags to update the information in DFO's system. This would have to be done on say a weekly basis at the minimum (or bi-weekly), either way it has to be done as currently as possible to keep the Data on the DFO-DCS current and up to date. This would be easy to check by any enforcement officer (DFO, Coast Guard, RCMP, Conservation Officer, etc,,,,) just by them logging in and seeing our data on the DFO-DCS and cross checking that data to our hand written tags and crossing that data to what we physically have on hand when they are inspecting us (on the water or on land). If you don't have the information on your tags updated into the DFO-DCS then you get a warning or fine???, if you don't have your current catch recorded on your tags,,, WELL,,, that would just be stupid and punishable by law.

In today's connected world, we all should be able to log into the DFO-DCS (DFO-Data Collection Server) and keep our information updated, from our home computers, local tackle store, lodge, marinas, hell even from our smart-phones. And if you don't know how to use a computer then I am sure that within our fishing community there should be someone that would be willing to show someone that is not computer savy, how to do it. Or DFO may be able to incorporate a phone in method for those that feel better about using a phone tele-prompt system-LOL.

This would give the DFO real and up to date information on the sport catch throughout the season with a higher degree of accuracy than the current Creel Survey System, and for little to no cost. They would not have to do the fly overs any more either, and could use that money spent for this on more resource management, like say increasing the amount of fish we put back into the water from the hatcheries, or studying the impact and ramifications of fishing out our bait-fish every year, this list could go on for a long time, point being that they could improve the quality of their data, improve the age of that data, and reduce costs at the same time. They (we) would know how many anglers are targeting any given species, and also know how many of that species are being caught throughout the season, and allow them to make better management decisions based on real and current data. In order to have the best chance to make the best management decisions, we need experience, and the best information available.

Yes there would be tweaking needed in the first few years, but we have to start somewhere.

 

[Deewar25]

Guys, you can enter all your data on salmon and ling cod on your electronic license right now.
The website is all setup to do so. Perhaps if your interested give it a try and see how it's done.
The data can be captured in the current database and would be easy to run a report.
Not sure if it would mean anything if only a few people did it.
GLG

well crap, right you are....thus the problem - I know my way around the internet and I had no clue - how the hell is everyone else supposed to know? I'd love to know more info about this, whether the limited data they probably get is actually used or not in their calcs...WHY is this not enforced? Why is this not mandatory and highlighted when we purchase? Why is it buried in your profile without flagging it as being there when we purchase our license? We buy, print, and don't look again for a year so I'm pretty damn surprised this option has always been there.

30% of all licenses are purchased online, so even if only us online types were required to fill this out, that is still a reasonable capture to project reasonable numbers.

 

[gamechanger]

Personally, I don't read a single statement as posted by DFO "Gamechanger"(Brad) that remotely even looks like any form of solution to the accounting issues that DFO has today. At our last SFAC meeting in Nanaimo, Brad talked about guides & lodges and how the DFO was going to make a consorted effort to reach more of guides & lodges and ask them to participate in voluntary catch log books in order for DFO to grasp a more accurate snap shot of the Rec. sector catch data. I followed up by stating that we need more imput from all sport participants in order to grasp a closer reality of our sectors use and accountability for the use of our resource. I asked that we use our annual rec lic. as a measure, as it is a tool that already exists and would require the least amount of revenue to initiate. I asked DFO why they couldn't make it a requirement of license to submit our card back to DFO at the end of each season, so as the data could be tabulated and a more real and accurate snap shot of our season could be seen. Brad dismissed the idea, saying that it would be too easy for sport anglers to lie and fake the data. I replied that the lodge and charter could lie and fake the data just as easily. No reply, other than it is not feasible. I call BS! Our rec lic. is a federal document. We are required by law to record data...the data is wasted each and every year. It is an offense to knowingly lie or fudge information on a federal document...chargeable by law. Why do we waste this data every year? Brad, all of a sudden you are working on things?? Take my advice and use what you have before you, start there...work with what you have first! Quit wasting time and money, & unless your solution encompasses the entire rec sector, why bother!

DHA.

Listen Rob, don't put words in my mouth. If you want to say something to me than say it, don't hide behind this forum and take cheap shots at me and the work that I do. I didn't tell you the ONLY reason that we don't do year end submissions for catch data is because people would lie about their catch numbers. Yeah, it's a concern, there's always the risk that people won't report their data honestly and garbage in, garbage out...but that's no different from any other sector who reports their catch to DFO, and their numbers are treated as legit. The reason your "year-end" license submission won't work is because it's not timely. You need catch data in-season, for catch monitiring requirements, PST requirements, and allocation issues. Year end stuff would be 12-15 months behind and that's not good enough. I don't know why you think that it is a requirement to report your catch on your license and mail it in at the end of the year, but its not. Yeah you need to put chinook and SOG lingcod on your license, but that's it. There's a lot more rec species that are targetted then what is recorded on your license. If you wanted a license to capture all of that info it might be 8 pages long, and probably dysfunctional and I don't think anybody wants that.

I also didn't tell you that the DFO is only interested in catch data from guides and not average anglers because thats ******** and you know it. Do you know how much guide data we actually collect? Do you know how much guide catch contributes to the rec catch etimates? If you did you would realize that its not a large component in the big picture and that the majority of our catch info comes from average rec fisherman, not guides, because they are the largest part of the fishery. In some fisheries we collect guide info because there is a lot of guided effort there, and you need to be sure that the catch estimates are representative of the activity in the area. Saying DFO isn't interested in rec catch info from average anglers is totally untrue. Yeah we may not be interested capturing it in the way that you suggested, but it doesn't mean that we are not interested in the information. Get the facts straight.

I come on this forum for a few reasons, and one is to give you guys good info about what is going on in our rec fisheries. There are so many times when someone is spouting off that the sky is falling, the sky is falling and just doesn't have the right info. Not all of the time, but some of the time. I think you guys understand our rec fisheries better than most people, and are a great source of info and knowledge, but rumours aren't good. Spreading bad info in your rec fishery is bad for your fishery, if you haven't figured that out. It makes your fisheries look rogue and unstable in the eyes of others, (other sector groups, the media, decision makers, the public, etc...). There are lots of examples and if you guys could hear the perception and opinions that other groups have about your rec sector, you'd be the first to try and keep a more positive and professional image in your fishery.

Another reason I come on here is because I consider it part of my job to keep you guys informed as to what is going on in our rec fisheries from a DFO perspective, and I thought that this was a good way to do that. I think that the government should always try to keep people informed in a timely and transparent way, and as a Canadian and a tax payer, and I guess just personally, I think it's the right thing to do.

I think that the public is one of the best resources that we have and that we could solve a lot of our rec fishery issues just by working together. There's not a lot of DFO staff that understand our rec fisheries like I do, who used to be a guide, and spent years working in your industry and feel that working with the public is the way to go. I used to be on the other side of the fence and have seen things from both sides. I think that we are on the verge of really changing the face of recreational fisheries and how they are treated as a sector, but you guys need to get on board and stop the finger pointing. Or don't it's up to you.

If you want to continue to take cheap shots me because that makes you feel better and if you don't want to work on solutions to our rec fishery issues, that's your call I'm not going to try to stop you. But I'm not going to waste my time coming on here to give you guys info and keep you informed as to whats going on because I don't need to do this.

Here's some info on a couple of things that we have been spending some time on, and likely will be out for 2012 if you are interested.

1. A form that people can record their catch online and submit it to DFO. Likely simple and user-friendly if people are going to adopt it and we are just in the process of developing it with the creel needs. A prototype will probably be ready for the spring that we will circulate through the community and get your feedback on. The thought is that if the data that is captured is sufficient and similar to that coming out of the creel survey, maybe it will become a viable option for some fisheries and their rec catch monitoring.

2. Is an app, we are working on them for iphones, blackberries, and android. There should be a version out for the spring that you can put on your phone and submit your catch electronically. Its been developed, and its pretty cool, but still lots of tweaks are needed...huge potential though. Huge.

3. Is the creel survey report card that I mentioned earlier.


gc

 

[Deewar25]

GC, wouldn't worry too much about what some people think...I think its about time someone from DFO was actually willing to discuss things with the sport fisher in a casual manner and really try to come up with solutions as to determining accurate catch records so spot closures and restrictions can actually be applicable and relevent...app would certainly be a way to go - better exposure and enforcement of the electronic licensing log book would be great as well. As said, I had no clue it was there and just went in there and tallied up my annual catch. Obviously late, but now that I know its up there, I have no problem reporting as it happens. Anything beats relying on estimates off 2 returned tags kind of thing!

One consideration for online entry assuming that is something in addition you guys have been working on is better access to determining subareas. I always found that next to impossible to locate online - just discovered how to access it today sadly enough as the maps always seemed to elude me. Better navigation in the website would go a long way.

Thats it for now - personally I appreciate the attempts to come up with more prompt accurate information so I look forward to seeing what you guys come up with in a system that MAY actually get people using it and knowing about it.

 

[DHA]

@Gamechanger,

Brad, in our last Nanaimo SFAC meeting you informed us that DFO was working on a solution to expand the Guide/Lodge log book program that has pre-existed for some time now. You said the reason for doing so was to get a more accurate accounting of their use of the resource. You stated that it was important to have the data available for pacific salmon negotiation meetings and the same for pacific halibut. I then interjected and asked if there was going to be any expansion on in season reporting from the rec sector in general. You said there were no plans to do so. I asked why we could not do this in order to get an overall snap shot of the entire rec sector in season. You then said that there would be no way to tabulate the data in a timely fashion[something Bill Shaw has stated for years also].

I then asked why this data could not be used, you said that it would be skewed and that it would be to easy for individuals to lie about their catch. I said that the Guide/Lodge industry could lie just as easily. I then asked why we were not at the very least using the recorded data from our annual lic., to at the very least have an idea at the end of the season as to what we caught. Again you said that it was not possible, that it would be a huge under taking and that asking anglers to volunteer to remit their license would not work as you stated, that only a small percentage would respond. That Brad, is the long and the short of what both you and I interjected in our last Nanaimo SFAC meeting.

No where have I ever stated that it is a requirement of license to report your catch data...I suggested or asked to make it a requirement, rather than a voluntary effort.

I won't address the rest of your message for it is a broad based interpretation or overview that is not directed at me personally. It is your view of the sport sector and how you perceive us.

DHA.
Robert Van Pelt - hiding in plain view!

 

[baddogg]

I also appreciate your input GC. The more you can tell us the better. I like the idea of an app as well as an online submission possibility.
Some guys on here have their hearts in the right place, they just engage their mouths before thinking things through.
The old rule of waiting 24 hrs. to respond to what is read is often a good idea.
Cheers

 

[Duffer]

Good to see ya on the forum engaging in discussion GC. Good to here improvements coming down the pipe for more accurate counts. Apps are a great idea. Dont usually spend to much time on the putor in the summer, Blackberry yes lol. I agree totally on some day getting rid of the flyovers like buddy said earlier. I dont think they are accurate except to tell you how many boats are fishing out there. Doesnt mean that they ALL have Halibuts in there tubs. Any how thanks for any info you can give us on here. The problem is reaching ALL rec fisherman with info because unfortunately there not all on here.

 

[Duffer]

Oh yeh I forgot to mention, a big thanks also to all the guys volunteering to work certain hatcheries. As I was driving to work this morning I passed someone that I know that was already down at the hatchery and he looked very Wet and Cold as I bonked my horn and waved. LOL A big thanks to u guys!!

 

[chris73]

Brad, please come back here regularly. We appreciated that. And I am very interested in the proposed programs you laid out above and you can count on my help if needed. Shoot me a PM if you would like to discuss. The idea of publicly engaged DFO officers is very new to many of us and I think many of us will gladly take up this opportunity of dialogue and input. Cheers!

 

[DHA]

Brad...I only get what you say in person. If you tell me no, then I take it as no. I don't have any personal issue with you what so ever. In fact I really like you. I also really like Bill. How ever, what you tell me in a meeting is what I will take to public. You are DFO, you are my local rep, what you say to me in a meeting, and how you say it, is how I make my interpretation. I will always do my best to be accurate in what I say - how ever, you need to know that DFO is not my friend. I do like you though.

All I ask is that you work toward the things we ask...if you don't know, say it, if you do know, say it, and if you think you know, please play caution, because I will report it as I see it. I don't hide and I will continue to do as I see to be my options and report as such. Please continue your efforts, they are valiant.



Robert

 

[searun]

x 2 - Brad we have been asking for years to be part of an expanded creel survey process....and been critical of DFO for not considering the catch data from our fishery as a viable Mgmt tool. Appreciate any updates and work towards this objective. For too many years the sport fishery has been ignored as a source of biological data to better manage the fishery, so nice to see the change of direction. Anything that can be done to make the app easy and simple to use will enhance the uptake of this within the rec fishing community. A little too much guess work has gone into in-season management of the rec fishery, so this will only help produce (hopefully) a better process.

 

[adanac]

One day off Pt Atkinson this past summer we caught 3 yellowtails, 2 of decent size. Never caught another though..

 

[lazoman]

Ran across this pic from last year, a smaller yellowtail, caught north of cape Lazo.