Relationship of leader length to drop back?

[dance a jig]

Over the years there has been much discussion about leader lengths distance behind the flasher, and much discussion about drop back lengths distance behind the release. My question is there any relationship between these two variables?
I know that a drop back of say 8-10' like some suggest will only allow the flasher to spin a small diameter, say 2-3', whereas a drop back of say 18-25' will allow the flasher to spin a larger diameter, say 5-8'. So...if one elects to use the longer drop back which means bigger diameter flasher action, does that also suggest one needs to increase the leader length if using a chovie (I assume the 42" +- hoochie length would stay constant) in order to get the proper presentation? Or am I all wet, and there is no relationship?

thanks in advance for your opinions. DAJ

 

[tomictime]

42" is for Hootchies, at least for me. I use 7-8' for Chovies...
there might be a small relationship, as you suggest, but why introduce another variable? ..however....running the flasher too far back will cause it to stall and in my opinion not fish very well.

 

[tomictime]

Clarification: stall is observable at 30' back at 2 mph in turns while fishing shallow - hot spots are plastic they float, turns which if one is fishing tight to shore or in traffic are unavoidable. a 70' setback at say magic rock at ferrer (the shelf there is 28') will make you lots of friends....and a tight leash yielded 8 fish on 6 passes there, for me anyway...

as an aside...about 10% of the boats "know" how to fish that spot, while many will watch you go in there and hook up - few appear to "get it"...

BUT, charlie - you seem to be in the 10% who catch fish, so I will try a bit of 50-70' feet this coming year...I might even use the good side of the boat

But hey, the ferrer point point may be moot - guess we will all be offshore..AGAIN..this year - burning more gas

 

[searun]

Distance back from the clip is critical in determining the action as noted, and is the difference between fish and no fish at times. This is another variable to worry about, and you can stick to your own comfort zone when it comes to length and still catch fish. But, there are times when having them back as little as 3 feet will change your production dramatically.

 

[dance a jig]

Charlie, I appreciate your reply but am confused still. You suggested "...you need to allow enough leader length that the action is not inhibited by the flasher." which I am not sure I follow. Also, the Hot Spot instructions you referenced say "When fishing at shallow depths (less than 40 feet) for Trout or Salmon (Large Chinooks), a longer leader (30-70') is recommendend", yet they also suggest the common distance back is 18', which is what commercial trollers use, and is very close to the 15' range I use.

So because a longer drop back influences action, if one starts at 18' as suggested by Hot Spot, what are the factors that influence you to a) increase drop back (which increases your hot spot rotation diameter), or b) decrease drop back (which decreases your hot spot rotation diameter)? If one makes any adjustsments, do they also adust their leader length then, perhaps longer with a wider hot spot rotation, and shorter for a narrower hot spot rotation? Again, I am trying to understand the relationship between the drop back and leader length? Some guys in this forum use, I trust successfully, both long and some short leaders for chovies, and I wonder if there is a relationship to their drop back that produces the "sweet spot" for their particular leader length? Charlie has success with longer leaders it sounds, and is that related to "his drop back" length, whereas others will claim repeat success with 5' leaders and I wonder if that is associated with their drop back?

Wolf, Papa Swiss, The Fish Assasin, Sushi Hunter, R.S. Craven, or other respected posters, can you weigh in on this one? Thanks once again.
DAJ

 

[salmon9]

The farther back the flasher the bigger the rotation of the flasher, the longer it takes to complete a full rotation and the wider the rotation. I like to keep it simple and for the most part keep to standard distances from my clip.

 

[fishin_magician]

quote:Originally posted by dance a jig

Charlie, I appreciate your reply but am confused still. You suggested "...you need to allow enough leader length that the action is not inhibited by the flasher." which I am not sure I follow. Also, the Hot Spot instructions say "When fishing at shallow depths (less than 40 feet) for Trout or Salmon (Large Chinooks), a longer leader (30-70') is recommendend", yet they also suggest the common distance back is 18', which is what commercial trollers use.

So because a longer drop back influences action, if one starts at 18' as suggested by Hot Spot, what are the factors that influence you to a) increase drop back (which increases your hot spot rotation diameter), or b) decrease drop back (which decreases your hot spot rotation diameter)? If one makes any adjustsments, do they also adust their leader length then, perhaps longer with a wider hot spot rotation, and shorter for a narrower hot spot rotation?

Wolf, Papa Swiss, The Fish Assasin, Sushi Hunter, R.S. Craven, or other respected posters, can you weigh in on this one? Thanks once again.
DAJ

Don't make rocket science out of this...

1. It's unnecessary to fish lines so far back. Unless the fish are "boat shy" or gear shy in a terminal fishery, stick with the tried n' true. A guy I know used to fish his 30 to 60 feet back. By the time he got "into" the fish, it had already spat it or was in the process of doing so--usually all the strikes were "pop offs". Lengthening the "lead" off the cable increases the diameter of the rotation and generally slows down the revolutions.

2. Also, if you're fishing shallower , fishing further back sometimes is to your advantage, as you get to cover a larger amount of water in your search for the fish. However, I think you'll find if you're stacking lines, having lures and flashers so far back is a hindrance when you're into a serious fish.

3. What is unsatisfactory about the current formula? It works, it catches fish and while some creativity and variance is never "harmful", at least within certain limits. Your results may vary.

4. Hootchies are a "non action" lure and thus you want to ensure your lure is consistently producing the right action..and if your lure gets fouled with small fish, jellyfish, seaweed etc..you're NOT going to see when you're back 60 feet. In some cases, Sockeye will be hooked and follow along and you won't even know they're "ON".

I'd stick with the formula and not vary too far from it. If commercial trollers messed with your 70 feet back business, they'd spend all day pulling gear in/out instead of clearing off fish.

If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

[8]

 

[searun]

Well Charlie, you can take the advice on 3 feet back or not. There are times/places in my guiding career that this works extremely effectively.

 

[searun]

No offense taken, original reply sounded like you were poking fun at a small tip being offered up. My apologies for taking your note the wrong way. Yes the flashers do work that close to the wire. I tend to use this method for sockeye in some conditions - not all. In essence you are trying to achieve a different look for the fish. I have a never say never approach - much like you. Its always good to listen to what others say, and work that into your bag of tricks for those slow days when your usual presentation isn't working. That's the great thing about this forum, people are not afraid to share their ideas...and I always pick up a few ideas or get the inspiration for ways to modify some of my current methods.