Possibly why there are no Sockeye in BC?

[OldBlackDog]

AP
Correction: Alaska-Salmon Hatcheries story.
The results, Ruggerone said, suggest "there is this link between sockeye salmon and pink salmon related to competition for food."

A University of Washington study published in Nature Ecology & Evolution concluded that climate warming is creating favorable conditions for sockeye leaving in freshwater for Alaska's Bristol Bay, allowing them to grow faster in lakes and leave for the ocean after one year instead of two, said lead author Timothy Cline.

However, competition from wild and hatchery salmon — both pinks and chums released by Japan — delayed sockeye maturation and kept them in saltwater an extra year.

"There's pretty consistent evidence coming out in the last decade that we are at or near that carrying capacity and it's starting to have impacts on growth and survival of salmon all over," he said.

https://www.winonadailynews.com/new...cle_703e9cd3-24b9-5fde-9683-a374549bdae1.html

 

[fish4all]

Is this why Alaska just harvested 45 million sockeye? Makes zero sense and plays into DFOs plan to do nothing.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Is this why Alaska just harvested 45 million sockeye? Makes zero sense and plays into DFOs plan to do nothing.

Mostly bearing sea fish,

Imo we need to up pump out as much hatchery fish as possible it’s the only way we will bring everyone to the table. As long as we cut all the countries will pump out more and take advantage of it.

 

[dradons]

Mostly bearing sea fish,

Imo we need to up pump out as much hatchery fish as possible it’s the only way we will bring everyone to the table. As long as we cut all the countries will pump out more and take advantage of it.

Sounds like cold war and arming up on nukes to the same level....

 

[wildmanyeah]

Sounds like cold war and arming up on nukes to the same level....

It's the sad reality hatchery production needs to be part of international salmon treaties.

 

[Birdman]

Sounds like cold war and arming up on nukes to the same level....

Do you win an arms race by watching from the sidelines?

This hatchery salmon ranching debacle needs to be addressed in high level government to government negotiations, and good luck winning those without leverage.

 

[dradons]

Do you win an arms race by watching from the sidelines?

This hatchery salmon ranching debacle needs to be addressed in high level government to government negotiations, and good luck winning those without leverage.

Yah it's ridiculous that they can pump out that many. How they think it wouldn't impact other species and runs is beyond me.

 

[terrin]

Do you win an arms race by watching from the sidelines?

This hatchery salmon ranching debacle needs to be addressed in high level government to government negotiations, and good luck winning those without leverage.

The Fish Farm debacle that we are part of in B.C. is worse and gives us no credibility to even put the ranching on the table.

 

[Birdsnest]

I say if you cant beat them join them. ???I do not know why Canada is not ranching????? Oh ya I do. Even if we tried or suggested it would get so wrapped up in politics and bogged down by studies and American NGO environmental funding.
For some reason we in canada seem to go by the rule "if it aint natural it aint good".

I would not be surprised if some country out there is not looking into developing the ultimate feeding machine of a ranch salmon. A genetically altered species that will simply out feed every other species of salmon and then go home.
Either way salmon ranching is uncontrolled mining of the ocean for protein and its turned into a race between nations, USA, Russia, Japan etc.

 

[agentaqua]

I say if you cant beat them join them. ???I do not know why Canada is not ranching????? Oh ya I do. Even if we tried or suggested it would get so wrapped up in politics and bogged down by studies and American NGO environmental funding. For some reason we in canada seem to go by the rule "if it aint natural it aint good".

I would not be surprised if some country out there is not looking into developing the ultimate feeding machine of a ranch salmon. A genetically altered species that will simply out feed every other species of salmon and then go home. Either way salmon ranching is uncontrolled mining of the ocean for protein and its turned into a race between nations, USA, Russia, Japan etc.

Common property resource - at least that's the feds perspective as to why BC doesn't follow AKs example. AND...
If we are limited by production in the ocean and excessive hatchery output from all nations - then is it smart to continue excessive stock enhancement?

 

[patbay]

"Either way salmon ranching is uncontrolled mining of the ocean for protein "

Lol, isn't that exactly what your fish farming industry is doing with our local Herring and forage fish from all the other countries? I've read that the Fish Farm industry has virtually depleted or wiped out 19 out of 20 herring stocks across the world. That's quite something, you must be proud!

 

[ILHG]

Lol, isn't that exactly what your fish farming industry is doing with our local Herring and forage fish from all the other countries? I've read that the Fish Farm industry has virtually depleted or wiped out 19 out of 20 herring stocks across the world. That's quite something, you must be proud!

TROLL

"If you read it on the internet then it must be true. That makes you an expert!"

 

[patbay]

Haha, thanks for the advice ILHG.

This is from DC's website, and he does provide references. Take it for what you will. I'm not a troll, just a concerned fisherman just like you. My statement wasn't fully accurate. Here is the quote I was trying to recall......

Global Forage Fish: Fish farms don’t save fish, they kill fish. The Sea Around Us project has determined that 19 of the top 20 forage fish species are either badly managed, collapsing or both. (27) Norway is singled out for having destroyed global Jack Mackerel stocks to feed farmed fish, rather than humans. (28)

 

[fish4all]

Sounds like cold war and arming up on nukes to the same level....

I would rather be in the fight then sitting on the sidelines. Besides the carrying capacity of the ocean is yet to be determined.

 

[agentaqua]

and produce fish meal & oil, as well Sino - altho the industry has managed to cut-back on it's need for fish-based oils in the past few years. The question is: "Why aren't we eating forage fish directly - rather than converting them into farmed salmon flesh?". Don't be fooled by the "nobody eats them" or the "dogfood market" trolls neither. The fact is that these fish are eaten by people worldwide - and we could feed more of the world by feeding people forage fish directly since it is a direct loss converting forage fish into farmed salmon.

Anyways - back onto the questions & issues around unregulated and excessive ocean ranching onto a finite ocean production regime...

 

[Birdsnest]

By all means sino if there are no sockeye in bc because of salmon farms in bc you should highlight that since thats the title of the thread. But I know you cant.

When it comes to salmon ranching there are no controls on what those fish eat and how much. One should also consider that ranched salmon have far poorer feed conversion than farmed fish and also use the same feed sources as fish farms. At least with salmon farming we know what feed fish are taken, when, where and how much. These facts do not exist with salmon ranching.

Some good reading in here about salmon farm feed.
https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/insight/feeds-aquaculture

 

[agentaqua]

Understanding what feed is fed for a few weeks to juvenile/sub-adult ocean-ranched fish before they take off for the big swim should be easy to determine. I would assume that records of what feed was bought and subsequently fed should be easy to sum-up. They eat on their own from thereon - or perish.

I think the bigger issue is how many fish can we fit in the ocean and how many should we? 2 different questions with likely 2 different answers.

I think we have reached the answer for the 1st question by summing-up all the releases from all the nations on the Pacific Ocean. The "off-the-cuff" answer for the 2nd question is: "less than we are currently" - but it's kinda like a fishing derby - nobody wants to be the 1st one to go home w/o catching their limit...

 

[wildmanyeah]

and produce fish meal & oil, as well Sino - altho the industry has managed to cut-back on it's need for fish-based oils in the past few years. The question is: "Why aren't we eating forage fish directly - rather than converting them into farmed salmon flesh?". Don't be fooled by the "nobody eats them" or the "dogfood market" trolls neither. The fact is that these fish are eaten by people worldwide - and we could feed more of the world by feeding people forage fish directly since it is a direct loss converting forage fish into farmed salmon.

Its only fair we eat some humpback whales too right? this idea that we can ignore top tier predators but eat all their food, creates an imbalance IMO.

 

[dradons]

Its only fair we eat some humpback whales too right? this idea that we can ignore top tier predators but eat all their food, creates an imbalance IMO.

It is clear the whole the thing is a delicate balance. This is why the whole ranching thing pisses me off so much. It just seems crazy to me to dump that many fish out into the open ocean..... Some lakes get completely killed out by invasive species like asian carp and such. Pushing out Salmon in absurd quantities can't be good for the balance in the North Pacific.

 

[wildmanyeah]

It is clear the whole the thing is a delicate balance. This is why the whole ranching thing pisses me off so much. It just seems crazy to me to dump that many fish out into the open ocean..... Some lakes get completely killed out by invasive species like asian carp and such. Pushing out Salmon in absurd quantities can't be good for the balance in the North Pacific.

don't worry humpback whales like salmon smolts too