Bilge Pumps

[Finished Business]

Came across a great article that is worth the read I think..

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/bilge_pumps.htm

It goes over bilge placement, recommended volume of flow for length of vessel...ect.

In regards to personal experience, has anyone had problems with a certain make of bilge pump that one should stay away from?

I like the Attwood Heavy-Duty series of pumps. Someone mentioned the need for a high volume 1500GPH pump onboard, which I thought was overkill, but after reading the article, the author recommends a total volume of 3-3500GPH flow on a boat 21-26' long. Surprised me, but nevertheless I start looking into high flow pumps, and want to make sure I make the right purchase.

Attwood also made what I thought was a great product. Its a bilge alarm switch that you install in an area of your bilge that normally should be dry. Should the switch get wet the alarm sounds and you know its time to kick on the big pump.

Any thoughts you brains may have are appreciated!

-FB-

 

[Foxsea]

Came across a great article that is worth the read I think.. http://www.yachtsurvey.com/bilge_pumps.htm

In regards to personal experience, has anyone had problems with a certain make of bilge pump that one should stay away from? I like the Attwood Heavy-Duty series of pumps. Someone mentioned the need for a high volume 1500GPH pump onboard, which I thought was overkill, but after reading the article, the author recommends a total volume of 3-3500GPH flow on a boat 21-26' long. Surprised me, but nevertheless I start looking into high flow pumps, and want to make sure I make the right purchase.

Attwood also made what I thought was a great product. Its a bilge alarm switch that you install in an area of your bilge that normally should be dry. Should the switch get wet the alarm sounds and you know its time to kick on the big pump. Any thoughts you brains may have are appreciated! -FB-

Pascoe has some great points. When I had a survey done, the two areas the surveyor outlined for improvement were the wiring and bilge pumps. Here are earlier remarks from the original thread posted by Sculpin, regarding transom plugs:

"If a small boat sits 12 inches in the water from water line to plug, the flow velocity is 8.5 ft. / sec. When the plug is 3/4" dia., that clear hole will allow a maximum of 702 gal. / hr. to enter the boat. This flow should be easily handled by a single bilge pump of 1200 g.p.h. capacity. At at 2 feet submerged head, the flow is greater so now 990 gal. per hour are coming in. (The good news being that the pump will have less head and so discharge rates will increase.) The boat sinks quicker as the water puts the boat deeper in the water. David Pascoe ( http://www.yachtsurvey.com/bilge_pumps.htm ) suggests that even small vessels should have 2 pumps with a total capacity of about 3000 g.p.h. With a smaller pump, sinking will be a slow event. Even slower with an excited crew member on the bailing bucket! lol Once again, good battery management and maintenance are critical to the safe operation of any vessel. Perhaps check the pumps and switches now-and-again, as well."

I have always been a fan of Rule centrifugal pumps and presently have 3 on board - one forward and two near the transom totalling 4350 gph. (My brother-in-law manages maintenance for a small charter fleet and has found centrifugals very reliable on smaller boats.) All 3 are fused, switched and wired independently. The smaller ones - 750 and 1100 gph, are for routine pumping. The larger, 2500 gph unit is for a disaster. The pumps depend entirely on: 1. well charged batteries with the capacity to do the job. 2. adequate wiring to provide full current, reliably to the pumps (heat shrink connectors and 12 ga. wire for the largest pump.) 3. large pumps, considering their actual output may be only 50% of the rating; 4. large diameter, smooth bore discharge hose and clamped fittings. (Discharge ~2' above the water line). - do not use the cheesy, cheap corrugated stuff. 5. - maintenance: check the pumps and switches every once-and-a-while.

My opinion is that 1 - 5 is more important than the brand. Bilge alarms work if someone is listening (we usually ignore car alarms - unless it's ours). And remember the plug!

 

[TelStar26]

Thanks for the post. Ill add other item to the "must buy boat list"

 

[Finished Business]

Foxsea, can you link that original thread?

Mabye I just suck at searching old posts!

Tx

 

[casper5280]

I have 3 Pumps on my boat 2 small clean-up pumps one is switched at the back of the boat and the other is auto and switched at the front. The third is a 2000 gpm auto/switched. I also T'ed into my wash-down pump for the worst disaster.

 

[staying alive]

That's a good article wish I read it before I put my secondary 1200GPH one in this winter -------thats it I'm going to get the biggest baddest one I can squeeze in there . Think I will leave the 1200GPW as my primary and get some 2000GPW for the secondary .
Have to wait for next winter though ----it is fishin time

 

[Foxsea]

Foxsea, can you link that original thread? Mabye I just suck at searching old posts! Tx

Sure - there was a little confusion. The miscommunication was around plugs outside on larger boats and inside on smaller ones - otherwise: http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum...side-or-Outside/page2&highlight=transom+plugs

 

[trendsetter]

Pumps to stay away from:

Rule-Mate Fully Automatic Bilge Pumps: (Garbage. I had one that failed in 3 weeks, the replacement failed 1 month later.) When they fail they stick in the on position and will drain your battery. http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...toreNum=50632&subdeptNum=50633&classNum=50634

Seasense: These are the cheap 500-800gph pumps you find at CDN tire etc. These pumps are cheap and the do work but fail usually within 6 months if your boat is left moored or exposed to the weather. I used these pumps for 3 seasons and had to replace them multiple times.

Pumps that are good, in my experience:

Johnson and rule 1500 GPH plus centrifugal pumps.

I've run the 1600 model johnson pump for the last two seasons. Runs without fail and saved my butt more than one occasion.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...toreNum=50632&subdeptNum=50633&classNum=50634

Like I said in your restore thread, I would go with a smaller 500-750 gph pump for everyday / rain water pump out on an automatic switch. Then add the larger, 1500gph+ pump on a manual switch for use in emergency. The article you posted a link to recommends more flow, what i've posted would be a minimum.

 

[Foxsea]

Pumps to stay away from:
Rule-Mate Fully Automatic Bilge Pumps: (Garbage. I had one that failed in 3 weeks, the replacement failed 1 month later.)
Like I said in your restore thread, I would go with a smaller 500-750 gph pump for everyday / rain water pump out on an automatic switch. Then add the larger, 1500gph+ pump on a manual switch for use in emergency. The article you posted a link to recommends more flow, what i've posted would be a minimum.

Those Rule-Mate automatic pumps are a really dumb design - they sense load by running every 3 minutes and then stay on if they sense water. So, if no water they still start and stop 500 X per day - just ridiculous. Designed by a committee that never boated! No wonder they don't last. Generally, Rule are good pumps otherwise. Use a float switch instead - big amp one for big pumps.

One more bit of advice - the Blue Seas battery management panel has an "always on" circuit for bilge pumps. Good idea! The problem with a typical helm or battery switch is that it can be shut off - by accident. With float switches, would you ever want the pumps to be shut off at the dock?

 

[Saxe Point]

Those Rule-Mate automatic pumps are a really dumb design - they sense load by running every 3 minutes and then stay on if they sense water. So, if no water they still start and stop 500 X per day - just ridiculous. Designed by a committee that never boated! No wonder they don't last. Generally, Rule are good pumps otherwise. Use a float switch instead - big amp one for big pumps.

One more bit of advice - the Blue Seas battery management panel has an "always on" circuit for bilge pumps. Good idea! The problem with a typical helm or battery switch is that it can be shut off - by accident. With float switches, would you ever want the pumps to be shut off at the dock?

I agree that constant cycling of a pump is a bad idea. But Rule now makes "Rule-Mate" models with built in float switches. No more cycling, but automatically senses water, pumps it out and shuts off. I just installed one, so we will see how it goes.

 

[Aces]

I agree that constant cycling of a pump is a bad idea. But Rule now makes "Rule-Mate" models with built in float switches. No more cycling, but automatically senses water, pumps it out and shuts off. I just installed one, so we will see how it goes.

These ones work way better than the old ones. 2 thumbs up.

BTW....... can't have too many pumps. I have 4 total

 

[Barnacle Bill]

How do you hook up 4 different pumps with hoses going thru the hull? ...........BB

 

[spring fever]

I have 3 but don't forget the macerators in the infloor fish boxes-if the world is going pear shaped in a hurry-there may be other pumps on board which may give you more time.

 

[Foxsea]

I have 3 but don't forget the macerators in the infloor fish boxes-if the world is going pear shaped in a hurry-there may be other pumps on board which may give you more time.

That's a really good option - they move a lot of water. Once again - good battery management is essential to safety on the water.

 

[Finished Business]

So a weekend away from the boat and not fishing on someone elses leaves me doing research...

Came across a really nice unit that people speak highly of, the Johnson Ultima Bilge switch. Patented technology in a fully sealed, non-mechanical bilge switch that sounds to have proven itself through various forum readings. It has a few second delay when detecting water so it doesn't engage in a pitching sea, with a little water splashing around.

Here's the unit coupled with a Johnson 2200 pump with 3 yr warrantee:
http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Pump-2200GPH-Ultima-Combo/dp/B005ZHWH68

Since Rule pumps are spoken most highly of, I did some digging on their higher volume pumps. Came across a recently released product, the "Gold Series" which carries a 5 year warrantee found hurr:
http://www.amazon.com/Rule-2000-Gold-Series-Bilge/dp/B0000AZ99Y

I like the idea of 3 pumps. I came across a post from the SailNet forums that made some sense,


"MesSailor

PS When it comes to bilge pumps remember "One is none. Two is one, and three is two. You should have at least two bilge pumps""

These are the pumps I am likely leaning towards, either one brand or a combination of the both after my research and member suggestions.

Auto Rule 800, Switched Johnson 1500,and Manual Rule 2000 or something along those lines...

Next would be to ensure I have the amperage to power it in the worst case scenario.
Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[Mighty Sylvan]

Can I add a 2nd pump with "Y" and use one discharge? Seems to me that while both pumps where running I would have more pressure out the through hull with no harm done.

 

[spring fever]

I don't think that is a good idea as unless your discharge pipe is not filled to capacity you will wind up with back-pressure thereby dropping your pumps efficiencyand thus volume. Also the idea of 2 pumps was to have 2 completly seperate systems in your idea you have a common discharge pipe-if disconnected or disabled-both pumps are toast. My 2 cents

 

[Foxsea]

Can I add a 2nd pump with "Y" and use one discharge? Seems to me that while both pumps where running I would have more pressure out the through hull with no harm done.

Fluid dynamics suggest that an undersized line (once 2 pumps are on it) will create the effect of "head" (yeah, yeah). Small centrifugal pumps like bilge pumps, will see flow rates drop rapidly as head increases - resistance.
.
So - bigger pumps, 2 foot head max., separate lines and discharges that are well above the water-line, with soft bends and NO elbows are called for. Bringing 2 properly sized discharge lines together to a wye just before the appropriately larger discharge thru-hull should be okay, though.