Antenna Length

SerengetiGuide

Well-Known Member
Quick questions guys. Does length of antenna for a vhf make a difference for strength and range? Had place buying from say no but I would think it would. 4ft digital vs 8ft Shakespeare Fiberglass antenna.

Thanks
David
 
I was told yes that it does. Longer the antenna that better the range, so went with the 8 ft. Have 2 VHF's and they both have 8 ft antennas. Antenna height, more than any other factor, determines how far you can transmit. An antenna mounted up high can “see” farther over the horizon.
 
I think the height you mount the antenna above the water is a bigger factor than the antenna length.
 
In theory a longer antenna will have more range but in practice, there's so many variables that length isn't a huge consideration.

Doubling the length of antenna might get you a dB of gain and gotten it a little bit higher of the ground plane but then it's probably also just gotten a little floppier, which can also interfere with transmission and reception.

I wouldn't worry about length too much.
 
Length, height and power - all make a difference - as sometimes corrosion on your fittings also reduces power transmission. The length - as a proportion of wavelength affects radiation pattern - which could affect how someone receives your signal - depending on where they intercept that pattern. However; power and height would be the ones I would worry about - as others have posted.
 
90% of tranmit signal gose strait up 90, and out the top to the ionasphere and bounces around till it finds a hole and comes back down to earth.10% transmits from the antena laterally to the horizon. so if your friend is aways away you could point your antena tip towards your friend and your friend would here you more clear.
 
The thing to remember is VHF is its virtually line of sight ( some minor bend) . So the main factor is the height you mount your antenna and the height of antenna on the vessel you're talking to. Kind of like climbing a tree or hill to see further. I think all marine radios used by the general public are 25 watt output so power isn't really a factor.
 
Here is a post I made to a different forum about antenna length and strength; (apologies about the length of post)

I am by no means an expert on VHF radios and matching a good antenna to it, but I looked at the specs of this antenna and a couple things concern me. First is it is only 4 ' long and second is the gain is only 3 dB. This is essentially a sailboat mast antenna designed for mounting at a height that far exceeds the length of the boat and a low gain to reduce horizon loss during the extreme pitch and roll that is experienced by an antenna mounted so high off the water. Unless you plan on running one antenna for AIS and another 8' - 6 dB gain antennae strictly for VHF, I would consider the following;

1. You want to fish 25 - 40 miles offshore for Tuna. Which means you will likely be going up to 60 miles offshore. I know because when you have gone 40 miles out and haven't found blue water and 61 degrees F, you WILL want to go further. :)

2. The antenna you are looking at is a low gain antenna that was not designed to reach those distances. As mentioned above it is designed for a sailboat mast. You will want an antenna that can power further (i.e. 6dB and be mounted lower). This will allow for greater range of transmission.

3. A longer antenna (i.e. 8 feet) will also bring in weaker signal form further away.

4. You will be mounting this antenna on your hardtop. If you aren't you might as well not mount one in the first place. Your signal (both Tx and Rx) needs as much LOS (line of sight) as possible. Mounting it anywhere else puts it in the way for use of the boat and you will always have superstructure (cabin) in the way of some of the signal.

I run two VHF radios, but not usually congruently. The 2nd one is simply a redundancy for safety. It became "surplus" when I went with an AIS receive VHF. So I decided that it wasn't in the way, and a 2nd antenna would not be an issue if I am not operating on both at the same time.



I copied the following article from Sport Fishing Magazine. It really puts into perspective all the terms and helps you look for exactly what you need for a sport fishing boat like that beauty you have now.

http://www.sportfishingmag.com/choos...ne-vhf-antenna

When shopping marine electronics, it’s easy to fall for a cool new multifunction display or even a VHF/AIS combo. But when it comes to shopping for parts such as transducers and antennas, where’s the love?
For anglers, the right VHF antenna could mean the difference between finding a great bite or enduring the skunk. On a more serious note, it could rescue you from a stranding or accident.
“If all things are equal — including antenna height and radio model — you could go from a range of 10 miles to 25-plus miles just based on the materials in the antenna,” says Chris Catoe, marine sales manager for the Shakespeare Antenna Group.
For that reason, most experts advise buying the best antenna you can afford. Prices range from about $30 to more than $300 for most recreational fishing vessels

elexdiagram.jpg

A 3dB gain antenna produces a larger signal pattern that doesn't travel as far as one with a 6 dB or 10 dB gain. The 3 dB signal doesn't leave the horizon as dramatically when the boat pitches.

At Shakespeare, VHF marine antennas are grouped into three categories that correlate to good, better and best products. Those categories are Classic, Galaxy and Phase III models. Key differences boil down to what’s inside, whether coaxial cable, a combination of coax, brass and copper, or all brass and copper; brass and copper create the greatest efficiency.
However, before dissecting antennas, anglers should understand just what an antenna is, says John Jones, vice president of engineering for Digital Antenna. “It’s a machine,” he says. “People think it’s a piece of wire. Anything we build is a physically resonant circuit for the frequencies we intend to use. An antenna converts electrical signals into photons — it’s a photon generator.”
Catoe says consumers often think, as well, that a VHF antenna transmits only from its tip. “It radiates from the base up,” he confirms.
Because of the energy surrounding the antenna and because the signals travel by line of sight, the antenna’s placement aboard a vessel is key. Even the best antenna won’t perform when placed too close to another antenna using similar frequencies (AIS or another VHF), or when mounted too low or too near metal objects.

Antenna Height
Digital Antenna's 8-foot 6 dB gain 500 Gold series VHF antenna (left), equipped with brass radiators, is a common choice for many fishing boat owners. The 16-footer (right) offers 10 dB gain and an easy-installation connector system that eliminates the need to solder.
Height and Strength
Other considerations for choosing the right VHF antenna include antenna height and gain. Catoe says the vast majority of powerboats in the 24- to 32-foot range do well using 8-foot antennas with 6-decibel (dB) gain. A 3- to 4-foot antenna that’s 3 dB is generally recommended for boats under 24 feet. Larger vessels can opt for 12- to 18-foot, 7 to 8 dB antennas.

“As a general rule, antenna height should be less than half the length of the boat,” Catoe says.
Higher-dB antennas generate greater effective radiated power, and that can translate into greater range. However, the lower-dB antennas, such as a 3 dB stick, are recommended for vessels like sailboats carrying antennas atop a tall mast that sways in high seas. The 3 dB antenna creates a larger signal pattern, but that pattern doesn’t travel as far, so it doesn’t leave the horizon as dramatically when the boat pitches.
Anglers who own VHF radios that are equipped with Automatic Identification System can use one VHF antenna for both functions as long as the AIS is receive-only. If your AIS unit also transmits, two antennas are necessary.
“We always recommend dedicated antennas for each,” Catoe says. “Any time you split something, you usually sacrifice something. Most people like to have both systems operating optimally.”

Durable Standard
In most cases, an angler breaks a VHF antenna before it dies of natural causes. “Antenna life span is hard to establish. Some last two years; some last 30,” Catoe says. “It depends on how you’re taking care of it, and which grade of antenna you purchased.”
Better antennas have UV blockers in the paint or they might be heavier-duty fiberglass or come with stainless steel rather than plastic mounts. Shakespeare recommends boaters wash their VHF antenna with soap and water whenever they wash the boat. Don’t use abrasive detergents that can strip the finish off the fiberglass. Some boaters apply wax, Catoe says, which will not interfere with the antenna function.

If you experience radio problems you think come from the antenna, you can always test the signal strength by calling a friend on another boat, Burden advises. Have that friend start fairly close and move away until the signal fades.
Shakespeare also sells an ART-3 antenna meter for about $100. That unit tests the voltage standing-wave ratio, the output power, battery voltage and the radio’s receiver. If the antenna is faulty, it can be replaced. Most antennas come with three- to five-year warranties.
When you buy a new antenna or replace an old one, chances are you won’t run into the tech creep that plagues other electronics types. Physics more or less defines the technology of an antenna, so it hasn’t changed much over time. Materials have changed a little, but “the biggest trend I’m seeing,” says Catoe, “is the combination of things: antennas or radios that have multifunctions (AIS and VHF together, or cellular and Wi-Fi). It’s all about centralizing all product in a smaller footprint.
 
Good post FA

Many salesmen have no knowledge of the products they sell and will say whatever it takes to make the sale.
 
This is true for way more that fishing stuff though. Salesmen are salesmen for a reason usually. Even most places that say they aren't commission based are not telling the whole truth. Most have at least incentives for selling more than the next guy, which leads to not telling the whole truth when asked by an unsuspecting "fisherman" wanting a new VHF radio antenna.

Oly
 
Hi...what about the far end? It's open circuit. What's the only thing that can exist at an open circuit? Only voltage, no current. Now if you imagine a quarter-wavelength of current and it's associated voltage along this leg of the dipole back to the centre, as the voltage is getting lower, the current is getting higher. Simple Ohm's law says that the impedance is dropping until we get right back to the centre where hopefully it's all current and no voltage. Of course that's not quite the case, there's is usually an insulator there or the very low impedance secondary of a transformer, just a few turns of wire.
 
EXCELLENT post, FA! 3 main factors contribute to range:
1/ Strength transmission (+25 watts - no corrosion on fittings, etc.),
2/ Height - as well described by other posters, and
3/ Length of antenna as compared to wavelengths - called harmonics. If the antenna is 1/2 or 1/4 wavelength (like handhelds) - the range and transmission pattern is reduced. The marine VHF has near 2m wavelengths.
 
Some excellent posts. Two more factors that effect signal strength are connections and coax length. Proper installation of the antenna requires careful routing of the coax cable so that it doesn't become damaged, deformed, or pinched. Try to minimize any sharp bends in the cable as well.

It is okay to cut coax if it is too long, however, you must make sure the antenna is at least 3ft from the radio. This is an almost universal requirement from most radio manufacturers. At any rate, you probably won't want the antenna that close to you when you transmit. If you decide not to cut the coax, you can loosely wrap up any excess into a large coil if you wish. Coax cable does present some signal loss, and that loss is greater the longer the coax is, so you can improve the performance of your system by ensuring you do not have excessive cable. This loss is highly dependant on the coax type being used, but a good rule-of-thumb for the RG-58 coax that is commonly used by antenna manufacturers is about -3dB loss for every 50ft. A -3dB loss halves the signal. Therefore, 50ft of coax would present a halving of the signal.

As others have mentioned, clean connections are a must. Clean up any corrosion and ensure the connectors are fully engaged. Do not kink the cable near the connection or elsewhere. If you cut a cable be sure to use an approved connector and solder or crimp it in place as recommended by the manufacturer.
 
Back before Sat. Phones and the current more common use of VHF radios with their greater transmitting power and logging truck frequencies for safety calling kilometres on logging roads, a group of friends and myself did a lot of hunting with quality CB radio systems with 4 watt output and SSB mode (12 watt equivalent output).

We developed a lot of expertise in getting max range out of those systems to keep in touch with each other over long distance. If someone did not make it back to camp and we could not reach them from camp, we drove up the 4x4 road to the top of the fire watch tower mountain close to camp and could always get them within a hundred miles or more. Besides a good transceiver and the best antenna available what was critical was the placement of the antenna on the vehicle and also that the antenna was correctly tuned to the transceiver. To that end the antenna had a set screw to allow micro adjustments in length and we used an antenna tuning meter to adjust the antenna for maximum efficiency so that the antenna system and the transceiver were perfectly tuned to each other. We could also move the antenna location and compare with the meter. This made a substantial difference in range, especially if an after market adjustable power mic and separate speaker were also used for clarity.

I don’t know a lot about marine VHF systems other than mine works great and with its 25 watts and quality antenna high on the roof, I have a clear signal and more than enough range for any place I am likely to be.

I have often wondered about our marine VHF radio systems and how to get max range out of them. I have not heard of people tuning marine antennas or even if there are tunable marine antenna systems available or if there would be any advantage in the much higher frequency range and greater transmit power compared to CB 27 mhz. Perhaps making marine antennas tuneable would make them more vulnerable to corrosion.

PS For emergency situations and safety in the CB radio days, eventually some bought power boosters, not us of course, since they are not legal to use. For the CB systems these were small magic boxes with a wide frequency range that had an on/off switch, ran on 12 volt vehicle power and had in and out antenna coax connectors. When off they allowed full pass through. They were usually hidden way up inside under the dash where you could not see them and just reach the on off switch, if you knew it was there. Hit that switch and whatever transmit wattage that went in (4 watt CB) came out at 50 watts, as in Hello Mexico at 27 mhz.
 
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